Indoor Trainer Recommendations

RChung said:

I'm sure there exist riders whose pedalling style is so pathological that it limits their performance, but absent that, how does spin analysis help in improving mechanical efficiency in a way that enhances performance?

Didn't Hunter post on the Wattage list, about some guy (in Colorado?) who has a super-fancy rig with EKG sensors and wires that fixes one's pedal stroke and produces 'HUGE' benefits? Of course, there was no 'how', other than to say that it was expensive. Hopefully you know what I'm talking about, because I don't want to go back through the archives looking for that post.

dlinenbe said:

As a follow up, has anybody "enveloped" the power calibration of the KK road machine.....

Dave, I have not made an effort to envelope the calibration, since I use a PT on my KK Road Machine, but maybe this post (and the associated thread) will give you an idea of what you're looking at. The intent was to determine the changes in power *during* a workout, but you can also see the variances from one workout to another. I don't intentionally regulate tire pressure or knob tension, and the temperature in my basement does fluctuate some. Those specific workouts were randomly chosen from the 3x20's I had on hand.

Taking the speeds from that data, you could use the formulae to determine what the computer's output would be, and compare it to the PT's output. Send me a PM if you want more workout data.

dlinenbe said:

As a follow up, has anybody "enveloped" the power calibration of the KK road machine.....

Dave, to be clear, I am not making any statement about the accuracy of the KK Road Machine power data.

If one doesn't have a PM and wants to use a trainer to train with power, there are two issues: (1) a protocol that results in riding specific durations an an appropriate power (e.g., L4) and (2) knowing what power one is riding at.

The only requirement to use a trainer to train effectively with power is the first one above. The second issue above is a "nice to know" but not essential to training with power.

What I am saying about the KK Road Machine is that from several user reports by users who have both the trainer and a PM (SRM or PT) is that it can be set up from day to day to produce consistent resistance and that the power/speed relationship remains relatively constant after the trainer has been warmed up (e.g., 10mins). The facts that the trainer is quiet, smooth, stable and has a road-like feel are pluses that make it a good choice.

I'd be a little careful about trying to get too precise about the exact watts required to ride at a certain speed due to the influence of tires and tire pressure and I'm in no position to know how consistent the resistance is from trainer to trainer (as opposed to the same trainer from day to day).

RapDaddyo said:

I'm in no position to know how consistent the resistance is from trainer to trainer (as opposed to the same trainer from day to day).

Neither am I, although my impression is the KK is one of the only manufacturers who go through steps to ensure there is consistency. Two factors that influence that impression are that they 1) publish a detailed curve, and even a formula which describes their power curve, as opposed to a tiny .gif picture which only gives a vague idea of the speed/power relationship, and 2) sell a computer which contains the power formula and is designed to work on any one of their trainers.

frenchyge said:

Neither am I, although my impression is the KK is one of the only manufacturers who go through steps to ensure there is consistency. Two factors that influence that impression are that they 1) publish a detailed curve, and even a formula which describes their power curve, as opposed to a tiny .gif picture which only gives a vague idea of the speed/power relationship, and 2) sell a computer which contains the power formula and is designed to work on any one of their trainers.

I agree, all of which increases my confidence in their trainer.

RapDaddyo said:

I agree, all of which increases my confidence in their trainer.

I love the Kurt Kinetic trainers, which is why we carry them. Five years on my original with an average of 1200 miles of riding each winter on my Road Machine with no problems whatsoever.

We've got a special going on at USA Sports Training through October 31st, 2006. Two Spinervals dvd's and a bike computer included.

so everyone likes the trainers better than the rollers?

I'm considering a set of rollers...any comments?

jamesdemien said:

so everyone likes the trainers better than the rollers?

I'm considering a set of rollers...any comments?

I exclusively use rollers Kreitler Challengers (4.5 inch aluminum rollers) with the killer head wind fan (up to 1800 watts see the wattage chart below).. Kreitler are the real deal.

i would sooner push bamboo splints up under my finger nails that ride a trainer for any length of time... boring and destroy your natural spin etc... basically after riding a trainer for lengths of time means learning how to ride a bike again... i got rid of blackburn trackstand fluid trainer this fall...

the larger the rollers the easier it is to stay on them for longer... i'm going to get a couple of the flywheels this winter to improve the road feel even more... an mp3 player and some good tunes and you're off to the races.

product page
wattage chart

I have both the Kurt Kinetic trainer customized by Analytic cycling and I recently purchased Tru-Trainer rollers.... I LOVE the rollers. Did 2 hours on them @275 watts the first ride and used them again this morining for about 1 3/4 hours. The feel with the built in flywheel is amazing....standing up seems natural and the coastdown time is 20-30 seconds. I would recommend you check them out. As a note I have no affiliation with either KK or trutrainer.

jamesdemien said:

so everyone likes the trainers better than the rollers?

I'm considering a set of rollers...any comments?

greenrhino said:

I have both the Kurt Kinetic trainer customized by Analytic cycling and I recently purchased Tru-Trainer rollers.... I LOVE the rollers. Did 2 hours on them @275 watts the first ride and used them again this morining for about 1 3/4 hours. The feel with the built in flywheel is amazing....standing up seems natural and the coastdown time is 20-30 seconds. I would recommend you check them out. As a note I have no affiliation with either KK or trutrainer.

yeah.. i saw those... pretty awewome, super high quality! i'd love to have a resistance unit that was much quieter than the fan i have on my Kreitlers and completely integrated resistance and flywheel with no add on things sticking out.. the only thing is the amount of resistance... what do they max out at? i do 1 min intervals in the ~500W range is that possible on these? i like the platform thing too... right now i use a large socket wrenche case of for the same purpose. if i didn't have the Kreitlers already i'd be looking at these very seriously. Kreitler needs to make some sort of fluid resistance unit.. the fan is really effective but crank them up to 800-900W and you'd swear a 747 was taking off...

here's a review of them at Pez - pezcyclingnews.compezcyclingnews.comOpen ↗

I am looking at the Kinetics fluid trainer mainly because its quiet and has a decent amount of resistance. But then i test rode the same night the Inside Ride e-motion rollers which was alluded to here. A roller you can get out of the saddle and sprint on and not kill yourself.I would think that by combining rollers that have the "free motion" with your regular training would yield benefits for all racers. ON the one hand you can do sprint intervals using arms and upper body for balance and improved core strength and at other times concentrate on not making the rollers move on the base to smooth out the pedal stroke. Youve got to become a better (more efficient and faster) rider if you can apply force to the cranks more of the peddle stroke than just 12 to 4 and Not apply force when it has no benefit.

The hardest part is coughing up the $800 it takes to buy these rollers over $275 to $300 for a Fluid trainer. if your stuck in your ways and/or only interested in improving the engine, not the whole package-I would think any fluid or mag trainer would do.

doctorSpoc said:

I exclusively use rollers Kreitler Challengers (4.5 inch aluminum rollers) with the killer head wind fan (up to 1800 watts see the wattage chart below).. Kreitler are the real deal.

i would sooner push bamboo splints up under my finger nails that ride a trainer for any length of time... boring and destroy your natural spin etc... basically after riding a trainer for lengths of time means learning how to ride a bike again... i got rid of blackburn trackstand fluid trainer this fall...

the larger the rollers the easier it is to stay on them for longer... i'm going to get a couple of the flywheels this winter to improve the road feel even more... an mp3 player and some good tunes and you're off to the races.

product page
wattage chart

good points!

Doc said:

I would sooner push bamboo splints up under my finger nails that ride a trainer for any length of time... boring and destroy your natural spin etc... basically after riding a trainer for lengths of time means learning how to ride a bike again...

I agree...my trainer is on permanent loan to someone who loaned it to their mother who probably doesnt even ride it...

I ordered a set of the Challengers and hopefully they'll show up this week. I tried some at a local bike shop on a women's cruiser and I think I can handle it...

rayhuang said:

...the Inside Ride e-motion rollers which was alluded to here. A roller you can get out of the saddle and sprint on and not kill yourself.....

These or the Tru Motion rollers look really good to me. I've been riding a set of vintage Kreitler's for years and I can carefully ride no hands or stand up to stretch out (necessary for rides over about 40 minutes) but the idea of rollers that you can actually jump out of the saddle and sprint hard or rollers that let you coast a bit (or better yet both, do the e-motions have any sort of flywheel to carry some momentum?) sounds great for someone who lives in a place with winter days at 20 below zero (farenheit that is).

Personally I use a trainer for focused power training in the higher zones and rollers to log distance at L2/L3. I also like rollers for working on smooth high cadence stuff. I sure don't want to fan the flames of any circular pedalling arguments but I do see value in high and low cadence work across the various power ranges(think quadrant analysis) and rollers are nice for high cadence work.

-Dave

daveryanwyoming said:

These or the Tru Motion rollers look really good to me. I've been riding a set of vintage Kreitler's for years and I can carefully ride no hands or stand up to stretch out (necessary for rides over about 40 minutes) but the idea of rollers that you can actually jump out of the saddle and sprint hard or rollers that let you coast a bit (or better yet both, do the e-motions have any sort of flywheel to carry some momentum?) sounds great for someone who lives in a place with winter days at 20 below zero (farenheit that is).

Both the Inside Ride E-Motion and the TruTrainer look very tempting to me. Both have flywheels and resistance (maybe I should just get the flywheel and fan attachments for my Kreitler Challenger), but they have their individual features: the E-Motion has its free motion, guide wheels, and variable resistance, and the TruTrainer has exceptional build quality and folding and platform options.

Comparisons between several rollers (the site also has individual reviews of the E-Motion and TruTrainer):
fixedgearfever.commodules.phpOpen ↗

I have a old pair of cycleops rollers that I use once n a while. I am not the greatest on them but can sprint in the saddle briefly. Can anyone that has ridden them give me a comparison for sprinting out of the saddle on the emotion rollers compared to a "normal" set of rollers. Can a normal rider really sprint on them or is this a fantasy

I hadnt ridden rollers in 18 years and even then I only tried them a few times very shakily. I was up and rolling on the e-motions immediately and was in a big gear seated stomp after only 3 or 4 minutes on it. I easily clipped in and clipped out and got off with no drama. I can easily see myself sprinting out of the saddle within 30 minutes of using them.

The ONLY thing keeping me from getting them is price. I just dont have $800!!

I talked to my coach and we agreed that this sort of thing will keep you on the bike more in the winter than a stationary trainer. Its more fun and you can sprint/coast, steer a bit.

rayhuang said:

I hadnt ridden rollers in 18 years and even then I only tried them a few times very shakily. I was up and rolling on the e-motions immediately and was in a big gear seated stomp after only 3 or 4 minutes on it. I easily clipped in and clipped out and got off with no drama. I can easily see myself sprinting out of the saddle within 30 minutes of using them.

The ONLY thing keeping me from getting them is price. I just dont have $800!!

I talked to my coach and we agreed that this sort of thing will keep you on the bike more in the winter than a stationary trainer. Its more fun and you can sprint/coast, steer a bit.

I have a CycleOps Fluid2 that I hardly use, except for pre-race warm up, so it's a waste for me. You can save a little money by getting the kreitler dyno lyte/myte. I have the dyno lyte with the fan. I've got a double flywheel on order. Year round, I log more miles on the rollers than road. It has helped me ride a straight line when I do go on the road. I can do up to L6 intervals on it, which for me, is not that high of a wattage.

Plus, despite my LBS's assurance that I can, I did not want to subject my super-light Ti frame to the stresses of a fixed-wheel trainer.

Only drawback is placement. It requires much more floor space and I have to be next to a wall, to prevent rolling off. 🙂

workingguy said:

Plus, despite my LBS's assurance that I can, I did not want to subject my super-light Ti frame to the stresses of a fixed-wheel trainer.

I've always been afraid of that as well... The Kreitlers should be here on Friday... although its a beautiful day to ride outside...

workingguy said:

I have a CycleOps Fluid2 that I hardly use, except for pre-race warm up, so it's a waste for me. You can save a little money by getting the kreitler dyno lyte/myte. I have the dyno lyte with the fan. I've got a double flywheel on order. Year round, I log more miles on the rollers than road. It has helped me ride a straight line when I do go on the road. I can do up to L6 intervals on it, which for me, is not that high of a wattage.

Plus, despite my LBS's assurance that I can, I did not want to subject my super-light Ti frame to the stresses of a fixed-wheel trainer.

Only drawback is placement. It requires much more floor space and I have to be next to a wall, to prevent rolling off. 🙂

I have my cheap bianchi pista(fixie) that never leaves the trainer. It has a PT pro on it and other than the occasinal loaner race bike its an erg