Ksyrium SL vs. Bontrager Race X-Lite

Why do you say this......as they are likely stiffer.....??

SCOTTinNJ said:

I just bought a new bike (Trek Madone 5.9 SL) that came with Bontrager Race X-Lite wheels. I have a set of Mavic Ksyrium SL's that were on my old bike.

Which wheels are better for?

1. Hilly rides
2. Triathlons

The Bontrager's are listed as 640 and 850 grams while the Ksyriums are listed as 680 and 855 grams. I've already established that the Bontrager skewers are way lighter, and will be using those on the new bike no matter which wheel I go with.

My guess is that the Ksyriums are better for the hills despite the small weight penalty as they are likely stiffer. I'm also thinking that the X-Lites might be better in a triathlon, as I've heard the Ksyriums aren't that aerodynamic. Anyone have an idea?

Here is a novel idea, try riding them... Sorry for the sarcasm but it's only through riding them and through personal experience that you'll be able to decide.

Neither will be that great in a triathelon b/c tris are all about aerodynamics and both are lower-profile rims. If you want deeper dish wheels, look at some of the zipps. If you don't want to spend a lot, you can get some AC420s which have about a 35mm rim depth, and they can be had for about ~$400 on ebay/RBR. AC wheels aren't fantastic, but they're pretty decent, and from what I've heard, the 420s are significantly better than the 350s in just about all accounts. Also, Rolf makes some deeper rim aluminum wheels, so even those are an option.

As for hilly rides, I'd go with the SLs. I have a set, and I've been pretty impressed with their stiffness, plus I've never been sold on bontrager wheels.

How many miles have you ridden the Bontragers?

First, Ksyriums aren't stiffer than many wheels. In fact, every bicycle wheel comparison that measures lateral wheel stiffness (vertical or in-plane stiffness doesn't vary much among all wheels) puts the Ksyriums at worst or nearly worst in stiffness. There is nothing about the Ksyriums that would qualify as "stiff." The Ksyriums are also far from aero.

As for the Bontragers, well, they have issues, too. A known problem with the Race X Lites has been the rear DS hub flange going kablooey, and as a consequences, the wheel then becomes unrideable. Even though the hub internals for the Race X Lite wheels are made by DT Swiss, I'm not sure who designed the rear hub shell. Whether it was DT or Bontrager, it's a stupid design. Some claim that the issue was a spoke tension issue and that it has been resolved, yet still, the problem persists.

Neither wheel is the best for climbing...or for anything, for that matter. For the cost of either set, you can get a set of custom built wheels that blows the pants off the Ksyriums or the Race X Lites.

Weird .........because I know many of thousands of miles on Bontragers with no issues at all......any manufacture does and can have issues….how they deal with them usually separates the good from the bad.

Tim Lamkin said:

Weird .........because I know many of thousands of miles on Bontragers with no issues at all......any manufacture does and can have issues….how they deal with them usually separates the good from the bad.

It's a known issue for the Race X Lites. Check anywhere. Very well known issue.

You are right that anything made even by the best can break; however, from an engineering point of view, the Race X Light rear hub flanges are a stupid design. And then there's the whole "paired spoke" design which guarantees that you won't be able to ride if you break a spoke.

FWIW, the service from Trek/Bontrager on the replacement of my Race X Lite wheel was [censored]. About as slow as slow can get. On a scale of 1 to 10, their service gets 1.1.

I'll go further: the custom set of wheels that replaced the Bontragers--a set of Alex Crostini R3.1/3.2 rims; CX-Ray spokes 24 2x front, 28 3x rear; White Industries H1 hubs--blows away the Race X Lites in about every way possible. In fact my Reynolds Stratus DV tubulars wheels have proven to be more durable than the Race X Lites. The other downside to the Race X Lites is that they suck so much that everyone's got 'em for sale on eBay, so it's tough to get decent money out of selling 'em.

It definitely sounds as though you have an ax to grind with Bontrager.

bomber said:

Here is a novel idea, try riding them... Sorry for the sarcasm but it's only through riding them and through personal experience that you'll be able to decide.

Thanks, but I'm currently on the shelf with a plate and seven screws in my clavicle. I can be fixed but the old bike's frame can't -- thus the need for the new bike.

I will ride them shortly, but for now all I can do is ask the question.

Tim Lamkin said:

Why do you say this......as they are likely stiffer.....??

Just what I've read.

alienator said:

I'll go further: the custom set of wheels that replaced the Bontragers--a set of Alex Crostini R3.1/3.2 rims; CX-Ray spokes 24 2x front, 28 3x rear; White Industries H1 hubs--blows away the Race X Lites in about every way possible. In fact my Reynolds Stratus DV tubulars wheels have proven to be more durable than the Race X Lites. The other downside to the Race X Lites is that they suck so much that everyone's got 'em for sale on eBay, so it's tough to get decent money out of selling 'em.

Assuming I could get some $ for the x-lites, what is the approximate cost of the wheels you recommended?

Tim Lamkin said:

How many miles have you ridden the Bontragers?

Zero thus far. See above.

Tim Lamkin said:

It definitely sounds as though you have an ax to grind with Bontrager.

Why? Are you a mind reader? Show me exactly where the ax grinding is shown. I mentioned specific problems: poor hub shell design and bad customer service. How is that ax grinding?

Also, per your words, you implied that the quality of customer service was a measure of a company's worth. That said, it took me a month to get my replacement Race X Lite. That doesn't speak well of Bontrager, now does it?

Geez. By your "standards" of forum post interpretation, I guess then we'd have to interpret your words to mean that you're a Bontrager sycophant, right?

SCOTTinNJ said:

Assuming I could get some $ for the x-lites, what is the approximate cost of the wheels you recommended?

Well, as a rule of thumb, you could expect to get a wheelset that weighs less than 1400g--maybe quite a bit less--and is stiffer and more durable than either the Ksyriums or Bontragers for less than $600, likely a lot less than that. I feel funny about saying exactly how much I paid for mine because I feel that sort of thing paints a small wheel builder into a pricing corner.

alienator said:

Well, as a rule of thumb, you could expect to get a wheelset that weighs less than 1400g--maybe quite a bit less--and is stiffer and more durable than either the Ksyriums or Bontragers for less than $600, likely a lot less than that. I feel funny about saying exactly how much I paid for mine because I feel that sort of thing paints a small wheel builder into a pricing corner.

What rims/hubs/spokes are you suggesting he get for ~$600 that are lighter, stiffer and more durable than either the Mavics or Bontragers? I'm interested in upgrading my wheels, too.

alienator said:

Well, as a rule of thumb, you could expect to get a wheelset that weighs less than 1400g--maybe quite a bit less--and is stiffer and more durable than either the Ksyriums or Bontragers for less than $600, likely a lot less than that. I feel funny about saying exactly how much I paid for mine because I feel that sort of thing paints a small wheel builder into a pricing corner.

That's fair enough. Thanks for the info. Any thoughts on www.wheelbuilder.com?

bbattle said:

What rims/hubs/spokes are you suggesting he get for ~$600 that are lighter, stiffer and more durable than either the Mavics or Bontragers? I'm interested in upgrading my wheels, too.

Uhm, just about any. Rims aren't the only component in wheel stiffness: there is spoke lacing pattern, spoke tension, number of spokes, rim cross section, and etc. Again, you have to remember that the only stiffness that is relevant is lateral stiffness. Any differences noticed for in-plane flex, i.e. vertical flex, for rims is completely buried in tire flex. So for all intents and purposes, in plane flex is a non-issue.

My Alex Crostini R3.1/3.2 rims/CX-Ray spokes/White Industries hubs wheels weigh a whopping 1380g. I weigh in at 175lbs.

I think the cost of Race X Lites and Ksyriums is way too high, especially when you get zero performance advantage.

SCOTTinNJ said:

That's fair enough. Thanks for the info. Any thoughts on www.wheelbuilder.com?

Someone from Wheelbuilder.com showed up on the RBR forum and did a lot of trash talking about builders, so I consider Wheelbuilder.com to be less than worthy of respect. Their prices are also high compared to others.

My recommendations are these:

Ligero Wheelworks
Ergott Wheels
Odds and Endos
Speed Dream

Troy Watson (aka, Ligero Wheelworks) built my wheels. All of the above will build wheels that are at least as good as the Race X Lites and Ksyriums for less money. What is appropriate for you to use is best discussed between you and whomever is building your wheels.

alienator said:

Someone from Wheelbuilder.com showed up on the RBR forum and did a lot of trash talking about builders, so I consider Wheelbuilder.com to be less than worthy of respect. Their prices are also high compared to others.

My recommendations are these:

Ligero Wheelworks
Ergott Wheels
Odds and Endos
Speed Dream

Troy Watson (aka, Ligero Wheelworks) built my wheels. All of the above will build wheels that are at least as good as the Race X Lites and Ksyriums for less money. What is appropriate for you to use is best discussed between you and whomever is building your wheels.

Thanks. Will look into those options if I decide to (and can) sell the x-lites.