Good value in tensiometer?

Mike Elliott said:

Subject pretty much sez it all.

-- mike elliott

Dear Mike,

Here's what Sheldon says about the Park gauge:

http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/tools/wheel.html#tensiometers

Mine works fine.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Quoted message said:

Mike Elliott said:

Subject pretty much sez it all.

-- mike elliott

Dear Mike,

Here's what Sheldon says about the Park gauge:

http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/tools/wheel.html#tensiometers

Mine works fine.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Agree about the quality of the Park tensiometer. Disagree about the
$79.99 price; they're ~$55 at Nashbar, etc. That's a huge difference!

Mike Elliott said:

Subject pretty much sez it all.

-- mike elliott

I can't imagine needing one unless I were a professional wheel builder
working on insanely expensive boutique wheels. I use my hand to squeeze
the spokes in pairs to determine tension. This won't give you a digital
readout but it works for me.

"Kenny" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mike Elliott said:

Subject pretty much sez it all.

-- mike elliott

I can't imagine needing one unless I were a professional wheel builder
working on insanely expensive boutique wheels. I use my hand to squeeze
the spokes in pairs to determine tension. This won't give you a digital
readout but it works for me.

How accurate do you think that you get? It would be interesting to do a
test against an accurate tensiometer.

Frank Drackman said:

"Kenny" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mike Elliott said:

Subject pretty much sez it all.

-- mike elliott

I can't imagine needing one unless I were a professional wheel builder
working on insanely expensive boutique wheels. I use my hand to squeeze
the spokes in pairs to determine tension. This won't give you a digital
readout but it works for me.

How accurate do you think that you get? It would be interesting to do a
test against an accurate tensiometer.

And how accurate does one need to be?

Kenny said:

Mike Elliott said:

Subject pretty much sez it all.

-- mike elliott

I can't imagine needing one unless I were a professional wheel builder
working on insanely expensive boutique wheels. I use my hand to squeeze
the spokes in pairs to determine tension. This won't give you a digital
readout but it works for me.

Actually, that is a digital readout.

--
Joe Riel

Joe Riel said:

Kenny said:

Mike Elliott said:

Subject pretty much sez it all.

-- mike elliott

I can't imagine needing one unless I were a professional wheel builder
working on insanely expensive boutique wheels. I use my hand to squeeze
the spokes in pairs to determine tension. This won't give you a digital
readout but it works for me.

Actually, that is a digital readout.

Dear Joe,

Best reply this week.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Mike Elliott said:

Subject pretty much sez it all.

-- mike elliott

Dear Mike,

Here's what Sheldon says about the Park gauge:

http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/tools/wheel.html#tensiometers

Mine works fine.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Agree about the quality of the Park tensiometer. Disagree about the
$79.99 price; they're ~$55 at Nashbar, etc. That's a huge difference!

I have a Park tensiometer too, and it works fine for my putposes. One of
these days I'll get one of those high end ones too.

Mike Elliott said:

Subject pretty much sez it all.

-- mike elliott

Park one is useable, Wheelsmith a wee bit better..the Cadillac is DT
Dial one, the Porsche is the digital DT one...Another nice one is from
FSA but have never even seen that one. $65 or so to $400+

Mike Rocket J Squirrel said:

Frank Drackman said:

"Kenny" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mike Elliott wrote:
> Subject pretty much sez it all.
>
> -- mike elliott
I can't imagine needing one unless I were a professional wheel builder
working on insanely expensive boutique wheels. I use my hand to squeeze
the spokes in pairs to determine tension. This won't give you a digital
readout but it works for me.

How accurate do you think that you get? It would be interesting to do a
test against an accurate tensiometer.

And how accurate does one need to be?

IMO, especially for someone who does not build wheels regularly,
absolute tension accuracy is less important than having the ability to
read the relative tension differences from spoke to spoke. Experieced
builders may (or may not) be able to guage tension uniformity by
"plucking" the spokes and listening for differences in tone, but
novices have a great deal of difficulty doing this.

Bottom line, IMO, the Park Tensiometer, available for about $55, is a
good tool and a good value that will help you build better wheels.

There are several on eBay for $50 (plus shipping).
Kerry

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Mike Elliott said:

Subject pretty much sez it all.

-- mike elliott

Dear Mike,

Here's what Sheldon says about the Park gauge:

http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/tools/wheel.html#tensiometers

Mine works fine.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Agree about the quality of the Park tensiometer. Disagree about the
$79.99 price; they're ~$55 at Nashbar, etc. That's a huge difference!

"Kenny" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mike Elliott said:

Subject pretty much sez it all.

-- mike elliott

I can't imagine needing one unless I were a professional wheel

builder

Quoted message said:

working on insanely expensive boutique wheels. I use my hand to

squeeze

Quoted message said:

the spokes in pairs to determine tension. This won't give you a

digital

Quoted message said:

readout but it works for me.

Measuring tension by squeezing the wheel really only gets you so
far. Back in the days of ModE/14/15g/36H/3X/120mm wheels you
would just wind up the spokes as tight as they would go before
the rim deformed. The spokes on wheels I built back then were
typically rock hard according to my squeeze-o-meter. Nowadays
with low spoke count rims and (what I consider) excessive dish,
you can generate tensions that will not make the spokes rock
hard, will not deform the rim but will crack the spoke holes. I
use a tensiometer to get the "industry standard" acceptable
tension (about 100Kgf) and then work from there. A lot of times,
100 kgf will not keep a wheel true for me with a light rim
because of my weight, so I up the tension and then I watch the
spoke holes. My squeeze-o-meter is still good for old tech, but
I rely on the tensiometer for the new tech. -- Jay Beattie.

Kenny said:

Mike Elliott said:

Subject pretty much sez it all.

-- mike elliott

I can't imagine needing one unless I were a professional wheel builder

agree

Quoted message said:

working on insanely expensive boutique wheels

Ya need one even for low end wheels, built well...

I use my hand to squeeze

Quoted message said:

the spokes in pairs to determine tension. This won't give you a digital
readout but it works for me.

Quoted message said:

IMO, especially for someone who does not build wheels regularly,
absolute tension accuracy is less important than having the ability to
read the relative tension differences from spoke to spoke. Experieced
builders may (or may not) be able to guage tension uniformity by
"plucking" the spokes and listening for differences in tone, but
novices have a great deal of difficulty doing this.

It's exactly the other way around. It's very easy even for a first-timer
to tell tension differences by plucking the spokes. If you're tone deaf
it will be difficult and exercise won't help.

It is the absolute tension where the tensiometer is particularly useful
for a beginner, because it's otherwise almost impossible tell what the
tension is. A professional builder can probably find the correct
absolute tension from experience by listening to the tone, or he can
compare the tension to another wheel with known tension.

-as

Qui si parla Campagnolo aka Peter Chisholm said:

Mike Elliott said:

Subject pretty much sez it all.

-- mike elliott

Park one is useable, Wheelsmith a wee bit better..the Cadillac is DT
Dial one, the Porsche is the digital DT one...Another nice one is from
FSA but have never even seen that one. $65 or so to $400+

Where is the "Honda/Toyota" tensiometer - low cost and high
reliability?

--
Tom Sherman - Here, not there.

Antti Salonen said:

Quoted message said:

IMO, especially for someone who does not build wheels regularly,
absolute tension accuracy is less important than having the ability to
read the relative tension differences from spoke to spoke. Experieced
builders may (or may not) be able to guage tension uniformity by
"plucking" the spokes and listening for differences in tone, but
novices have a great deal of difficulty doing this.

It's exactly the other way around. It's very easy even for a first-timer
to tell tension differences by plucking the spokes. If you're tone deaf
it will be difficult and exercise won't help.

It is the absolute tension where the tensiometer is particularly useful
for a beginner, because it's otherwise almost impossible tell what the
tension is. A professional builder can probably find the correct
absolute tension from experience by listening to the tone, or he can
compare the tension to another wheel with known tension.

I cannot and don't even try, after 22 years and 'lots' of wheels built.
When I hear about 'pros' who can tell torque and spoke tension with
their 'hands', I just wanna giggle. If my car wrench said he tells
cylinder head torque by 'feel', I'm going somewhere else.

Quoted message said:

-as

In article <[email hidden]>,

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Antti Salonen said:

Quoted message said:

IMO, especially for someone who does not build wheels regularly,
absolute tension accuracy is less important than having the ability to
read the relative tension differences from spoke to spoke. Experieced
builders may (or may not) be able to guage tension uniformity by
"plucking" the spokes and listening for differences in tone, but
novices have a great deal of difficulty doing this.

It's exactly the other way around. It's very easy even for a first-timer
to tell tension differences by plucking the spokes. If you're tone deaf
it will be difficult and exercise won't help.

It is the absolute tension where the tensiometer is particularly useful
for a beginner, because it's otherwise almost impossible tell what the
tension is. A professional builder can probably find the correct
absolute tension from experience by listening to the tone, or he can
compare the tension to another wheel with known tension.

I cannot and don't even try, after 22 years and 'lots' of wheels built.
When I hear about 'pros' who can tell torque and spoke tension with
their 'hands', I just wanna giggle. If my car wrench said he tells
cylinder head torque by 'feel', I'm going somewhere else.

LOL! Me, too.

Plucking the spokes is way faster than fiddling with a tensiometer. I
use my tensiometer to check the tension on one spoke, I think of it as
the "master spoke" and then pluck the other spokes to compare tension.
I am also a guitarist, so the tone method seems very natural to me.
There are too many variables to tell what the absolute tension is by
plucking, but relative tension is easy to discern. Therefore I use the
tensiometer to determine absolute tension and plucking to determine
relative tension.

Tim McNamara said:

Plucking the spokes is way faster than fiddling with a tensiometer. I
use my tensiometer to check the tension on one spoke, I think of it as
the "master spoke" and then pluck the other spokes to compare tension.
I am also a guitarist, so the tone method seems very natural to me.
There are too many variables to tell what the absolute tension is by
plucking, but relative tension is easy to discern. Therefore I use the
tensiometer to determine absolute tension and plucking to determine
relative tension.

I wonder if you could use a $20 Korg tuner or similar to check
relative tension.

Peter Chisholm said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

IMO, especially for someone who does not build wheels regularly,
absolute tension accuracy is less important than having the
ability to read the relative tension differences from spoke to
spoke. Experienced builders may (or may not) be able to gauge
tension uniformity by "plucking" the spokes and listening for
differences in tone, but novices have a great deal of difficulty
doing this.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It's exactly the other way around. It's very easy even for a
first-timer to tell tension differences by plucking the spokes. If
you're tone deaf it will be difficult and exercise won't help.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It is the absolute tension where the tensiometer is particularly
useful for a beginner, because it's otherwise almost impossible
tell what the tension is. A professional builder can probably find
the correct absolute tension from experience by listening to the
tone, or he can compare the tension to another wheel with known
tension.

Quoted message said:

I cannot and don't even try, after 22 years and 'lots' of wheels
built. When I hear about 'pros' who can tell torque and spoke
tension with their 'hands', I just wanna giggle. If my car wrench
said he tells cylinder head torque by 'feel', I'm going somewhere
else.

That doesn't mean there aren't mechanics who have such sensitivity. A
study done on experienced mechanics tightening screws of various sizes
showed that they correctly tightened those that are small enough to
cause failure up to 12mm bolts and above that most said they relied on
torque wrenches.

The reason for this was obvious in that stripping threads or breaking
screws gave one a good sense of reasonable tightness. These men, no
doubt, started doing this in early youth and developed good
reliability. Similarly, I believe there are people who consistently
tension spokes properly when they work with a fixed numbers of spokes
per wheel like 32 or 36. I've repaired enough wheels on the road to
not have any qualms about having reasonable high spoke tension without
instruments. My tensiometer was designed for the purpose of writing
about spokes, not for my personal use, and I don't use it when
building wheels.

Pumping tires with a frame pump invariably results in lower that ideal
pressure because it it tedious and tiring, so one quits pumping as
soon as the tire is "hard enough". Besides after much pumping the
squeeze of the thumb isn't all that strong anymore. This is an easily
correctable condition.

Jobst Brandt