Experience of Velowalker (or similar) Child's Bike?

Quoted message said:

I've got a 2 year old daughter & am keen to get her on a bike asap.
I've seen a couple of children on 'Velowalker' bikes
(http://www.velowalker.com/). They're German made 'no pedals' bikes &
I've heard that they're a great for getting a child on to a bike &
learning about balance and pretty much cutting out the stabliser stage.

I think they look great but they're pretty expensive (£150-ish), so a
couple of questions:

1. Does the basic principle work in helping a child to learn to cycle?

2. Given the cost - has anyone got any experience of the imitations,
(eg http://tinyurl.com/ydmk7h http://tinyurl.com/ylubyg and
http://tinyurl.com/yn83cy )

Yep. A small kids bike from the tip with the pedals removed.
*Much* cheaper.

John B

John B said:

Quoted message said:

1. Does the basic principle work in helping a child to learn to cycle?

Yes. And is a lot of fun for them too..

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

2. Given the cost - has anyone got any experience of the imitations,
(eg http://tinyurl.com/ydmk7h http://tinyurl.com/ylubyg and
http://tinyurl.com/yn83cy )

I have a cheap (30 quid) Tchibo one that lives indoors only so is used
to scoot around the house and annoy TODM when left in the way (not by
me). Much better than 150 quid. LiDL occasionally have similar but in
wood for a modest sum.

Quoted message said:

Yep. A small kids bike from the tip with the pedals removed.
*Much* cheaper.

Also a good idea, then the pedals can go on later when balance has been
attained.

...d

In article said:

1. Does the basic principle work in helping a child to learn to cycle?

Taking the pedals off a standard bike and using it as a scooter for
a while certainly helped my son, but he was rather older.

Quoted message said:

2. Given the cost - has anyone got any experience of the imitations,
(eg http://tinyurl.com/ydmk7h http://tinyurl.com/ylubyg and
http://tinyurl.com/yn83cy )

The Lidl version at £9.99 had favourable comments, but you'll probably
have to wait until at least next year before they do it again:
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk.rec.cycling/browse_frm/thread/394e3b337b618ffe/fce2a7fee75cb018?lnk=st&q=lidl+like-a-bike&rnum=1&hl=en#fce2a7fee75cb018

Quoted message said:

I've got a 2 year old daughter & am keen to get her on a bike asap.
I've seen a couple of children on 'Velowalker' bikes
(http://www.velowalker.com/). They're German made 'no pedals' bikes &
I've heard that they're a great for getting a child on to a bike &
learning about balance and pretty much cutting out the stabliser stage.

I think they look great but they're pretty expensive (£150-ish), so a
couple of questions:

You can get a very good quality British alternative from Islabikes for a
lot less: see http://www.islabikes.co.uk/bike_pages/rothan.html

It got a very good review (with enthusiastic endorsement from Very Cute
Moppet!) in a recent copy of VeloVision.

Still a lot more than the tip-salvage John suggests, but perhaps a
rather nicer thing to be playing on?

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Peter Clinch said:

Quoted message said:

I've got a 2 year old daughter & am keen to get her on a bike asap.
I've seen a couple of children on 'Velowalker' bikes
(http://www.velowalker.com/). They're German made 'no pedals' bikes &
I've heard that they're a great for getting a child on to a bike &
learning about balance and pretty much cutting out the stabliser stage.

I think they look great but they're pretty expensive (£150-ish), so a
couple of questions:

You can get a very good quality British alternative from Islabikes for a
lot less: see http://www.islabikes.co.uk/bike_pages/rothan.html

It got a very good review (with enthusiastic endorsement from Very Cute
Moppet!) in a recent copy of VeloVision.

Still a lot more than the tip-salvage John suggests, but perhaps a
rather nicer thing to be playing on?

I would really like these 'trainer-bikes' to be fitted with at least a
simple brake to introduce to the future cyclist the concept of pulling up to
stop, rather than by putting the feet down first.

The earlier they understand this concept the easier it will be when they
move on to 'real' cycling.
Being able to stop safely, and in control, is critical in learning to ride.

John B

John B said:

I would really like these 'trainer-bikes' to be fitted with at least a
simple brake to introduce to the future cyclist the concept of pulling up to
stop, rather than by putting the feet down first.

The earlier they understand this concept the easier it will be when they
move on to 'real' cycling.
Being able to stop safely, and in control, is critical in learning to ride.

On the one hand, yes, but on the other a two year old's hands will
probably have trouble with any meaningful brake so probably better that
they use the more effective means available to them, since that will
better ensure stopping in safety.

The issue of hand operated brakes is one reason why Puky use back-pedal
brakes on junior models, of course, and a back pedal brake isn't really
going to work here...

The issue of not putting one's feet down on a bike is quickly resolved
by the seat being too high to get much mileage out of it when set for
useful pedalling.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Recently bought the 3 yo a Like-a-bike and can't keep him off it, although he has given mum a few scares on the downhill sections!

Their not cheap and the bike-with-pedals-removed option is a grand idea it just doesn't go with our West London sod the cost look at the style ethos ;-)

I've found the most annoying thing about these things is getting stopped by every third parent asking where we got it from. Ours came from the new(ish) bike shop in Richmond (not Richmond Cycles).Early Learning centre do them now apparently.

P

Peter Clinch said:

On the one hand, yes, but on the other a two year old's hands will
probably have trouble with any meaningful brake so probably better that
they use the more effective means available to them, since that will
better ensure stopping in safety.

My almost-3-year-old has been riding his FirstBike (think Like-a-Bike
but with a plastic moulded frame) since Easter. He mastered the use of
the hand-operated rear (drum) brake fairly quickly, and now delights in
wearing out the back tyre by skidding to a stop.

He also got the idea of lifting both legs up and freewheeling almost
immediately. He can almost track stand on it now.

Tim

Peter Clinch said:

You can get a very good quality British alternative from Islabikes for a
lot less: see http://www.islabikes.co.uk/bike_pages/rothan.html

Every nursery class in the country should have a couple of those.

John B said:

I would really like these 'trainer-bikes' to be fitted with at least a
simple brake to introduce to the future cyclist the concept of pulling up to
stop, rather than by putting the feet down first.

The earlier they understand this concept the easier it will be when they
move on to 'real' cycling.
Being able to stop safely, and in control, is critical in learning to ride.

IME (i.e. teaching a single child) it only takes a few minutes to get
the hang of using the brakes when moving up from a like-a-Like-a-Bike to
a Puky with pedals and brakes.

--
Danny Colyer <URL:http://www.colyer.plus.com/danny/>
Reply address is valid, but that on my website is checked more often
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine

Quoted message said:

I've got a 2 year old daughter & am keen to get her on a bike asap.

(scooting bikes)

My experience (with cheap lidl) - excellent, but I wouldn't pay 150
quid. I was very happy with the 30 quid I paid, would have been
ecstatic to have paid 10 quid as lidl wanted this year.

We took our daughter (just 4) and hers to a long sea-front smooth
tarmac promenade a month or so ago. She struggled into a strong
headwind, but then when we turned round, she scooted once and then
sailed on the wind forever. She thought it was fantastic, I ran about
7 miles to keep with her and nearly died from cardio-vascular
collapse.

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

Danny Colyer said:

John B said:

I would really like these 'trainer-bikes' to be fitted with at least a
simple brake to introduce to the future cyclist the concept of pulling up to
stop, rather than by putting the feet down first.

The earlier they understand this concept the easier it will be when they
move on to 'real' cycling.
Being able to stop safely, and in control, is critical in learning to ride.

IME (i.e. teaching a single child) it only takes a few minutes to get
the hang of using the brakes when moving up from a like-a-Like-a-Bike to
a Puky with pedals and brakes.

I have taught a number who have moved from brakeless scooter bikes to 'proper
bikes' and they seem to have had more problems in grasping a safe controlled stop
than does an absolute beginner.
They have got into the habit of slamming their feet onto the ground first. As a
result it becomes harder to get them to follow the more correct sequence of
brake/stop/feet down.

Complete beginners haven't got into the bad habit of using their feet to stop.

Similar problems occur when teaching youngsters who have been using stabilisers,
when they have become used to lifting both feet off the ground first, before
putting any pressure on the pedals.
The result is inevitable.

John B

Quoted message said:

I've got a 2 year old daughter & am keen to get her on a bike asap.
I've seen a couple of children on 'Velowalker' bikes
(http://www.velowalker.com/). They're German made 'no pedals' bikes &
I've heard that they're a great for getting a child on to a bike &
learning about balance and pretty much cutting out the stabliser stage.

I think they look great but they're pretty expensive (£150-ish), so a
couple of questions:

1. Does the basic principle work in helping a child to learn to cycle?

yes, Four children under four are confident bike handlers as a result.
You can start them around two IME. They go as fast and as far as a
pedalled bike (with or without stabilisers) for very small children and
are incomparably lighter to carry when necessary. Better than a bike
with pedals removed for small kids IMO but no need to go for anything
as expensive as this unless you want to. Someone does one which can
have a transmission fitted (reviewd in Velovision a few issues back)

Quoted message said:

2. Given the cost - has anyone got any experience of the imitations,
(eg http://tinyurl.com/ydmk7h nice looking. Good build quality I hear but no direct experience of use http://tinyurl.com/ylubyg and
http://tinyurl.com/yn83cy )

See also Puky Learner bike - GBP50. (imported by Amba Marketing).
Metal, robust (I own one). Two of my nephews/neices have used a
plastic (heavily for several years) and wooden (for a few months before
graduating onto pedals) cheap copies from Tchiboi and Lidl (sub GBP30)

best wishes
james

John B said:

Peter Clinch said:

Quoted message said:

I've got a 2 year old daughter & am keen to get her on a bike asap.

Quoted message said:

I would really like these 'trainer-bikes' to be fitted with at least a
simple brake to introduce to the future cyclist the concept of pulling up to
stop, rather than by putting the feet down first.

The earlier they understand this concept the easier it will be when they
move on to 'real' cycling.
Being able to stop safely, and in control, is critical in learning to ride.

IME very small children just don't get brales. Then it takes a while
to develop adequate hand strength to operate them. For very small kids
brake levers are just something to be distracted by whilst you cruise
into a wall or something

best wishes
james

Quoted post said:

IME very small children just don't get brales. Then it takes a while
to develop adequate hand strength to operate them.

I am sure all children are different. I know my own were using very 'light'
brakes at two. Their hands had probably developed by lots of hand
holding/gripping since birth - that or it was the arm-wrestling ;-)

What I do know from reasonable experience is that teaching a youngster who is
moving from a scoot-along bike to a 'real' bike has always been harder than
teaching a complete beginner (and its the same for those who have used
stabilisers).

Quoted message said:

For very small kids
brake levers are just something to be distracted by whilst you cruise
into a wall or something

Or a muddy stream as one of my trainees did earlier this year :-(

John B

On Thu, 02 Nov 2006 22:18:21 +0000, John B <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

What I do know from reasonable experience is that teaching a youngster who is
moving from a scoot-along bike to a 'real' bike has always been harder than
teaching a complete beginner (and its the same for those who have used
stabilisers).

In the first 3 weeks of term I taught 15 7-year old children to ride a
bike. I asked their parents to tick a box:

Never ridden a bike
Can ride a bike with stabilisers

I found it easier to teach children to ride if they could already ride
with stabilisers, simply because they understood and knew the
mechanics of pedalling and turning, and had sufficent strength in
their legs.

In learning to ride a bike, balance is the hardest thing to master.
Those scoot-along bikes will teach balance and turning. The only
things left to teach are pedalling and braking. Stabilisers do
nothing to help with balance and may make learning balance harder, but
balance is the only thing that needs to be taught to a child already
competent at riding with stabilisers.

Tom Crispin said:

On Thu, 02 Nov 2006 22:18:21 +0000, John B <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

What I do know from reasonable experience is that teaching a youngster who is
moving from a scoot-along bike to a 'real' bike has always been harder than
teaching a complete beginner (and its the same for those who have used
stabilisers).

In the first 3 weeks of term I taught 15 7-year old children to ride a
bike. I asked their parents to tick a box:

Never ridden a bike
Can ride a bike with stabilisers

I found it easier to teach children to ride if they could already ride
with stabilisers, simply because they understood and knew the
mechanics of pedalling and turning, and had sufficent strength in
their legs.

Interesting. I find exactly the opposite.
Perhaps because it is there are so many different methods used to teach.
Almost without fail, I find that a child who has used stabilisers will try and
lift both feet up before pushing down, which leads to an inevitable gentle
topple. I've never come across any who do not have the strength to pedal the few
revolutions needed to learn, unless they are using cranks which are just far too
short with reduced leverage. Riding on grass on knobblies doesn't help either.

The only advantages I've found about stabilisers is that if brakes are fitted
they know what they are and do. I also agree with you about steering, although
steering dynamics on a supported bike and a two wheel bike are *very* different
as any trikie will tell you. A child who has ridden for some time on stabilisers
will have this to overcome - yet another unnecessary problem to deal with.

Quoted message said:

In learning to ride a bike, balance is the hardest thing to master.

Again a very different experience.
IME (over 40 new riders in the Summer) this is the easiest part.
I *always* concentrate on safe stopping first, showing how a bike can stand up
stationary for around a second, before the foot is placed on the ground. We then
spend time practicing brake/stop/foot down, whilst supported over about 3metres.
Only when that has been mastered and and a safe confident stop has been achieved
is starting off introduced. We move on to a start and a stop, supported, then
unsupported over about 5metres.
This way we can say we have a "No falls policy" and we rarely experience anything
beyond a mild stumble - often simply because the bike is too heavy and is
'dropped'.

Once the rider is confident in a stop and a start we will introduce balance. This
usually comes *very* quickly and the result is that in 9 times out of 10 the
rider will be pedalling off within 45 minutes to an hour.

Building confidence is I think, the most important part of learning. Many riders
are frightened of falling off, so by teaching them the safe stop first their
confidence will grow.

Quoted message said:

Those scoot-along bikes will teach balance and turning.

Agreed.

Quoted message said:

The only
things left to teach are pedalling and braking.

If you mean starting off by pushing down to start, and safe stopping under
control then I agree.

John B

In article said:

I found it easier to teach children to ride if they could already ride
with stabilisers, simply because they understood and knew the
mechanics of pedalling and turning, and had sufficent strength in
their legs.

In learning to ride a bike, balance is the hardest thing to master.
Those scoot-along bikes will teach balance and turning. The only
things left to teach are pedalling and braking.

Though tricycles and tag-a-longs can teach pedalling without some of
the disadvantages of stabilisers.

Alan Braggins said:

Quoted message said:

In learning to ride a bike, balance is the hardest thing to master.
Those scoot-along bikes will teach balance and turning. The only
things left to teach are pedalling and braking.

Though tricycles and tag-a-longs can teach pedalling without some of
the disadvantages of stabilisers.

The best I found was the use of a tandem with kiddiecranks as it means the
youngster *has* to keep pedalling and cannot freewheel.
Yes, I'm a hard man; there's no slouching here ;-)

John B