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Driving Licence Endorsements. Do NOT Apply To Cyclists

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01 / Original postDriving Licence Endorsements. Do NOT Apply To CyclistsEmail address hidden · 17 Sep 2006 02 / This pagePosts 1–11Page 1 of 1 · chronological order 03 / Latest replyPost #11Alan Braggins · 18 Sep 2006

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UK and Europe
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17 September 2006
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18 September 2006
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  1. Original post
    Email address hidden
    Archived post
    #1

    The current Cyclists being Nicked In London thread has several posts
    concerning whether or not a persons driving licence can be endorsed for
    an offence committed while cycling. The general consensus being that it
    can't but nobody knowing where it says so. Rather than add to that
    thread I decided to post this answer as a new thread as this question
    seems to get raised from time to time.
    After a bit of digging I find the relevent Act is The Road Traffic
    Offenders Act 1988 which is available online
    http://www.opsi.gov.uk/ACTS/acts1988/Ukpga_19880053_en_3.htm#mdiv28

    Section 28 says
    "Penalty points to be attributed to an offence.

    28.-(1) Where a person is convicted of an offence involving
    obligatory or discretionary disqualification, the number of penalty
    points to be attributed to the offence, subject to subsection (2)
    below, is-

    (a) in the case of an offence under a provision of the Traffic
    Acts specified in column 1 of Part I of Schedule 2 to this Act "

    So click on schedule 2 and scroll down to RTA section 36.(which covers
    traffic light offences)
    The relevent phrase there is
    "Discretionary, if committed in respect of a MOTOR VEHICLE by failure
    to comply with an indication given by a sign specified for the purposes
    of this paragraph in regulations under RTA section 36." (my capitals
    for motor vehicle)
    So the Act is clearly indicating that disqualification which can
    result from penalty points totting up can only apply to motor vehicle
    users. So fail to comply with a traffic light in a motor vehicle your
    licence is endorsed.
    Fail to comply on a cycle No endorsement. Simple!

    As an aside the right hand column shows the number of penalty points.
    Normally 3 as we all know but for example 6 to 8 for no insurance etc.
    And no points shown for cycling only offences like RTA 1988 sections 28
    - 32 bcause your licence can not be endorsed for cycling offences..

    Iain

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  2. Tony Raven
    Archived post
    #2

    [email hidden] wrote on 17/09/2006 01:24 +0100:

    Quoted message said:


    As an aside the right hand column shows the number of penalty points.
    Normally 3 as we all know but for example 6 to 8 for no insurance etc.
    And no points shown for cycling only offences like RTA 1988 sections 28
    - 32 bcause your licence can not be endorsed for cycling offences..

    OTOH you could apparently get points on your driving license as a
    cyclist for "An offence under section 25 of the Theft Act 1968 (going
    equipped for stealing, etc.) committed with reference to the theft or
    taking of motor vehicles." ;-)

    --
    Tony

    "Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
    his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
    - Leonardo da Vinci

    Report
  3. David Martin
    Archived post
    #3
    Tony Raven said:

    [email hidden] wrote on 17/09/2006 01:24 +0100:

    Quoted message said:


    As an aside the right hand column shows the number of penalty points.
    Normally 3 as we all know but for example 6 to 8 for no insurance etc.
    And no points shown for cycling only offences like RTA 1988 sections 28
    - 32 bcause your licence can not be endorsed for cycling offences..

    OTOH you could apparently get points on your driving license as a
    cyclist for "An offence under section 25 of the Theft Act 1968 (going
    equipped for stealing, etc.) committed with reference to the theft or
    taking of motor vehicles." ;-)

    Surely that is as a motorist riding a bike ;-)

    ...d

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  4. Tony Raven
    Archived post
    #4

    David Martin wrote on 17/09/2006 08:57 +0100:

    Quoted message said:
    Tony Raven said:

    [email hidden] wrote on 17/09/2006 01:24 +0100:

    Quoted message said:

    As an aside the right hand column shows the number of penalty points.
    Normally 3 as we all know but for example 6 to 8 for no insurance etc.
    And no points shown for cycling only offences like RTA 1988 sections 28
    - 32 bcause your licence can not be endorsed for cycling offences..


    OTOH you could apparently get points on your driving license as a
    cyclist for "An offence under section 25 of the Theft Act 1968 (going
    equipped for stealing, etc.) committed with reference to the theft or
    taking of motor vehicles." ;-)

    Surely that is as a motorist riding a bike ;-)

    A MOB you mean?

    Interesting you get twice as many points for trying to steal a car as
    you do for manslaughter or culpable homicide with a car.
    (bottom of
    http://www.opsi.gov.uk/ACTS/acts1988/Ukpga_19880053_en_7.htm#sdiv2)

    --
    Tony

    "Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
    his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
    - Leonardo da Vinci

    Report
  5. naked_draughtsman
    Archived post
    #5
    Tony Raven said:

    [email hidden] wrote on 17/09/2006 01:24 +0100:

    Quoted message said:


    As an aside the right hand column shows the number of penalty points.
    Normally 3 as we all know but for example 6 to 8 for no insurance etc.
    And no points shown for cycling only offences like RTA 1988 sections 28
    - 32 bcause your licence can not be endorsed for cycling offences..

    OTOH you could apparently get points on your driving license as a
    cyclist for "An offence under section 25 of the Theft Act 1968 (going
    equipped for stealing, etc.) committed with reference to the theft or

    The document is an interesting insight into our legal system:

    "Driving without a licence - 2 points on licence" (if I've read the
    table correctly)

    peter

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  6. Email address hidden
    Archived post
    #6
    naked_draughtsman said:

    "Driving without a licence - 2 points on licence" (if I've read the
    table correctly)

    DVLA create a Driver Record for any non licence holder convicted of an
    endorsable offence so it is possible for people to don't have a licence
    to be given points which will show up if they obtain a licence before
    the points are expired.

    Iain

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  7. Email address hidden
    Archived post
    #7
    Quoted message said:
    naked_draughtsman said:

    "Driving without a licence - 2 points on licence" (if I've read the
    table correctly)

    My brain is getting sore reading this stuff so I will just add one more
    clarification.
    Sec 87 of the RTA 1988 was amended by the RTA 1991. One changed
    being that section 87 covering driving licences was amended to
    17.-(1) In subsection (1) of section 87 of the Road Traffic Act
    1988 (offence for person to drive if he is not the holder of a licence)
    for the words "if he is not the holder of" there shall be substituted
    the words "otherwise than in accordance with".

    In practice this means that for example a learner driver with a
    provisional licence who is otherwise legal and has a qualified driver
    etc but is not showing L plates would also be charged under sect 87 for
    not complying with the condition of the licence (to display L plates).
    This would be the type of scenario where he might get away with a 2
    point endorsement.
    Driving without holding any licence licence invalidates any insurance
    as well so the driver who has no licence at all will get at least 6
    points for the no insurance offence.
    Iain

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  8. Pete Whelan
    Archived post
    #8
    Tony Raven said:

    David Martin wrote on 17/09/2006 08:57 +0100:

    Quoted message said:
    Tony Raven said:

    [email hidden] wrote on 17/09/2006 01:24 +0100:

    > As an aside the right hand column shows the number of penalty points.
    > Normally 3 as we all know but for example 6 to 8 for no insurance etc.
    > And no points shown for cycling only offences like RTA 1988 sections 28
    > - 32 bcause your licence can not be endorsed for cycling offences..
    >
    OTOH you could apparently get points on your driving license as a
    cyclist for "An offence under section 25 of the Theft Act 1968 (going
    equipped for stealing, etc.) committed with reference to the theft or
    taking of motor vehicles." ;-)

    Surely that is as a motorist riding a bike ;-)

    A MOB you mean?

    Interesting you get twice as many points for trying to steal a car as
    you do for manslaughter or culpable homicide with a car.
    (bottom of
    http://www.opsi.gov.uk/ACTS/acts1988/Ukpga_19880053_en_7.htm#sdiv2)

    shirley that is infinitely more than the ther offence, which carries no
    points

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  9. ian henden
    Archived post
    #9

    "naked_draughtsman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Tony Raven said:

    [email hidden] wrote on 17/09/2006 01:24 +0100:

    Quoted message said:


    As an aside the right hand column shows the number of penalty points.
    Normally 3 as we all know but for example 6 to 8 for no insurance etc.
    And no points shown for cycling only offences like RTA 1988 sections 28
    - 32 bcause your licence can not be endorsed for cycling offences..

    OTOH you could apparently get points on your driving license as a
    cyclist for "An offence under section 25 of the Theft Act 1968 (going
    equipped for stealing, etc.) committed with reference to the theft or

    The document is an interesting insight into our legal system:

    "Driving without a licence - 2 points on licence" (if I've read the
    table correctly)


    As has been pointed out to those bereft of brain cell on previous occasions,
    the awarding of points has the effect of those points going on the
    individual's record (which will be created if he does not already have one)
    at DVLA. They will then be added to a licence should one be issued at some
    time in the future (if the points are still "live"😉.

    Thus someone accruing points at, say, age 15, might find themselves
    disbarred from even obtaining a licence for some years past the minimum age
    for holding a licence.

    Simple.

    Report
  10. POHB
    Archived post
    #10
    ian henden said:

    Thus someone accruing points at, say, age 15, might find themselves
    disbarred from even obtaining a licence for some years past the minimum age
    for holding a licence.


    Happened to a mate at school. He was nicked for riding an illegal
    moped on the road so his first license had points when he got it.

    Report
  11. Alan Braggins
    Archived post
    #11
    David Martin said:
    Tony Raven said:

    [email hidden] wrote on 17/09/2006 01:24 +0100:

    Quoted message said:


    As an aside the right hand column shows the number of penalty points.
    Normally 3 as we all know but for example 6 to 8 for no insurance etc.
    And no points shown for cycling only offences like RTA 1988 sections 28
    - 32 bcause your licence can not be endorsed for cycling offences..

    OTOH you could apparently get points on your driving license as a
    cyclist for "An offence under section 25 of the Theft Act 1968 (going
    equipped for stealing, etc.) committed with reference to the theft or
    taking of motor vehicles." ;-)

    Surely that is as a motorist riding a bike ;-)

    You could be a non-motorist cyclist going equipped but planning on a mate
    who doesn't have the tools but can drive driving once you had broken in....

    Report

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