Experience and age in crits

Interesting point. Could be the races are shorter and require less training time. Most older guys have limited time for training, so maybe the crits are the right distance. I'm 41, but prefer the long road races, but do just fine in crits, as my 16 years of experience tells me when to make the efforts. Hmmm....

What do you think?

couple things:
1. a great rider will slow down only slightly with age. look at Mt Washington - Ned Overend got second to Tyler Hamilton. Around here, 45-50 year olds regularly annihilate the 20's and 30's in the crits. What they've lost in speed/youth they make up with good, solid genetics and a comprehensive understanding of what is required to do well in a race.

2. when I last raced in Belgium (very briefly), there was talk of the doping that goes on at the amateurs, due to the non-existance of dope controls. Some riders from a lowland country asked me at a NY race if there were dope controls at a particular race. They ended up getting a lot of the prize money. Apparently they were in the US because they'd been suspended in their home country for doping. And although you're supposed to have a letter saying you're allowed to race in a foreign country (to prevent dopers from racing somewhere else), I was never asked for mine in Belgium and I've never seen a UCI license holder ever asked for theirs in a domestic (US) non-UCI race.

Because of the distance the old guys still have the fitness level.

The experience, crafty lessons, wheel sucking whatever you want to call it is worth a couple of hundred hours of training.

Lots of the top level guys would not be doing the smaller crits in belgium where in the US you'd be competing against some top level guys at even smaller crits. That makes a difference when the hammer goes down.

BullGod said:

I've noticed round here (NL and Belgium) that in the amateur ranks the guys who are the best in the crits tend to be older....often late 30's to mid 40's...Obviously experience counts for a lot, but is there something about the nature of a crit that makes it more suitable for the physical capabilites of a rider closer to 40 than 20?

I mean for example I know elite amateurs in their mid 40's who enter elite level crits with the young Dutch pros of the future and still get top 10 finishes despite being more than 20 years older....

any ideas?

YMCA said:

Interesting point. Could be the races are shorter and require less training time.

What do you think?

I think I hope you're right. :-)
At 40, I've got my first crit in 23 years next weekend and haven't been putting in big miles lately, more short, quality sessions... short races always suited me, as I was always a sprinter - couldn't see the point doing a long race when the only bit I was interested in was the last half a mile! I'm hoping that still applies.

I should have been racing all this year but bust my knee in a motorycle racetrack crash in May, so it's been a frustrating year. Hopefully this weekend will at least salvage something from the season - even if I get blown away, it'll still be good to be back in a bunch again. The meeting's at the circuit in the UK (Eastway) where I used to race virtually every weekend in the early eighties, and this is the last meeting ever before the bulldozers turn up, so it should be a nostalgia-fest.

Eastway82 said:

I think I hope you're right. :-)
At 40, I've got my first crit in 23 years next weekend and haven't been putting in big miles lately, more short, quality sessions... short races always suited me, as I was always a sprinter - couldn't see the point doing a long race when the only bit I was interested in was the last half a mile! I'm hoping that still applies.

I should have been racing all this year but bust my knee in a motorycle racetrack crash in May, so it's been a frustrating year. Hopefully this weekend will at least salvage something from the season - even if I get blown away, it'll still be good to be back in a bunch again. The meeting's at the circuit in the UK (Eastway) where I used to race virtually every weekend in the early eighties, and this is the last meeting ever before the bulldozers turn up, so it should be a nostalgia-fest.

I think the reason lots of older riders can do well in crits is related to the shorter distance but the main factor for me is the experience of riding crits week in week out for 20 years +.

I think you might find it hard going back to a crit after 23 years not racing....but that of course depends on your fitness, general savvy and how good the other guys are and how fast they want to go.

I think it als depends on the way the race pans out. On saturday I rode a local race nr Amsterdam and it was raining so only 25 guys showed up. Normally there is a big bunch of 80 riders taking it easy with some of the younger guys trying to ride in breaks or pulling the bunch along up front. It's much easier for less fit riders to stay out the draft in a big compact bunch than in a single file, and the big bunch can go at 42km/h much easier than a breakaway of 4 riders up the road. so the older guys hang on near the back in a big bunch and move up to the front when the pace slows, to give them some room when the pace goes up again.

On saturday the small amount of participants meant the "race" broke up into several small groups of 4-5 riders in single file, and I did notice (I was in the front group) that we were soon lapping older guys who had been dropped whom I usually see hanging on in the bunch until near the end. Some of them had gome home after 30 minutes.

My conclusion is knowing what you're doing in a big bunch and being an expert in saving energy and making up for your physical limitations can get you a long way.

BullGod said:

I think it als depends on the way the race pans out. On saturday I rode a local race nr Amsterdam and it was raining so only 25 guys showed up. Normally there is a big bunch of 80 riders taking it easy with some of the younger guys trying to ride in breaks or pulling the bunch along up front. It's much easier for less fit riders to stay out the draft in a big compact bunch than in a single file, and the big bunch can go at 42km/h much easier than a breakaway of 4 riders up the road. so the older guys hang on near the back in a big bunch and move up to the front when the pace slows, to give them some room when the pace goes up again.

My conclusion is knowing what you're doing in a big bunch and being an expert in saving energy and making up for your physical limitations can get you a long way.

That's what I'm hoping for - this will be a field of around 100 starters, so I'm hoping to be able to stay out of trouble (and out of the wind). No problems riding in a bunch - did a couple of cyclo-sportives here last year and although I wasn't fit enough at that point to hang in there 'til the end (they're supposedly non-competitive, but they tend to average over 40km/h here), I had no problems with riding within the bunch – it all came back to me pretty quick. I'll let you know how I get on.

so how did it go?

BullGod said:

so how did it go?

Well, I got blown away, but I enjoyed myself! :-)
I did two crits, one saturday, the other sunday. The circuit's got one proper hill and one short one followed by a drag into the wind up the finish straight every lap so it's hard, with not much in the way of recovery time.
Saturday was a bit mental. 98 starters, and I was virtually last off the line. It went off like a rocket from the start (first lap 37kmh from a standing start, then between 38-39), and being at the back meant it was doubly hard as I was trying to move up whilst also having to close other people's gaps. I knew I wouldn't be able to hang in there too long, but I kept it up for ten laps or so before three bikes went down, and in the aftermath someone a few bikes in front let a big gap open and that was it. I closed the gap but then had nothing left. Once I was dropped, the headwind up the hill and on the main straight were killers, so I just cruised round the rest of the race (it was only 50 minutes total, but it felt longer!).
Sunday I was back to the same place, but this time there were only 20 starters. Mindful of the day before, I was second into the first (very) tight turn and tried to stay as near as I could to the front. However there were a couple of second cats riding who wanted to stir things up, and so again the pace shot straight up to 38-39kph average. I was a lot better at getting back on the power out of the bends and keeping in tight formation, but it was still too fast for me to sustain, so I cheekily went through for an extended turn at the front and slowed the whole thing down and gave myself a breather for a lap,which helped! Then they sussed my plan, and it kicked off again. After about ten laps, I was getting closer to the back of the group, when my teammate disappeared from my wheel. We'd agreed that when (it was always going to when, not if!) we got dropped, we'd hook up and ride the rest together rather than plod on individually as we'd done the day before. So I sat up, let the bunch go and waited for him. Except he didn't turn up. Then I realised I'd heard a loud bang just before I noticed he was gone, and I thought he might have crashed - it was really slippery, with intermittent showers. Next lap I found him walking in and stopped to see if he was ok. Turned out he'd blown his rear tyre on some debris. He looked so disappointed that in the end I gave him my bike so he could finish – I'd had my fun sticking in the bunch as long as could, and if either of us was going to have a lonely ride to finish, I'd far rather it was him! At the point when I sat up to wait for him, I could probably have hung on for another couple of laps, but in the end the second cats blew the whole thing apart shortly after anyway, so it fragmented right down.

Anyway, I enjoyed it, and it's given me something to remember over the winter, as well as reinforcing that I really need to do a lot more speedwork, strength work and intervals/recovery training as well as just plodding out the miles. As someone said, it's not the average speed that kills you (although it'll have a go!) it's the constant cycles of acceleration and recovery. If you don't train with that in mind, you won't be able to race that way. Sorry for the long essay, but I'm still buzzing!

BullGod said:

I've noticed round here (NL and Belgium) that in the amateur ranks the guys who are the best in the crits tend to be older....often late 30's to mid 40's...Obviously experience counts for a lot, but is there something about the nature of a crit that makes it more suitable for the physical capabilites of a rider closer to 40 than 20?

I mean for example I know elite amateurs in their mid 40's who enter elite level crits with the young Dutch pros of the future and still get top 10 finishes despite being more than 20 years older....

any ideas?

Alot of my friends(juniors) win, or place in the top 5, in crits in the cat 3 and 2 all the time, but I guess they have raced alot. I would say that it is about your athletic maturity, not your age.

helloo2u said:

Alot of my friends(juniors) win, or place in the top 5, in crits in the cat 3 and 2 all the time, but I guess they have raced alot. I would say that it is about your athletic maturity, not your age.

Yes, yes. Racing maturity is very important. I know as I've gotten older and lost a little pep in my pedal stroke, I've opted for cheating. Of course, a good doping regiment is good, but holding on to cars, cutting the course, showing up about 1k from the finish and jumping in the winning break, chopping wheels, having friends throw rocks, doctoring the finish video, pushing fellow riders into oncoming traffic, stabbing a competitor with a knife, hiring a sniper... these are all very effective ways to win races despite age and fitness level.

helmutRoole2 said:

Yes, yes. Racing maturity is very important. I know as I've gotten older and lost a little pep in my pedal stroke, I've opted for cheating. Of course, a good doping regiment is good, but holding on to cars, cutting the course, showing up about 1k from the finish and jumping in the winning break, chopping wheels, having friends throw rocks, doctoring the finish video, pushing fellow riders into oncoming traffic, stabbing a competitor with a knife, hiring a sniper... these are all very effective ways to win races despite age and fitness level.

Hiring a sniper? Jeez, that's going too far. Much more in the spirit of individual athletic competition to shoot him yourself... :-)

Eastway82 said:

Hiring a sniper? Jeez, that's going too far. Much more in the spirit of individual athletic competition to shoot him yourself... :-)

Agreed. Next time I'll put a cap in their ass. I'll pull my nine.