Training for the 4000km pursuit

robxs1 said:

Hi
I am new enough to track racing and I plan to concentrate on the 4km for the next year with the aim of next years world cup. my best time is 4.45 and I seem to have hit a brick wall with regard to improving. Flying 2k is an equally week 2.16. My idea is to improve this 2km time by using 5min SE on hills comlemented with 30sec on 30sec off x 15 min twice on ergo trainer. Am I barking up the wrong tree, should I be focusing on LT ie 3x20min or does the body just respond to specific training adaptions ie 8x4min (this is where I have hit the brick wall with training)!🙁
Any thoughts are appreciated!

4000KM damn that is a long pursuit race. How big is the track? :-)

BottleCage said:

4000KM damn that is a long pursuit race. How big is the tr ack? :-)

Woops, bit of a slip there😄 just the normal 4km, its still though tho!

robxs1 said:

Hi
I am new enough to track racing and I plan to concentrate on the 4km for the next year with the aim of next years world cup. my best time is 4.45 and I seem to have hit a brick wall with regard to improving. Flying 2k is an equally week 2.16. My idea is to improve this 2km time by using 5min SE on hills comlemented with 30sec on 30sec off x 15 min twice on ergo trainer. Am I barking up the wrong tree, should I be focusing on LT ie 3x20min or does the body just respond to specific training adaptions ie 8x4min (this is where I have hit the brick wall with training)!🙁
Any thoughts are appreciated!

This might give you some ideas:

http://www.fixedgearfever.com/downloads/PASO.ppt

Andy Coggan

acoggan said:

This might give you some ideas:

fixedgearfever.comPASO.pptOpen ↗

Andy Coggan

Many thanks Andy,
the presentation is 100% what i need, being from the road mainly 40kmTT, I have spent little time training under 4minutes, lots of time @4min tho.. the amount of 500m and 1km is something that i am surely missing (slow starter too). :o
I would have considered myself ok-ish at understanding training, but this an-aerobic capacity is something that I had over looked (wrongly thought it played little part execpt for sprinters).
Guess sometimes one got to sit up and look where one's going from time to time!

I hope this thread doesnt die there. Its good reading when you get Andy , Fergie and Alex talking pursuit.

I agree that Andy's powerpoint is some of the best training advice for pursuit I have seen. Obviously training with a power meter gives the best feedback on training and your progress.

I would also stress competition. Some riders can do very fast times in training but on race day with competition and an audience do not go as well.

Hamish Ferguson
Cycling Coach

fergie said:

I would also stress competition. Some riders can do very fast times in training but on race day with competition and an audience do not go as well.

I think it's a bit of a pyramid effect.. Too much competition means too much stress when it's not nessicary. You need to get competition-ready and make sure what comes on race day doesn't freak you out, but at the same time it can be easier mentally to not have to psych yourself up every week...but everyone's different of course😉

Jono L said:

I think it's a bit of a pyramid effect.. Too much competition means too much stress when it's not nessicary. You need to get competition-ready and make sure what comes on race day doesn't freak you out, but at the same time it can be easier mentally to not have to psych yourself up every week...but everyone's different of course😉

Good morning,
At present i have no power meter ... something I am seriously considering. Most training is taking place on a turbo trainer as the weather is not so good out. I do ten minute tests on the turbo trainer every month to access my fitness and direction of training, along with a ramp test every 2 months.The track (12hours away) gets a visit every month and shows an improvement since september, mostly I feel through pacing ie not going from 16.5s for the 1st km and trying not to do 18s for the last!!
I have tried, for 3 weeks( I believe to my expense) lower resistance and high cadence in all of my intervals before my last visit to the track.(perhaps only some of my intervals should be high cadence), my times were nearly exactly the same as they were 4 weeks before hand.
since september:
4km time 4min 50sec. (racing and prep for national 40km TT champs ie 3x20min)
ramp test 400watts 300 AT, 10min test on turbo trainer =4.1miles (ten min)
training sep - nov 3x20min x 3times a week, 6x4min x 1times a week up hill
ramp test 440watts 328AT ,10min test on turbo trainer =4.4miles (ten min)
4km time 4min 44sec
Training DEC 3x20min x 3 times/week high cadence, 6x4min on TTrainer again high cadence (too cold out). TTrainer 10min test 4.37miles (no impovement)
4km time 4min 44sec 😠 flying 2k 2min17sec.

Presently 1 week into shorter intervals. DR. ACoggans' pointers.
Also post from britishcycling.org.ukbritishcycling.org.ukOpen ↗ u23 team pursuit interview saying alot of work concentrating on flying 2km intervals mixed with standing starts.
This months Program looking like:
mon 30sec on 30off X 8min X twice
tues 4x2.30min x twice am, 8xstanding st. pm
wed 1hour rec am 6x3min pm (high cadence)
thurs 4x2.30min x twice am 8xstanding st. pm
fri off
sat 2-3hr inc 2x 20min
Sun 4hour in mountains inc 7x5min @60rpm.

Its first time doing short stuff..

World champs (very remote chance) in March..
I figure 480w is needed with AT 360+ fro time 4.35sec ... long way to go..

You have to qualify for World's. This means doing World Cup events?

Competition is important. It doesn't mean peaking for every event. Some events you would train through. Here in NZ our best indivdual pursuiter will start track training for Worlds 4 days out coming off a heavy road programme and lots of intense erg sessions. That being said he is very experienced on track having stood on podium at Worlds.

The Germans in 2000 started track training 14 days out and the entire sum of their race pace training (no overspeed) was three sessions of 2 X 2000m at 4.00 Team Pursuit Pace. Olympic Result was Bartko won IP and German TP won and was first team to break 4min for 4000m.

Hamish Ferguson
Cycling Coach

fergie said:

You have to qualify for World's. This means doing World Cup events?

Competition is important. It doesn't mean peaking for every event. Some events you would train through. Here in NZ our best indivdual pursuiter will start track training for Worlds 4 days out coming off a heavy road programme and lots of intense erg sessions. That being said he is very experienced on track having stood on podium at Worlds.

The Germans in 2000 started track training 14 days out and the entire sum of their race pace training (no overspeed) was three sessions of 2 X 2000m at 4.00 Team Pursuit Pace. Olympic Result was Bartko won IP and German TP won and was first team to break 4min for 4000m.

Hamish Ferguson
Cycling Coach

Interesting, I hadn't seen this thread earlier.

I just wrote about my team pursuit prep here:
alex-cycle.blogspot.comwinning formula.htmlOpen ↗

Just an update as I have learned alot in the past 4 years.

I feel a IP is simular to a 16km TT with a high strength element.

Training as per Andys power point really helped - intensive training all year around - make improvements all year every year.

If there was one tip I could give it is to do 'all out' 3 min intervals - 1 or 2, 3 times a week.

2nd tip would be 1hr -1.5hr tempo rides - most bang for your buck training ever.

Good luck