So 3 USPS used EPO in 1999 TdF.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Frankie and the mystery guy admitted to the NY Times to EPO use in the
1999 TdF.

Lance tested POSITIVE for EPO from the blood that was from the 1999
TdF. However, this was an experimental test, as there was no test back
then. So they stored the blood for now, and broke all proper protocol
on testing confidentiality, so Lance walks on a techno-cality.

For those keeping score at home.

Duped (once)

Three down, five to go?

B. Lafferty said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Frankie and the mystery guy admitted to the NY Times to EPO use in the
1999 TdF.

Lance tested POSITIVE for EPO from the blood that was from the 1999
TdF. However, this was an experimental test, as there was no test back
then. So they stored the blood for now, and broke all proper protocol
on testing confidentiality, so Lance walks on a techno-cality.

For those keeping score at home.

Duped (once)

Three down, five to go?

Straight from the horse's mouth...

"I'd never tested (at a race) above 50 percent, except before the start
of the '99 Tour," he said. "I told the team doctor 'don't worry, I've
got a certificate, I've got a hall-pass for this'," he recalled. "But
the doctor said it wasn't me they were worried about, it was that the
whole team was very close (to the 50 percent limit)." - Jonathan
Vaughters

So the natural average hematocit is low 40's yet here we have a whole
team close to 50 percent - what a coincidence!. You also have to ask
why this team had its own blood spinner to test hematocit when there
should be no reasonable need to do so. The only explanation is that
they were systematically doped and that they needed to check they were
under the 50% limit.

mrsixtypercent said:

why this team had its own blood spinner to test hematocit when there
should be no reasonable need to do so. The only explanation is that
they were systematically doped and that they needed to check they were
under the 50% limit.

Even if a team doesn't dope, a 'crit testing machine may be a sound
business investment.

--
E. Dronkert

B. Lafferty said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Frankie and the mystery guy admitted to the NY Times to EPO use in the
1999 TdF.

Lance tested POSITIVE for EPO from the blood that was from the 1999
TdF. However, this was an experimental test, as there was no test back
then. So they stored the blood for now, and broke all proper protocol
on testing confidentiality, so Lance walks on a techno-cality.

For those keeping score at home.

Duped (once)

Three down, five to go?

C'mon Lafferty, I thought you would know the difference between blood
and urine. I understand duped's confusion, I'm sure he's had his ass
kicked so often he pisses blood all the time.

"Ewoud Dronkert" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

mrsixtypercent said:

why this team had its own blood spinner to test hematocit when there
should be no reasonable need to do so. The only explanation is that
they were systematically doped and that they needed to check they were
under the 50% limit.

Even if a team doesn't dope, a 'crit testing machine may be a sound
business investment.

--
E. Dronkert

Perhaps before the first hematocrit test before the start of a 3 week race.
But we know that hematocrit goes down over the course of those three weeks,
so there really would be no need for the machine.That said, the whole
paradigm may shift if the rider ingests sufficient quantities of King Cake
during that three week period. No?

mrsixtypercent said:

So the natural average hematocit is low 40's yet here we have a whole
team close to 50 percent - what a coincidence!.

If the "average" for the population is low 40's, it can be expected that
top aerobic atheletes are top because of better physiology, ie higher
hematocrit.

Wayne Pein said:

If the "average" for the population is low 40's, it can be expected that
top aerobic atheletes are top because of better physiology, ie higher
hematocrit.

Increasing haematocrit in an individual is performance enhancing but I
wonder about the correlation between absolute values and performance. I
don't think it's strong.

--
E. Dronkert

Wayne Pein said:

mrsixtypercent said:

So the natural average hematocit is low 40's yet here we have a whole
team close to 50 percent - what a coincidence!.

If the "average" for the population is low 40's, it can be expected that
top aerobic atheletes are top because of better physiology, ie higher
hematocrit.

the usual effect of endurance training is to reduce hematocrit. so if
anything a population of bike racers who don't dope should have a lower
value than the normal population.

B. Lafferty said:

That said, the whole paradigm may shift if the rider ingests sufficient
quantities of King Cake during that three week period. No?

So King Cake washed down with Jack Daniels would make a good tour diet ?

Ewoud Dronkert said:

mrsixtypercent said:

why this team had its own blood spinner to test hematocit when there
should be no reasonable need to do so. The only explanation is that
they were systematically doped and that they needed to check they were
under the 50% limit.

Even if a team doesn't dope, a 'crit testing machine may be a sound
business investment.

--
E. Dronkert

As in:

"why would one use a radar detector unless they were planning on
speeding?"

-bdbafh

Ewoud Dronkert said:

Wayne Pein said:

If the "average" for the population is low 40's, it can be expected
that top aerobic atheletes are top because of better physiology, ie
higher hematocrit.

Increasing haematocrit in an individual is performance enhancing but I
wonder about the correlation between absolute values and performance. I
don't think it's strong.

Good point. Like caffeine.

"Donald Munro" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

B. Lafferty said:

That said, the whole paradigm may shift if the rider ingests sufficient
quantities of King Cake during that three week period. No?

So King Cake washed down with Jack Daniels would make a good tour diet ?

For some people, I guess.

mrsixtypercent said:

B. Lafferty said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Frankie and the mystery guy admitted to the NY Times to EPO use in the
1999 TdF.

Lance tested POSITIVE for EPO from the blood that was from the 1999
TdF. However, this was an experimental test, as there was no test back
then. So they stored the blood for now, and broke all proper protocol
on testing confidentiality, so Lance walks on a techno-cality.

For those keeping score at home.

Duped (once)

Three down, five to go?

Straight from the horse's mouth...

"I'd never tested (at a race) above 50 percent, except before the start
of the '99 Tour," he said. "I told the team doctor 'don't worry, I've
got a certificate, I've got a hall-pass for this'," he recalled. "But
the doctor said it wasn't me they were worried about, it was that the
whole team was very close (to the 50 percent limit)." - Jonathan
Vaughters

So the natural average hematocit is low 40's yet here we have a whole
team close to 50 percent - what a coincidence!. You also have to ask
why this team had its own blood spinner to test hematocit when there
should be no reasonable need to do so. The only explanation is that
they were systematically doped and that they needed to check they were
under the 50% limit.

We can certainly assume that is why the team uses them, but they can
always claim that is was for internal enforcement of the 50% rule.
Funny though, because the riders do not get together very often, except
for the actual races.

mrsixtypercent said:

B. Lafferty said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Frankie and the mystery guy admitted to the NY Times to EPO use in the
1999 TdF.

Lance tested POSITIVE for EPO from the blood that was from the 1999
TdF. However, this was an experimental test, as there was no test back
then. So they stored the blood for now, and broke all proper protocol
on testing confidentiality, so Lance walks on a techno-cality.

For those keeping score at home.

Duped (once)

Three down, five to go?

Straight from the horse's mouth...

"I'd never tested (at a race) above 50 percent, except before the start
of the '99 Tour," he said. "I told the team doctor 'don't worry, I've
got a certificate, I've got a hall-pass for this'," he recalled. "But
the doctor said it wasn't me they were worried about, it was that the
whole team was very close (to the 50 percent limit)." - Jonathan
Vaughters

So the natural average hematocit is low 40's yet here we have a whole
team close to 50 percent - what a coincidence!. You also have to ask
why this team had its own blood spinner to test hematocit when there
should be no reasonable need to do so. The only explanation is that
they were systematically doped and that they needed to check they were
under the 50% limit.

But you can raise your hematocrit without doping, yes? By training at
altitude or using an altitude tent?

~bob

In article <[email hidden]>,

B. Lafferty said:

"Ewoud Dronkert" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

mrsixtypercent said:

why this team had its own blood spinner to test hematocit when there
should be no reasonable need to do so. The only explanation is that
they were systematically doped and that they needed to check they were
under the 50% limit.

Even if a team doesn't dope, a 'crit testing machine may be a sound
business investment.

--
E. Dronkert

Perhaps before the first hematocrit test before the start of a 3 week race.
But we know that hematocrit goes down over the course of those three weeks,
so there really would be no need for the machine.That said, the whole
paradigm may shift if the rider ingests sufficient quantities of King Cake
during that three week period. No?

I guess it would depend on what they made the trinket in the cake out of, if you
know what I mean...

--
tanx,
Howard

Never take a tenant with a monkey.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

Wayne Pein said:

mrsixtypercent said:

So the natural average hematocit is low 40's yet here we have a whole
team close to 50 percent - what a coincidence!.

If the "average" for the population is low 40's, it can be expected that
top aerobic atheletes are top because of better physiology, ie higher
hematocrit.

the usual effect of endurance training is to reduce hematocrit. so if
anything a population of bike racers who don't dope should have a lower
value than the normal population.

Perhaps the toip level athletes start out with higher values, and eventually drop
down to a level closer to the societal norm.

--
tanx,
Howard

Never take a tenant with a monkey.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

Quoted message said:

Wayne Pein said:

mrsixtypercent said:

So the natural average hematocit is low 40's yet here we have a whole
team close to 50 percent - what a coincidence!.

If the "average" for the population is low 40's, it can be expected that
top aerobic atheletes are top because of better physiology, ie higher
hematocrit.

the usual effect of endurance training is to reduce hematocrit. so if
anything a population of bike racers who don't dope should have a lower
value than the normal population.

But they are selected form a portion of the population with higher HCT.

Ron

B. Lafferty said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

That said, the whole paradigm may shift if the rider ingests sufficient
quantities of King Cake during that three week period. No?

Donald Munro said:

Quoted message said:

So King Cake washed down with Jack Daniels would make a good tour diet ?

B. Lafferty said:

For some people, I guess.

Speaking of King cakes, when does the next Ullrich weight competition
start ?

quote='bob sullivan'mrsixtypercent said:

B. Lafferty said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Frankie and the mystery guy admitted to the NY Times to EPO use in the
1999 TdF.

Lance tested POSITIVE for EPO from the blood that was from the 1999
TdF. However, this was an experimental test, as there was no test back
then. So they stored the blood for now, and broke all proper protocol
on testing confidentiality, so Lance walks on a techno-cality.

For those keeping score at home.

Duped (once)

Three down, five to go?

Straight from the horse's mouth...

"I'd never tested (at a race) above 50 percent, except before the start
of the '99 Tour," he said. "I told the team doctor 'don't worry, I've
got a certificate, I've got a hall-pass for this'," he recalled. "But
the doctor said it wasn't me they were worried about, it was that the
whole team was very close (to the 50 percent limit)." - Jonathan
Vaughters

So the natural average hematocit is low 40's yet here we have a whole
team close to 50 percent - what a coincidence!. You also have to ask
why this team had its own blood spinner to test hematocit when there
should be no reasonable need to do so. The only explanation is that
they were systematically doped and that they needed to check they were
under the 50% limit.

But you can raise your hematocrit without doping, yes? By training at
altitude or using an altitude tent?

~bob[/QUOTE]

With altitude training, the nondoping cyclist are going to be above 45 %.