Dear Carl, (and everyone else)
Yes I'm in Japan, but the point I was making is that until now I could get Shimano parts way
cheaper mail order than I could here (unless on sale, then all bets are off) as usually a Japanese
Bike shop sells only at list price and no discount whatsoever. ( BTW that's not a new story with
us who live here, typically we can purchase Japanese made items from the states for anywhere from
10 to 30% less than what the product sells for here due to all the middlemen involved in the
Japanese market and I'm talking with 15 years+ of history living here so I know what I'm talking
about). That's why I found it very interesting that the new XTR (and presumably the new DA group)
was 15-20 percent more than the Japanese list price.
The current DA crank (7700 series) I think shows the actual cost to Shimano USA for shipping,
customs, handling, etc. with a fair markup to the wholesaler. Using the latest mail order catalog
the cost is around $200.00 (it's been that price ever since it's been out). That translates to a
45% reduction US retail (not wholesale) from the Japanese list price. CC's fall catalog doesn't
list a group price but the cost of the components is about $1620.00 giving a jump in price for
the group of around $500.00. Campy's new price list isn't out yet to my knowledge but with the
increase in carbon parts it will go up also but I don't think that much. So why have all the
costs (shipping, handling, etc.) increased with the release of the 7800 series 100% or more (and
only the new DA and XTR groups went up like this, 105 & Ultegra prices have remained essentially
the same)? For your theory to be true, all of the Shimano prices would have gone up a similar
amount, not just the new DA & XTR groups.
It seems to me that Shimano USA by choking down the mail order/web market to 6 "authorized"
stores is attempting to control the pricing. I believe it's legal doing it this way but the
result is the same to all who use the mail order to get what they want. Higher prices. Forget
Harris Cyclery. Forget Branford Bike. Forget Cambria, Price Point, etc. If you sell mail
order/web you are not allowed to sell Shimano products by mail unless "authorized". If you
violate that, then the position of Shimano USA is we won't sell to you. Period. This is not in
the best interest of us, the consumer.
If anyone is a "blood sucking capitalist" it's not the retailers being dictated to or the
retailers barred from being able to purchase and sell Shimano on the web or mail order, it's the
short sighted, myopic, self-important owners of Shimano USA. Apple computer did something similar
20 years ago and see what that got them (I think they have about 5% of the PC market now, instead
of the 50% or more that they once enjoyed. They too jacked up prices well beyond what their
computers were worth).
Bottom line, this move by Shimano USA, will increase the sales of Campy Record, especially if
Campy's new pricing for 2004 is less than that of Shimano USA. And they are forgetting that while
Lance is riding Shimano equipped bikes, it's the man who won 5 Tours de France, not the equipment.
I'll let all know what the Japanese pricing for the DA group when I find out.
Cheers!
Stu
Carl Fogel said:"Stuart J. Armour" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...
Quoted message said:It's been a while since I've posted but I thought you would find this interesting given Shimano
USA's decision to only allow 6 mail/web order retailers.
2003 XTR crank - mail order $450.00 or so, here in Japan list price is 43,000 yen or about
$400.00 (it was on sale this weekend at my LBS for 34,000 yen, about $280.00) 2003 DA crank -
mail order $200.00 or so, Japan list 36,000 yen or about $300.00
[snip]
Quoted message said:Stu
Dear Stu,
Forgive my ignorance, but I'm guessing that you're in Japan, that the Shimano cranks are
manufactured there, and that you're comparing the prices for cranks shipped from a Japanese
factory to a Japanese bike shop and picked up by customers, to the prices for the same cranks
shipped from Japan to mail order warehouses in the U.S. and then shipped to private homes.
Years ago, a Honda motorcycle dealer patiently explained to me that yes, the clutch lever was
expensive, but that it took half a dozen people to get it into my grubby little paws between
Colorado and Japan, and they all liked to feed their families, so maybe I shouldn't have broken it
in the first place.
It's not as if shipping is free, running a mail order house is a charity, or Shimano cranks are a
high-volume, low-margin business. It's a luxury trade, with luxury prices. Curse that evil Sheldon
Brown, that wicked Andrew Muzi, and all those other dealers for not offering me parts at cost!
Another way to look at the vast profits squeezed out of the helpless public by capitalist
bloodsuckers is to compare their their apparent profits to the sales tax and the UPS shipping for
the item. On a $400 crank delivered to my door, UPS is likely to ask for $10-15 to cover shipping
and insurance, while my city, county, and state firmly (but mistakenly) believe that I will pay
$29.60 in taxes. Should the middle-men who do far more settle for a lot less?
The bicycle-parts middle-men are unlikely to have the economies of scale enjoyed by UPS and the
government. Until you've run a successful mail-order house or local bike shop for a few years,
beware of setting their prices to suit your convenience.
(No, I'm not a bicycle dealer. I do, occasionally, have to explain to medical offices that I don't
drive across town to plug their printers back in for less than they tip the pizza delivery-man.)
But it certainly is interesting to see what people are paying for bicycle parts elsewhere--thanks!
Carl Fogel
--
"Refrain from throwing your bicycle in public. It shows poor upbringing." - Jacquie Phelan
