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Design of cycle bridges

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UK and Europe
Published
6 November 2006
Last activity
8 November 2006
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Mike Causer
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  1. I have just spent an enthralling hour or so reading British Standard
    5400-2:2006, which covers the load calculations for cycle & foot
    bridges. Actually there's no such thing as a cycle bridge because you
    can't legally keep the peds off it, so the ped calculations are the
    worst case.

    So, suppose you wanted a modest bridge to convey an NCN route over a
    small river, say the River Cam for a wild, totally off-the-wall, nothing
    to do with what I'm concerned with, example. The span of the bridge is
    25 metres, and let's say that the width of the cycle path is 1.7m -- not
    ideal, not to standard, but the most we^W anyone is going to get. What
    load must it support?

    You can think about it, but you won't get the right answer without
    reading BS5400-2.

    Still thinking?

    How about 33 tonnes?

    Yup, for a narrow bridge for cycling over a narrow river, today's
    standards say you must be able to support 33 tonnes. Mike Burrows'
    8-freight must be able to carry more than I'd ever imagined!

    Mike

  2. Mike Causer said:

    I have just spent an enthralling hour or so reading British Standard
    5400-2:2006, which covers the load calculations for cycle & foot
    bridges. Actually there's no such thing as a cycle bridge because you
    can't legally keep the peds off it, so the ped calculations are the
    worst case.

    So, suppose you wanted a modest bridge to convey an NCN route over a
    small river, say the River Cam for a wild, totally off-the-wall, nothing
    to do with what I'm concerned with, example. The span of the bridge is
    25 metres, and let's say that the width of the cycle path is 1.7m -- not
    ideal, not to standard, but the most we^W anyone is going to get. What
    load must it support?

    You can think about it, but you won't get the right answer without
    reading BS5400-2.


    4 pedestrians abreast, each weighing 75 kilos gives 300kg. Allow 2 per
    metre along the bridge, that is 50x300=15,000 kg.

    Double it for an acceptable margin for error.

    That would give the 33 tons quite happily.

    Now are you satisfied that the bridge will cope with a crowd
    chock-a-block across it?

    Seems like the BS are not BS.

    ...d

    Quoted message said:


    Still thinking?

    How about 33 tonnes?

    Yup, for a narrow bridge for cycling over a narrow river, today's
    standards say you must be able to support 33 tonnes. Mike Burrows'
    8-freight must be able to carry more than I'd ever imagined!

    Mike

  3. Mike Causer said:

    How about 33 tonnes?

    Plausible, though I haven't checked your figures.
    Crowd loading, you see. Crowd loading has occasionally collapsed
    bridges.

    Btw, you probably don't actually want to use 5400, you probably want to
    use BD 37/01 (being the 2001 revision of BD37). The BDs are what the
    highways agency wants. Mostly they modify BSs. Most local
    authorities go along with the BDs, on the grounds that the highways
    agency wants is probably a good thing.

    Most of the time, there's not much difference, to be honest. However,
    if you actually want to get into a cut-and-thrust with a
    professional, you'd be better referring to BD37.

    regards, Ian SMith
    --
    |\ /| no .sig
    |o o|
    |/ \|

  4. David Martin said:

    4 pedestrians abreast, each weighing 75 kilos gives 300kg. Allow 2 per
    metre along the bridge, that is 50x300=15,000 kg.

    Double it for an acceptable margin for error.

    That would give the 33 tons quite happily.

    I think they rate peds at 6/sq-metre. Times 1.75 for the overload
    condition.

    Quoted message said:

    Now are you satisfied that the bridge will cope with a crowd chock-a-block
    across it?

    To BS 5400 it will, but what is the likelyhood? That load on the current
    1939 road bridge would bring it down. (IMHO as an ex-structural steel
    designer.)

    Mike

  5. in message <[email hidden]>,

    Mike Causer (') said:
    David Martin said:

    4 pedestrians abreast, each weighing 75 kilos gives 300kg. Allow 2 per
    metre along the bridge, that is 50x300=15,000 kg.

    Double it for an acceptable margin for error.

    That would give the 33 tons quite happily.

    I think they rate peds at 6/sq-metre. Times 1.75 for the overload
    condition.

    But if they march in step at its harmonic frequency they'll still bring it
    down.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Now are you satisfied that the bridge will cope with a crowd
    chock-a-block across it?

    To BS 5400 it will, but what is the likelyhood? That load on the current
    1939 road bridge would bring it down. (IMHO as an ex-structural steel
    designer.)

    This bridge:
    http://pictures.mug-uk.co.uk/albums/Thursday02/DCFC0243.sized.jpg

    Now has a gross weight limit of six tons (/not/ six tons per vehicle). It
    is about 200 metres long and carries a main A road. It does have automatic
    weigh bridges and big red flashing lights at both ends, and big signs
    saying HGVs verboten, but...

    I mean, I'm not saying it's acceptable to have a main road bridge over a
    dangerous tidal estuary that is this weak, but let's have some sense of
    proportion. Is it better to have /a/ bridge that people need to exercise
    reasonable care in using, or to have no bridge?

    Sings at each end saying 'weak bridge: no more than twelve persons on the
    bridge at any time' wouldn't be /too/ hard to organise, would they?

    --
    [email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

    There are no messages. The above is just a random stream of
    bytes. Any opinion or meaning you find in it is your own creation.

  6. Following on from Ian Smith's message. . .

    Quoted message said:
    Mike Causer said:

    How about 33 tonnes?

    Plausible, though I haven't checked your figures.
    Crowd loading, you see. Crowd loading has occasionally collapsed
    bridges.

    Btw, you probably don't actually want to use 5400, you probably want to
    use BD 37/01 (being the 2001 revision of BD37). The BDs are what the
    highways agency wants. Mostly they modify BSs. Most local
    authorities go along with the BDs, on the grounds that the highways
    agency wants is probably a good thing.

    Most of the time, there's not much difference, to be honest. However,
    if you actually want to get into a cut-and-thrust with a
    professional, you'd be better referring to BD37.

    regards, Ian SMith

    Serious question:

    In Witham there is a perfectly good and very useful footpath/cycle
    crossing across the East Anglian main line. What an oooprtunity for
    feasibility studies...
    ....which didn't bother to ask cyclists where they wanted to go...
    ....and made up (and eventually after two years of hassling I managed to
    get the report) the idea that the line would be widened to 4 tracks from
    the present two. The report admits they havent actually got any
    evidence from this from Railtrack or whoever but clearly the objective
    of the exercise is to make this into a mammoth task employing
    consultants and options disappearing up their own slide rules until the
    money runs out or the rate payer foots a massively inflated bill.

    Here is the Q: If you increase the span by 33% what is the order of cost
    increase? (I know the total cost included approaches - let's just
    concentrate on the main span.)

    --
    PETER FOX Not the same since the bookshop idea was shelved
    [email hidden]
    2 Tees Close, Witham, Essex.
    Gravity beer in Essex <http://www.eminent.demon.co.uk>

  7. Simon Brooke wrote on 06/11/2006 23:34 +0100:

    Quoted message said:


    Sings at each end saying 'weak bridge: no more than twelve persons on the
    bridge at any time' wouldn't be /too/ hard to organise, would they?

    I like the concept of choral advice ;-) But you mean like the signs at
    the entry to towns and villages saying no more than 30mph?

    --
    Tony

    "Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
    his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
    - Leonardo da Vinci

  8. Mike Causer said:
    David Martin said:

    4 pedestrians abreast, each weighing 75 kilos gives 300kg. Allow 2 per
    metre along the bridge, that is 50x300=15,000 kg.

    Double it for an acceptable margin for error.

    That would give the 33 tons quite happily.

    I think they rate peds at 6/sq-metre. Times 1.75 for the overload
    condition.

    5 kN/m2 - 500 kg per square metre. Longer spans (over 36m loaded
    length) have a lower figure, as do bridges wider than 2m. Footways
    alongside a roadway also have a lower figure.

    Load factor is 1.5 for pedestrian loading, and effectively a further
    1.1 (though there are subtle issues relating to that one, concerning
    whether it's actually a factor on the loading) giving an effective
    1.65.

    regards, Ian SMith
    --
    |\ /| no .sig
    |o o|
    |/ \|

  9. Ian Smith said:
    Mike Causer said:
    David Martin said:

    4 pedestrians abreast, each weighing 75 kilos gives 300kg. Allow 2 per
    metre along the bridge, that is 50x300=15,000 kg.

    Double it for an acceptable margin for error.

    That would give the 33 tons quite happily.

    I think they rate peds at 6/sq-metre. Times 1.75 for the overload
    condition.

    5 kN/m2 - 500 kg per square metre. Longer spans (over 36m loaded
    length) have a lower figure, as do bridges wider than 2m. Footways
    alongside a roadway also have a lower figure.

    Load factor is 1.5 for pedestrian loading, and effectively a further
    1.1 (though there are subtle issues relating to that one, concerning
    whether it's actually a factor on the loading) giving an effective
    1.65.

    Well, I think my point was well made that it is not hard for a
    non-engineer to determine that the weight limit quoted was well within
    a reasonable order of magnitude.

    Intrigued by Simon's bridge - how do you limit it to 4 vehicles at a
    time? or is that per span?
    Maybe the main A road is actually one of these rural Scottish ones
    where busy traffic rates are counted on the fingers (per hour).

    ...d

  10. in message <[email hidden]>, David

    Martin (') said:


    Ian Smith said:
    Mike Causer said:

    On Mon, 06 Nov 2006 14:32:19 -0800, David Martin wrote:

    > 4 pedestrians abreast, each weighing 75 kilos gives 300kg. Allow 2
    > per metre along the bridge, that is 50x300=15,000 kg.
    >
    > Double it for an acceptable margin for error.
    >
    > That would give the 33 tons quite happily.

    I think they rate peds at 6/sq-metre. Times 1.75 for the overload
    condition.

    5 kN/m2 - 500 kg per square metre. Longer spans (over 36m loaded
    length) have a lower figure, as do bridges wider than 2m. Footways
    alongside a roadway also have a lower figure.

    Load factor is 1.5 for pedestrian loading, and effectively a further
    1.1 (though there are subtle issues relating to that one, concerning
    whether it's actually a factor on the loading) giving an effective
    1.65.

    Well, I think my point was well made that it is not hard for a
    non-engineer to determine that the weight limit quoted was well within
    a reasonable order of magnitude.

    Intrigued by Simon's bridge - how do you limit it to 4 vehicles at a
    time? or is that per span?
    Maybe the main A road is actually one of these rural Scottish ones
    where busy traffic rates are counted on the fingers (per hour).

    It's this bridge here:
    http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=268415&y=551235&z=3

    It was built of reinforced concrete in the 1920s after the previous bridge
    had been lifted off its foundations by ice(!) and destroyed; apparently
    corrosion has got into the reinforcement in the main beams and this has
    caused them to crack badly, and the foundations of some of the piers are
    also sinking into the silt. But it's too expensive to replace so a
    complicated system of lights limits the number of motor vehicles on the
    bridge at one time. Tidal stream is up to 4 knots rising and up to eight
    knots falling. Tidal range is about nine metres at springs.

    --
    [email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

    ;; single speed mountain bikes: for people who cycle on flat mountains.

  11. Peter Fox said:


    In Witham there is a perfectly good and very useful footpath/cycle
    crossing across the East Anglian main line.

    Quoted message said:

    the line would be widened to 4 tracks from the present two.

    Quoted message said:

    Here is the Q: If you increase the span by 33% what is the order of cost
    increase? (I know the total cost included approaches - let's just
    concentrate on the main span.)

    Ermm, I'm not sure where 33% comes in? I'm not sure I fully
    understand the scenario, but I'll answer some different questions and
    see if they encompass what you want:

    Typical price for a footbridge across two tracks would be 250k to
    design and install. That doesn't include for paying off train
    operators, and probably doesn't include possession costs. It assumes
    you can get a reasonable number of possessions. Basically, that's the
    easiest scenario situation.

    If you have four tracks, you'll probably try and do that in a single
    span - a central pier is a pain, since you need more possessions to
    put the foundations in, and it would need to meet collision loading
    requirements, so will be much more than is necessary simply to hold up
    the deck. A structure between lines is also a maintenance liability,
    and might obstruct sighting distances and whatnot. You really want a
    single span if you can.

    The span will be twice as long, but the approaches are the same size.
    Design cost will be the same (the main span will be almost
    off-the-shelf design). The main span is repetitive anyway,
    the approaches are more expensive per metre of structure. Probably
    50% more expensive to bridge four tracks rather than two.

    BUT (big BUT), with railways the cost is strongly dependant upon
    getting the structure in place - if you can easily get 24 hr
    possessions every weekend, and 6 hr ech weeknight, and there's access
    for a nice big road-going crane right up to the site, life's a doddle.
    If the only possession you can get is boxing day 2008, and the nearest
    road is the other side of a river and a couple of miles of boggy
    flood-plain, then it's more entertaining.

    A bigger span makes everything more so. You'll probably want your
    main span as a single lift - build it elsewhere, bring it to site,
    lift it as one piece and plonk it down. I've done that easily, when
    you can get a crane right up to the tracks, and with difficulty -
    lifting a bridge in over a house in one occasion, and a major signal
    gantry (nearly as big as a footbridge) over a warehouse on another.
    If your span is bigger, the lift is heavier, the reach is greater, you
    might need to tandem lift, and install costs can rocket.

    If you're just talking about a 33% bigger span, installation is no
    more complex, everything is easy, it might only be 10% more expensive.
    However, it's unlikely to be that straightforward.

    regards, Ian SMith
    --
    |\ /| no .sig
    |o o|
    |/ \|

  12. Do any of you engineers know what loads Tony "El Suizo" builds to ?

    http://ewb.rice.edu/infodata/education/ceve499/tonitheswiss.ppt

    Tim

  13. timhenderson said:

    Do any of you engineers know what loads Tony "El Suizo" builds to ?

    http://ewb.rice.edu/infodata/education/ceve499/tonitheswiss.ppt

    Sorry, don't do Pukerpoint. Does Tony have any non-proprietary formats?

    Mike

  14. In article <pan.2006.11.08.01.26.31.336133
    @firstnamelastname.com.invalid>

    Mike Causer said:
    timhenderson said:

    Do any of you engineers know what loads Tony "El Suizo" builds to ?

    http://ewb.rice.edu/infodata/education/ceve499/tonitheswiss.ppt

    Sorry, don't do Pukerpoint. Does Tony have any non-proprietary formats?


    http://ocw.mit.edu/NR/rdonlyres/Special-Programs/SP-721Fall-
    2004/90E6EDA0-6DFE-4FF6-98D0-38D40EE14FAA/0/lec_notes_27.pdf

    http://tinyurl.com/y6z5b7

  15. Peter Fox <[email hidden]>typed

    Quoted message said:

    Here is the Q: If you increase the span by 33% what is the order of cost
    increase? (I know the total cost included approaches - let's just
    concentrate on the main span.)

    As a guess, a ten times multiplier...

    --
    Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden]
    Edgware.

  16. Mike Causer wrote on 08/11/2006 01:26 +0100:

    Quoted message said:


    Sorry, don't do Pukerpoint. Does Tony have any non-proprietary formats?

    If you want I can pdf it and e-mail it to you.

    --
    Tony

    "Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
    his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
    - Leonardo da Vinci

  17. in message <[email hidden]>,

    Mike Causer (') said:
    timhenderson said:

    Do any of you engineers know what loads Tony "El Suizo" builds to ?

    http://ewb.rice.edu/infodata/education/ceve499/tonitheswiss.ppt

    Sorry, don't do Pukerpoint. Does Tony have any non-proprietary formats?

    Works OK in Open Office http://www.openoffice.org/

    Rather inspiring, actually.

    --
    [email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
    .::;===r==\
    / /___||___\____
    //==\- ||- | /__\( MS Windows IS an operating environment.
    //____\__||___|_// \|: C++ IS an object oriented programming language.
    \__/ ~~~~~~~~~ \__/ Citroen 2cv6 IS a four door family saloon.

  18. Following on from Ian Smith's message. . .

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Here is the Q: If you increase the span by 33% what is the order of cost
    increase? (I know the total cost included approaches - let's just
    concentrate on the main span.)

    Ermm, I'm not sure where 33% comes in? I'm not sure I fully
    understand the scenario, but I'll answer some different questions and
    see if they encompass what you want:

    I was thinking
    2 tracks = pier < safety space + track * 2 + safety space > pier
    4 tracks = pier < safety space + track * 4 + safety space > pier
    Hence doubling tracks doesn't double the pier to pier width.
    'safety space' being my generic bit of extra structure clearances.

    [Really informative answer snipped - Most appreciated, thank you]

    --
    PETER FOX Not the same since the bridge business collapsed
    [email hidden]
    www.eminent.demon.co.uk - Lots for cyclists

  19. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    http://ewb.rice.edu/infodata/education/ceve499/tonitheswiss.ppt

    Sorry, don't do Pukerpoint. Does Tony have any non-proprietary formats?

    <url:www.openoffice.org>

    Your existing database software probably opens it too. There is also a
    free reader available from Microsoft.

  20. Mark Thompson
    <pleasegivegenerously@warmmail*_turn_up_the_heat_to_reply*.com>

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    http://ewb.rice.edu/infodata/education/ceve499/tonitheswiss.ppt

    Sorry, don't do Pukerpoint. Does Tony have any non-proprietary formats?

    <url:www.openoffice.org>

    There is also a free reader available from Microsoft.

    That rather depends on your OS I suppose.

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