2 issues in one

I can give first-hand comments on the Specialized Crossroads and Expedition and The Trek 7200. I have had a Specialized Crossroads Elite and my wife has had the Trek 7200 for a little more than two years. One of my daughters has the Specialized Expedition Sport, and another has the Trek 7200. Two of my colleagues have the Specialized Sirrus, and I had riden with two folks who recently switched from the Specialized Crossroads to the Specialized Sequoia. All are good hybrids, and in the long run would be better values than the Schwinn or GT, but there are a few differences to consider. Here is my $0.02 breakdown on the Trek and Specialized bikes on your list.

The Expedition and Trek Navigator are basically light weight, hard-tail mountain bikes. they have the 26x1.95" tires and gearing of a mountain bike, but the frame and fork suspension are not nearly as rugged as a true mountain bike. The fork suspension on the Expidation Sport and Navigator 200 models are not adjustable. The Navigator 100 does not have a suspension, and the Navigator 300 and Expedition Elite have adjustable suspensions. That said, these are perfect for trail riding and light off-road use, but not stump jumping or rock hopping. They are much slower on the road than any of the other bikes on your short list.

The Crossroads and Trek 7000 series are very similar. The main difference is that most of the Crossroads models have Shimano trigger shifters and most of the Trek 7000 series models have SRAM grip shifters. Both work well, so it is just a matter of personal preference. The Trek 7000 does not have a suspension fork, but all of the higher models do. You have to get to the 7300, though, before you get to one with a pre-load adjustable fork. If your weight is correct for the non-adjustable suspension, then that is not a factor, but if you are heavy enough to bottom out the suspension, then you are better off with either no suspension or with the adjustable suspension. The Treks have 35 mm tires, and the Specialized have 38 mm tires, but that is not a major difference. Both have chainrings similar to road bike tripples, and cassettes similar to wide range mountain bikes. These bikes are good for bike paths, but not true off-road riding. They are faster on the road than the Expedition or Navigator, but not nearly as fast as the others. They are not ideal bikes, though, for rides longer than about 35 miles.

The Sirrus and the Trek 7.x series are basically flat-bar road bikes. They have true road bike chainrings and cassettes and 700x25c or 700x28c tires. The advantage over the Crossroads or 7000 series is that they are lighter and have thinner tires and lighter wheels. The disadvantage compared to a drop-bar road bike is the limited number (as in one) of hand positions. They are fine for short rides, but on anything longer than about 25 miles, you will miss the alternative hand positions.
The Specialized Sequoia is an extremely relaxed geometry (as in upright) road bike. It is designed more for comfort than for speed. It is faster than anything else on your list, but not as fast as a racing geometry road bike or the in-between styles like the Specialized Roubaix or Trek Pilot. I had it on my short list when I decided to buy a bike for long rides. I ended up with A Specialized Roubaix Elite, but the Sequoia is a very good bike for long, leisurly paced rides. It is not suited for anything other than roads or very well manicured trails, but everyone I have talked to that has one has been extremely pleased with it.

thanks for the great info!

i took my db in for repairs. everyone at the shop is at bike shows for the next week so i'll be riding my stationary recumbent for a while. if db doesn't agree to pay parts and labor for this warranty work, i'll buy my next bike very soon! that shop also sells specialized and schwinn. the kid at the shop said that the schwinns are basically the same "level" as the expedition. i liked the looks of the sequoia but it's beyond what i'm willing to pay right now.

i'm not totally comfortable with this shop so i'll visit the local trek dealer next.

couple of other questions if you don't mind;

i'm pretty sure i'm going to need a bike with an adjustable stem height and angle. i need to have as little weight as possible on my wrists when i ride. would it be possible to swap out an adjustable stem on a road bike that has a more upright geometry? would that defeat the purpose? are shops typically willing to do this on lower $ bikes? also, is there a benefit to swapping out saddles/posts for one with a suspension? lastly, i know front suspensions get a bad rep for road/path riding. however, i need as little vibration as possible. will a front suspension cut down on the more subtle vibration or is it designed mostly to absorb impacts and rough terrain?

thanks again!

Swapping the stem should not be a problem. The Trek 7000 and Navigator series and Specialized Crossroads and Expedition series all come with adjustable stems. The Sirrus and Sequoia have four position stems - they are adjustable, but not infinitely like the others. Most LBS will adjust the stem for you, even if it means replacing the stem, as part of the initial setup when you buy the bike.

Having a more upright position does cause more wind resistance, but I would not say that it defeats the purpose of the road bike. A road bike, even in an upright position, is going to be faster than a hybrid because of the lighter wheels and reduced rolling resistance. Wind resistance is not really a factor until you get above 16 mph. I would take a comfortable upright position over a faster, more aerodynamic position except if I were racing.

Arrrggghhhh!!!!!!!

Well, the lbs finally finished with my warranty claim again. I picked up the bike last Friday. I've been riding a stationary bike for 3 weeks (boring!).

on my 3rd ride out, same thing happened again....bent rim/broken spoke. this is the 3rd time this has happened. first time, they simply repaired the wheel. last time, they replaced the entire wheel.

Anyone ever heard of this? Could it be a bent frame or gear???? i keep telling Diamondback and the lbs that i only ride on the road and paths. it's true, but i don't think they believe me now. diamondback only seems concerned that sportsauthority (where i bought it originally) won't do warranty work on it. the lbs doesn't put a high priority on it because i didn't buy it there. also, they charge me for the labor each time.

i'm ready to buy a new bike and use the diamondback for spare parts.

i went to a different lbs today. they sell trek and specialized. they didn't have any of the fx series at the store. the sales kids steered me towards the specialized expedition.

if you had to choose, which would you pick;
trek navigator
trek fx (the lbs will swap out the stem for the one that comes with the nav 3)
specialized expedition

also, i test rode a cannondale and liked how it fit me. anyone have hands-on experience with cannodales?

I have no first hand eperience with Cannondale. They are good bikes, but I do not have a good LBS in my area that carries them.

The Trek Navigator and Specialized Expedition are practically twins. If you were leaning towards a Trek Fx, the closest Specialized would be the Sirrus. They are at the oposite end of the hybrid spectrum from the Navigator and Expedition. The Fx and Sirrus are basically flat bar road bikes. The Navigator and Expedition are basically light weight mountain bikes. The Trek 7000 series and Specialized Crossroads fall somewhere in between.

Which to pick depends on where you want to ride. If you want to ride on the road or paved bike paths, pick the Sirrus or FX (or better yet, the Trek Pilot or Specialized Roubaix). If you want to ride off-road, pick the Navigator or Expedition. If you want to ride on unpaved, but well manicured bike paths, pick the 7000 series or Crossroads.

what a process this has been!!!!

just got my bike out of the shop for the 4th time. the tech "trued" the wheel again. it lasted one ride.

is it true that there have been a rash of bad spokes in the industry? that's diamondback's explanation. the csr i spoke to said that it has affected every parts vendor and none of them can predict if the spokes are good or bad (i supposed that's why they can't guarantee that the replacement wheels won't warp).

maybe i'm naive, but that sounds like b.s.

but on to more exciting things....

i've been trying out bikes. i've tried the specialized sirrus and a couple of the trek fx line. i liked the treks better, but they still weren't comfortable. I didn't like the sirrus at all (although the gearing was great for me and the shifting was smooth). the rides of these flat bar road bikes just don't bode well for my size/health issues.

i've tried the trek 7000 series (up thru the the 7500). they felt ok. the specialized crossroads and expedition both felt so-so as well.

i've found that none of the lbs's have bikes in the appropriate size for me for each make/model i want to try. i'm not getting an apples to apples comparison.

I tried the gary fisher tiburon. i liked it better than the trek 7100.

i'm 6' tall and have long arms. a longer effective top tube length seems to be more comfortable for me.

does anyone know of a good "bike finder" program on-line? here are the features i'm pretty sure that i want;

-suspension saddle post (i have nerve circulation probs so stiff saddle posts are out)
-fork suspension (pre-load adjust and length of travel don't matter - i just need a softer ride because of cts)
-twist grip shifters
-an upright riding position (the less weight on my wrists, the better).
-apparently i need a really sturdy frame and rear wheel

does this bike exist?

Many of the bikes you have been trying seem to meet your wish list, although I am not sure I agree with all of your rationales.

atomship47 said:

-suspension saddle post (i have nerve circulation probs so stiff saddle posts are out)
-fork suspension (pre-load adjust and length of travel don't matter - i just need a softer ride because of cts)
-twist grip shifters
-an upright riding position (the less weight on my wrists, the better).
-apparently i need a really sturdy frame and rear wheel

A saddle that is correct for you and in the proper position is far more important with respect to circulation problems than a suspension saddle post. In fact, a suspension post will do nothing to improve circulation. Circulation problems are due to your body weight being supported by the soft tissue rathen than by the sit bones.

A suspension fork will do nothing for carpel tunnel syndrome. Having your wrists in the proper neutral position is wht you need. A suspension fork might dampen some shock from riding over bumps, but if your wrists are not in the proper position, the "softer ride" is not going to help.

An upright riding position is going to make the circulation problem from the saddle worse. Your weight must be balanced among your feet, hands and butt. Removing the weight from your hands only adds to the weight carried by your butt and feet. Removing the weight from the hands is is also not going to help the carpal tunnel syndrome, either, if the wrists are not in proper position. It is improper wrist position, and not the weight that is being supported by the wrists, that causes carpel tunnel syndrome. The additional hand positions offered by a drop bar will help carpal tunnel syndrome more than an upright position will. I am not talking about an aggresive racing posture, but do not shy away from drop bars on a relaxed bike like the Specialized Sequoia, Trek Pilot, or Specialized Roubaix.

I weighed 265 pounds when I started riding. I am down to 187 pounds, now, but during that time it took to lose the weight, I put several thousand miles on my Specialized Crossroads without ever breaking a spoke or having a wheel go out of true. The wheels and frames of all of the bikes you mentioned are about as strong as you are likely to find.

As far as a bad batch of spokes are concerned, there could be something to that. When I ordered my Specialized Roubaix Elite, it was supposed to come with Mavic Open Sport rims. When I received it, it had A-Class ALX 295 wheels. I asked Specialized what the differences were and why they made the switch. The response I received was that there were manufacturing problems with the original shipment of Mavic wheels, so rather than delaying shipment of the bike, they switched to the ALX 295 wheels. Specialized considered this an upgrade. These wheels are not light by racing standards, but far lighter than the wheels on the Crossroads, and slightly lighter than the Mavic wheels they replaced. I was 200 pounds when I started riding the Roubaix, and have put over 1000 miles on it without any problems. The wheels are still perfectly true.

the lbs upgraded the wheel. are there 1-piece wheels that are affordable?

I hear what you're saying about the upright position and circulation. I agree. but, with my wrists, putting any amount of weight/resistance and my fingers sting then go numb pretty quickly (weight training is what caused my cts to begin with). same with vibration. even with almost no weight on my wrists, vibration really makes the cts act up no matter what position/angle they're in. on the sirrus, it felt like i could feel every little bump or contour of the sidewalk (it's like driving my 3/4 ton pickup truck on a bumpy road). sometimes i'll lean forward and rest my forearms on the handlebars. that helps. i don't like that position for very long. my back hurts and the saddle makes it feel like someone kicked me in the 'taint zone from behind. so that's my rationale about the suspension post/fork.

so...i have another question to add to my long list...

generally, a 20" frame fits me from a standover height standpoint. however, the handlebars feel too close to me (even when adjusted to the furthest distance). should i ignore standover height if that's what it takes to get a comfortable effective top tube distance?

this is really time consuming. i'm driving all over just to find lbs's that have bikes with the right sized frame in the makes/models i want to try out.

maybe i'm just thinking too much and should buy the first thing that feels good on a test ride.

Which fingers go numb? If it is primarily the ring finger and little finger, then the problem is compression of the ulnar nerve. That is a problem with flat bar bikes. With a drop bar, you can put your hands on the hoods, and not have pressure on the ulnar nerve. If it is the thumb, index finger and middle finger, then the problem might be related to cts, but I still do not think a suspension fork is the answer. Padded bar wraps, such as those on the Specialized Sequoia, Specialized Roubaix, and Trek Pilot, a good pair of padded cycling gloves, and frequent changing of the hand position will be of more help than a suspension fork.

Stand-over heignt versus effective top tube length can be a dilemma. You do not want the stand-over height so high that you cannot straddle the bike. That could lead to another problem. Bikes with sloping top tubes usually allow for a greater effective top tube length for the same stand-over height. Try the Sequoia, Roubaix, and Pilot.

If the stand-over height limits the effective top tube length, you can have the LBS replace the stem with a longer one. On the other hand, if you want an upright position, why are you worrying about the effective top tube length being too short? Just raise the bars.

It sounds as if the saddle is not in the proper position. The saddle should be positioned so that the sit bones are on the widest part of the saddle. If you are sitting too far forward on the saddle, your weight will be on the perineum instead of on the sit bones. A suspension seat post is not going to help that. Finding the correct position for the saddle is the key.

One piece wheels are not a good idea except for time trial bikes. They are hard to control when you encounter a crosswind. A wheel with 32 or 36 spokes would be better than a solid wheel.

thanks rick. good info.

it sounds like i have a pretty poor riding posture and don't have my bike "fitted" properly. maybe that's a reason for warped wheels and broken spokes.

actually, sometimes all my fingers go numb. i have both carpal tunnel syndrome and cubital tunnel syndrome. sucks!

i think i need to find an experienced rider to go with me when i try out bikes.

A good LBS should have experienced fitters. Make an appointment to work with a fitter. Explain to him the problems you are experiencing and have him check your position on the bike. When I bought my Roubaix, I spent about four hours with a fitter. Most of that time was on a trainer, but I also took three rides of about five miles each on the road. Going in, I was considering almost every Trek, Specialized, or Felt road bike under $2000. The fitter helped me narrow the choices based on my physical abilities and riding goals, then set up several bikes to fit me. This included replacing the stem, since I have very short arms for my height. I ended up with a bike that was comfortable from the first day.

Riding with an experienced rider is helpful. In addition to watching your positioning on the bike, an experienced rider can let you know if you are in the wrong gear and if you are tensing too much. My LBS, and many others, offer group rides. The leader of the beginners' rides at my LBS is an excellent coach. His comments on my technique during the rides have done more to improve my riding abilities than the more than 75 pound weight loss and improved physical conditioning have.

Because of his coaching, at 54 years of age and with spinal stenosis and torn cartilages in both knees, I was able to keep up with a group of 20 somethings at an average speed of 17.0 mph on a recent 75 mile ride. In addition, I was able to get back on the bike and ride another 75 miles the next day. Even after the second day, I had no discomfort.
Most inexperienced riders try to push too hard a gear. It is best to maintain a high pedal cadence in an easier gear than to pedal slowly in a high gear. Most inexperienced riders also tend to grip the bar too tightly, lock their elbows, and tense the arm, shoulder, and neck muscles. Learning to ride relaxed is important to being able to ride comfortably for long distances without injuring yourself. Again, an experienced rider can help you with these things.

well, you've definitely described some of my technique.

i'm lucky in that i get to set my own hours for work. so, this afternoon, i'm going to visit a few more bike shops.

for the most part, i think i've learned to ride correctly when it comes to grip and my arms. my nerve issues force me to ride relaxed in that respect.

i know i should use a higher cadence with easier gears, but i can't seem to train myself to do that. i almost exclusively use my outer ring and higher geared cogs. with no wind and a flat surface i can maintain 19mph for extended periods. i enjoy the workout it gives me. and, since i have never ridden more than 31 miles, i haven't strained myself yet.

considering how i ride, that's why i prefer twist grips. the way i ride, when i need to downshift, i need to do so quickly. i find myself dumping front and rear rings at the same time. that's probably not good for my bike but, i ride solo and just can't seem to change styles.

i'll give the hybrid road bikes another shot. i'll try angling the saddle forward more.

thanks for the advice. you've been a great help!

It is not so much angling the saddle forward as it is sliding the saddle forward on the rails. The saddle should be nearly level, but the whole thing can slid forward so that you are sitting farther back on the saddle.

I never use the large chainring unless I am going above 24 mph. I do not have much opportunity to ride where it is flat, but when I go get the chance, I can maintain 22 mph in the middle chain ring. It does take some getting used to, but once you do, riding at a higher cadence is much better. On the flats, there is no difference in the speed I can maintain on the Crossroads versus the Roubaix - 22 to 24 mph. The differences are in how long it takes me to get to that speed (about half a mile on the Crossroads, and about three pedal revolutions on the Roubaix) and in how long I can ride. The farthest I have ever gone on the Crossroads is 40 miles, and I usually start feeling the effects of the ride after about 32 miles. On the Roubaix, I still feel good after 75 miles. The Crossroads is more upright and has a suspension seat post, suspension fork, and a wide saddle with springs, but the Roubaix is more comfortable over a longer period of time.

My wife and two of my daughters have grip shifters, but I did not like them. My other daughter and my sons-in-law have trigger shifters on hybrids and mountain bikes and brifters on road bikes. The choice between grip shifters and trigger shifters is purely a personal preference issue, which is why I have not commented. They both work equally well, so whatever is most comfortable for you is the way to go.

i can't get the saddle on my db to stay level. it always angles upwards.

i test rode more bikes yesterday (that actually fit me). i didn't like the xroads or nav series. they felt like i was riding a chopper. the 2 that stood out were the trek 7300 and the giant cypress (dx i believe). the best so far was the cannondale. i don't recall which model. it was $720 so i guess it was the adventure 600. i was going to try the jamis but they didn't have it in my size.

the kid at the giant (and cannondale) dealer said that giant makes about 80% of all trek's bikes for them. is that true?

i'd like to try the fuji and bianchi but the local dealers don't have any in stock.

today i'm going to try the gt timberline and gary fisher comfort series (and maybe the sirrus and fx line again)....then i'll pull the trigger and buy one....i hope.

Many Trek frames are made in Taiwan. Giant is the largest maker of frames in Taiwan. Whether Trek frames are made in the same factory as Giant frames has been a subject of speculation for quite a while. Both are good frames, though, so whether they are made in the same plant should have no influence in which to buy. Buy the bike that feels best to you.

atomship47 said:

. the 2 that stood out were the trek 7300 and the giant cypress (dx i believe). the best so far was the cannondale.

I have a Trek 7300, and it's a very easy-riding bike - up to a point. I also have a Giant Cypress (with road tires, not trail tires). Both bikes are very similar. Above 18MPH, up a steep or long hill, or on a long, demanding ride, at some point, it reveals itself to be what it is - a hybrid comfort bike. I got mine about 2 years ago, as I was recovering from a motorcycle accident. (I had the Giant prior to the accident, but my wife started riding it while I was recovering). Since I had a fairly difficult recovery, I got the bike that would allow me to easily get back into biking, and the 7300 was perfect for it.

As I've been getting in better shape (down to 197 from 240+ from March 6th this year!), I've been pushing the bike further and harder to the point where it's time for me to upgrade to a 'real' road bike. I think I'm looking at the Roubaix, Pilot and Cannondale Synapse as my 3 target bikes.

That being said, the Trek and Giant are good bikes if you understand their limitations......great for entry level and casual riding, but you might want to upgrade at some point, if you're getting more serious as a rider.

Kokomo61, that mirrors my experience (without the motorcycle accident). I started riding the Specialized Crossroads Elite (almost a twin to the Trek 7300) when I was 265 pounds. Rides in the 15 to 30 mile range were great, but I never could average faster than 15 mph, and by 35 miles, my little fingers and ring fingers would go numb (ulnar palsy). From December until August, I went from 265 pounds to 200 pounds. When I reached 200 pounds, I bought a Specialized Roubaix Elite. Within three weeks of getting the Roubaix, I averaged 17 mph for a 75 mile ride without any discomfort or numbness. Now, I am down to 187 pounds, and have a target of betweeen 175 and 180.

I still use the Crossroads on trails, but the Roubaix is much more comfortable on the road. Bikes in the Crossroads/7300 class are good bikes to start on, but once you get to where you are riding more than 20 miles at a time, and assuming that the riding is on paved surfaces, you will want to get something in the Roubaix/Pilot class. As I have posted before, these are not agressive racing style bikes. They are extremely comfortable road bikes and they are a lot better for climbing, accelerating, and overall comfort on long rides than the hybrids.

I have no first-hand experience with the Cannondale, because there is not a dealer in my immediate area, but I did test ride the Pilot 5.2 before I bought the Roubaix Elite. For me, there was no real difference between the two. The Pilot has more bling factor, but when set up identically, both felt, shifted, and handled the same, and the Roubaix was considerably less expensive.

thanks for the info.

i just spent all morning at 2 lbs's. i tried the gary fisher flat-bar road bike and the trek fx and nav 3.0 again.

if i go with a hybrid, it's going to be the 7300 or adventure 400 (strongly leaning towards the trek because of the price difference). the 2 people i spoke with seemed much more knowledgable than others i've spoken to. both agreed that part of my wheel issues are that i'm putting a lot of miles on a bike that isn't built with the most durable components. one said that having my rear tire at 60psi instead of the max 65psi is the likely culprit. the other thinks that my style of riding with more weight on the rear wheel and high torque due to using the outer ring so much could be the problem.

if the latter is true, then i may have to look at mountain bikes or upgrading the rear wheel-set to a downhill type. i'm not keen on going the mountain bike route as 98% or so of my time is spent on roads or groomed bike paths.

i'm going to take a step back and think about it for a day or 2 (but not too long since my db is going back into the shop).

i'm more concerned with fitness and cadence than speed or distance. therefore, for now, i think a hybrid will work for me. as soon as i do a charity ride or ride with a partner, that will probably change.

atomship47 said:

both agreed that part of my wheel issues are that i'm putting a lot of miles on a bike that isn't built with the most durable components. one said that having my rear tire at 60psi instead of the max 65psi is the likely culprit. the other thinks that my style of riding with more weight on the rear wheel and high torque due to using the outer ring so much could be the problem.

I agree with the first point that the db is not built for durability, but I have issues with the other two comments. Riding at 60 psi instead of 65 psi should either have no effect on the spokes or put less stress on the spokes, since the tire would be absorbing more of the shock. There is no way that riding with a low tire pressure would put more stress on the wheel. Running at a lower pressure could make you more prone to flats, but it should have not cause the wheels to go out of true.

Riding in the large chainring increases speed, but it decreases torque, so that does not make any sense, either. With low gears, you have more torque and better accelleration, but less speed. With high gears, you have more speed, but less torque, and therefore, poor accelleration.

It is true that the rear wheel has more forces on it than the front wheel does, but your riding style cannot have that much effect on the weight distribution between the wheels or other forces on the rear wheel to cause it to fail. Unless you are more than 280 pounds or are going through the pot holes instead of around them, the wheels on the Trek 7300 will be strong enough. If you are more than 280 pounds, you might reconsider the Navigator or Expedition. The 26" wheels put less stress on the spokes than the 700c wheels do. If you go that route and plan to ride on the road, swap the OEM tires for something with a smoother tread. That will go a long way towards softening the ride.

If you are riding through the pot holes, stop doing that🙄 . steer around the obsticals in the road, and your wheels, tires, wrists and butt will thank you😄 .