Deda tire data points

Wayne Pein said:

I bought a set of Deda Tre RS Corsa tires (biketiresdirect.com for $36
each) in part based on the good reviews the Giro d Italias have gotten
on rolling resistance tests. Prior to the purchase I emailed Deda Tre
and asked them about the Corsa (whether it was the same as the
discontinued Giro d Italia) but got no answer, so I took the plunge
blind. These are used on a race bike.

I was disappointed to find that they measure a true 23.0 (on Mavic Open
Pros, 14.5 mm inside width) rather than the 24.5 reported for the Giro d
Italia.

With respect, do you really think a difference of ~1.5mm in mounted
width will be a discernable issue?

Quoted message said:

They were also *very* difficult to mount. After mounting one
bead, the attempt to then put in the tube was a real bear. There was
very little space between the tire and rim to fit the tube in! I've
never had that problem before with a huge variety of different tires.
After considerable effort I got the tube in. Then, the last bit of the
second bead was very tight and I had to use a VAR lever to get it on.

I'm hoping that after pumping them hard they stretch to the point that,
at the least, getting the tube in is not a major chore. I should
probably check it out before I get a flat, because it truely would be
prohibitive to fix a flat on the road if getting the tube in is as
difficult as it was when the tire was new.

They ride nice, but I can't tell any real difference between them and
the previous Performance Forte tires

Surprise, surprise! I'd really like to see the results of a truly blind
tire test.

Quoted message said:

, which I think are a great value
when on sale, and might have purchased again, except they now only have
a belted model. I like that the Dedas are solid black because that hides
wet brake gunk as a result of a wet ride.

I've emailed Deda Tre and asked them to make the tire in 25 and 28.

I'm sure that will have a profound effect on their marketing plan.

Ozark Bicycle said:

Wayne Pein said:

I bought a set of Deda Tre RS Corsa tires (biketiresdirect.com for
$36 each) in part based on the good reviews the Giro d Italias have
gotten on rolling resistance tests. Prior to the purchase I emailed
Deda Tre and asked them about the Corsa (whether it was the same as
the discontinued Giro d Italia) but got no answer, so I took the
plunge blind. These are used on a race bike.

I was disappointed to find that they measure a true 23.0 (on Mavic
Open Pros, 14.5 mm inside width) rather than the 24.5 reported for
the Giro d Italia.

With respect, do you really think a difference of ~1.5mm in mounted
width will be a discernable issue?

They'll be a discernable difference in comfort if the pressure is lower too.
(Fatter tyres can take lower pressure before risk of pinch flat).

~PB

Ozark Bicycle said:

Wayne Pein said:

I bought a set of Deda Tre RS Corsa tires (biketiresdirect.com for $36
each) in part based on the good reviews the Giro d Italias have gotten
on rolling resistance tests. Prior to the purchase I emailed Deda Tre
and asked them about the Corsa (whether it was the same as the
discontinued Giro d Italia) but got no answer, so I took the plunge
blind. These are used on a race bike.

I was disappointed to find that they measure a true 23.0 (on Mavic Open
Pros, 14.5 mm inside width) rather than the 24.5 reported for the Giro d
Italia.

With respect, do you really think a difference of ~1.5mm in mounted
width will be a discernable issue?

Assuming that the extra width is in the air chamber, the tire could
have 11-13% more air volume. I think that could very well be
discernable.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

They were also *very* difficult to mount. After mounting one
bead, the attempt to then put in the tube was a real bear. There was
very little space between the tire and rim to fit the tube in! I've
never had that problem before with a huge variety of different tires.
After considerable effort I got the tube in. Then, the last bit of the
second bead was very tight and I had to use a VAR lever to get it on.

I'm hoping that after pumping them hard they stretch to the point that,
at the least, getting the tube in is not a major chore. I should
probably check it out before I get a flat, because it truely would be
prohibitive to fix a flat on the road if getting the tube in is as
difficult as it was when the tire was new.

They ride nice, but I can't tell any real difference between them and
the previous Performance Forte tires

Surprise, surprise! I'd really like to see the results of a truly blind
tire test.

That would be fun. Sounds like a magazine article. My vote for tires to
be included would be my favorite skinny (23) tire Veloflex Pave and my
favorite fat tire Michelin Pro Race 25, which by my calipers is 27. I
contend that I can discern a marked difference between these tires and
others of similar dimensions I have tried.

Joseph

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

, which I think are a great value
when on sale, and might have purchased again, except they now only have
a belted model. I like that the Dedas are solid black because that hides
wet brake gunk as a result of a wet ride.

I've emailed Deda Tre and asked them to make the tire in 25 and 28.

I'm sure that will have a profound effect on their marketing plan.

Pete Biggs said:

Ozark Bicycle said:

Wayne Pein said:

I bought a set of Deda Tre RS Corsa tires (biketiresdirect.com for
$36 each) in part based on the good reviews the Giro d Italias have
gotten on rolling resistance tests. Prior to the purchase I emailed
Deda Tre and asked them about the Corsa (whether it was the same as
the discontinued Giro d Italia) but got no answer, so I took the
plunge blind. These are used on a race bike.

I was disappointed to find that they measure a true 23.0 (on Mavic
Open Pros, 14.5 mm inside width) rather than the 24.5 reported for
the Giro d Italia.

With respect, do you really think a difference of ~1.5mm in mounted
width will be a discernable issue?

They'll be a discernable difference in comfort if the pressure is lower too.
(Fatter tyres can take lower pressure before risk of pinch flat).

Indeed, but the difference between a 23mm mounted width and one of 24.5
is quite small. You *might* be able to lower inflation pressure from,
say, 100PSI to 90PSI. Would that be truly discernable (discounting
placebo effects)? I wonder.

Quoted message said:

Ozark Bicycle said:

Wayne Pein said:

I bought a set of Deda Tre RS Corsa tires (biketiresdirect.com for $36
each) in part based on the good reviews the Giro d Italias have gotten
on rolling resistance tests. Prior to the purchase I emailed Deda Tre
and asked them about the Corsa (whether it was the same as the
discontinued Giro d Italia) but got no answer, so I took the plunge
blind. These are used on a race bike.

I was disappointed to find that they measure a true 23.0 (on Mavic Open
Pros, 14.5 mm inside width) rather than the 24.5 reported for the Giro d
Italia.

With respect, do you really think a difference of ~1.5mm in mounted
width will be a discernable issue?

Assuming that the extra width is in the air chamber, the tire could
have 11-13% more air volume. I think that could very well be
discernable.

I wonder if an ~10% difference in inflation pressure would be
discernable.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

They were also *very* difficult to mount. After mounting one
bead, the attempt to then put in the tube was a real bear. There was
very little space between the tire and rim to fit the tube in! I've
never had that problem before with a huge variety of different tires.
After considerable effort I got the tube in. Then, the last bit of the
second bead was very tight and I had to use a VAR lever to get it on.

I'm hoping that after pumping them hard they stretch to the point that,
at the least, getting the tube in is not a major chore. I should
probably check it out before I get a flat, because it truely would be
prohibitive to fix a flat on the road if getting the tube in is as
difficult as it was when the tire was new.

They ride nice, but I can't tell any real difference between them and
the previous Performance Forte tires

Surprise, surprise! I'd really like to see the results of a truly blind
tire test.

That would be fun. Sounds like a magazine article.

A lot of people who fork out big $$ for tires might be a bit
disappointed in the results. ;-)

Quoted message said:

My vote for tires to
be included would be my favorite skinny (23) tire Veloflex Pave and my
favorite fat tire Michelin Pro Race 25, which by my calipers is 27. I
contend that I can discern a marked difference between these tires and
others of similar dimensions I have tried.

Well 23mm v. 27mm is a larger difference than the ~1.5mm difference the
OP was concerned about. I wouldn't be at all surprised if that
difference *was* discernable.

Ozark Bicycle said:

Quoted message said:

Ozark Bicycle said:

Wayne Pein wrote:
> I bought a set of Deda Tre RS Corsa tires (biketiresdirect.com for $36
> each) in part based on the good reviews the Giro d Italias have gotten
> on rolling resistance tests. Prior to the purchase I emailed Deda Tre
> and asked them about the Corsa (whether it was the same as the
> discontinued Giro d Italia) but got no answer, so I took the plunge
> blind. These are used on a race bike.
>
> I was disappointed to find that they measure a true 23.0 (on Mavic Open
> Pros, 14.5 mm inside width) rather than the 24.5 reported for the Giro d
> Italia.

With respect, do you really think a difference of ~1.5mm in mounted
width will be a discernable issue?

Assuming that the extra width is in the air chamber, the tire could
have 11-13% more air volume. I think that could very well be
discernable.

I wonder if an ~10% difference in inflation pressure would be
discernable.

I think that would be the only thing that would be discernable. The
larger size would allow a lower pressure and this pressure would be
what would be discernabel, not the size of the air chamber. Running
them at the same pressure might make the bigger one feel worse!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>They were also *very* difficult to mount. After mounting one
> bead, the attempt to then put in the tube was a real bear. There was
> very little space between the tire and rim to fit the tube in! I've
> never had that problem before with a huge variety of different tires.
> After considerable effort I got the tube in. Then, the last bit of the
> second bead was very tight and I had to use a VAR lever to get it on.
>
> I'm hoping that after pumping them hard they stretch to the point that,
> at the least, getting the tube in is not a major chore. I should
> probably check it out before I get a flat, because it truely would be
> prohibitive to fix a flat on the road if getting the tube in is as
> difficult as it was when the tire was new.
>
> They ride nice, but I can't tell any real difference between them and
> the previous Performance Forte tires

Surprise, surprise! I'd really like to see the results of a truly blind
tire test.

That would be fun. Sounds like a magazine article.

A lot of people who fork out big $$ for tires might be a bit
disappointed in the results. ;-)

I'm sure some would be. I think appropriate pressure makes a much
bigger difference than the minor differences between tires of more or
less the same quality. I am always amazed at what pressures I see
people around here using. We have surfaces that range from rough to
criminal. (Passo dello Stelvio falls somewhere in between!) At some of
the races/rides I see people pushing 130psi into 20 section tires, and
these folks are not midgets. Neither comfort nor lower RR. I notice
that when in century type ride in a big fast group, when the surface
gets rough, my HR drops about 5 bpm. This is entirely conjecture, but I
think this is due to me not wasting so much power as the 130psi front
runners riding up and over every bump. For some reason extra rough
surfaces don't sap as much energy from me as lots of others. I
attribute this to my lower tire pressure.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My vote for tires to
be included would be my favorite skinny (23) tire Veloflex Pave and my
favorite fat tire Michelin Pro Race 25, which by my calipers is 27. I
contend that I can discern a marked difference between these tires and
others of similar dimensions I have tried.

Well 23mm v. 27mm is a larger difference than the ~1.5mm difference the
OP was concerned about. I wouldn't be at all surprised if that
difference *was* discernable.

I was thinking about the Veloflex Pave 23 vs other 23's I've used, and
the Michelin 25's against other 25s and 28s. I don't really ever
compare the two to each other, but the Veloflex actually feel better.
If they came in a larger casing I'd have found my ultimate tire choice.
The only reason I use the larger Michelins is for protection from the
occasional sharp edged pothole.

Joseph

Ozark Bicycle said:

Indeed, but the difference between a 23mm mounted width and one of
24.5 is quite small. You *might* be able to lower inflation pressure
from, say, 100PSI to 90PSI. Would that be truly discernable
(discounting placebo effects)? I wonder.

I think I'd notice a 15psi difference on rough surfaces.

~PB

Quoted message said:

I'm sure some would be. I think appropriate pressure makes a much
bigger difference than the minor differences between tires of more or
less the same quality. I am always amazed at what pressures I see
people around here using. We have surfaces that range from rough to
criminal. (Passo dello Stelvio falls somewhere in between!) At some of
the races/rides I see people pushing 130psi into 20 section tires, and
these folks are not midgets. Neither comfort nor lower RR. I notice
that when in century type ride in a big fast group, when the surface
gets rough, my HR drops about 5 bpm. This is entirely conjecture, but I
think this is due to me not wasting so much power as the 130psi front
runners riding up and over every bump. For some reason extra rough
surfaces don't sap as much energy from me as lots of others. I
attribute this to my lower tire pressure.

That's interesting. I usually ride 28 mm tires at 100 psi. Over the
years, in leading rides for my club, I've had some riders complain
(more or less jokingly) that I pick roads that are too rough for them.

Now, I like exploring, so I do end up on pretty remote roads. And
while I certainly prefer smooth roads, I don't seem to be bothered by
roughness as much as they are.

I never bothered to note their tire sizes, except for one friend, who
proudly rides 19 mm tires at 160 psi. I'll have to note what size the
others ride.

- Frank Krygowski

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I never bothered to note their tire sizes, except for one friend, who
proudly rides 19 mm tires at 160 psi. I'll have to note what size the
others ride.

My favorite are guys who ride 20mm tires on the FRONT and 23mm on the REAR
pumped up in the 140psi+ range. They say its more "aero" and gives them more
traction. Is this something that Bicycling magazine preaches?

They laught that I ride 25mm pumped up at 90-100psi and think I'm a
"climber" when I stay right with them on climbs.

Ozark Bicycle said:

Wayne Pein said:

I was disappointed to find that they measure a true 23.0 (on Mavic Open
Pros, 14.5 mm inside width) rather than the 24.5 reported for the Giro d
Italia.

With respect, do you really think a difference of ~1.5mm in mounted
width will be a discernable issue?

Maybe.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

They ride nice, but I can't tell any real difference between them and
the previous Performance Forte tires

Surprise, surprise! I'd really like to see the results of a truly blind
tire test.

Since the Perf tires are the exact same size and similar in
construction, it is not surprising.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've emailed Deda Tre and asked them to make the tire in 25 and 28.

I'm sure that will have a profound effect on their marketing plan.

I'm sure that if nobody says anything, it is certain it will have zero
effect on their marketing plan.

Wayne

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

That would be fun. Sounds like a magazine article. My vote for tires to
be included would be my favorite skinny (23) tire Veloflex Pave and my
favorite fat tire Michelin Pro Race 25, which by my calipers is 27. I
contend that I can discern a marked difference between these tires and
others of similar dimensions I have tried.

Another data point: the Serfas 630x32 measure 28 mm wide.

--
Michael Press