Andy Coggan, what's your training plan?

RapDaddyo said:

Let's see, what do we know about Andy Coggan? We know that he is a serious, competitive cyclist who trains and rides at a high level and has done so for decades. We know that he knows more about how the body responds to training and intensity of effort than just about anybody on the planet. We know that he is a physiological mortal (otherwise his FTP would be 400W instead of 300W). We know that due to time constraints he has very limited time to train and probably trains as little as anybody with an FTP of 300W or more. We know that he's willing to share his knowledge and expertise if we're smart enough to ask the right questions. I can't think of a better person to ask, "How do you do it?"

Specifically, Andy, I am interested in some details. How many hours per week do you train? How do you allocate your limited training time by level? What is your target intensity within each level? Does your target intensity increase as you approach your upper limit? How do you change your training time by level as you approach a target event? What would you do differently if you had 3-4 more hours available per week? What should we know that I haven't been smart enough to ask?😉

I'll be following this thread with close eye! Me and a few hundred other forum members. 😄

Wonder if he's still doing this...

[font=Verdana]In fact, several years ago my entire winter maintenance program consisted of just one '90/90/90' workout - that is:

5 min w/u
20 min at 90% of my in-season 20 min best
5 min recovery
5 min at 90% of my in-season 5 min best
2.5 min recovery
5 min at 90% of my in-season 5 min best
2.5 min recovery
30 s at 90% of my in-season 30 s best
2 min recovery
30 s at 90% of my in-season 30 s best
2 min recovery
30 s at 90% of my in-season 30 s best
2 min recovery
30 s at 90% of my in-season 30 s best
2 min recovery
5 min w/d

Do that three times per week, lift on another three days (for health and variety), use the seventh day to spend time with your spouse, watch what you eat so that you don't put on a lot of weight, and come spring you won't have any problem getting really fit again (at least I didn't!).[/font]

chanting.....AN DY AN DY AN DY...... 😄
😉

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NomadVW said:

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I'd say it's digustingly boring 🙂

RapDaddyo said:

We know that due to time constraints he has very limited time to train and probably trains as little as anybody with an FTP of 300W or more.

Actually...it turns out I trained the EXACT same number of hours as Andy last year...and my FTP is currently at 295W (and probably could be bumped up to 300W based on some recent workouts, but I'll wait for a test before doing so).

Why aren't you asking ME how I do it? 😄 :p

Tom Anhalt said:

Actually...it turns out I trained the EXACT same number of hours as Andy last year...and my FTP is currently at 295W (and probably could be bumped up to 300W based on some recent workouts, but I'll wait for a test before doing so).

Why aren't you asking ME how I do it? 😄 :p

Ok, I'll bite. How are you doing it?

Hopefully I can write a response that will prevent Dr. Coggan from having to write a sizable post explaining why his ‘training plan’ [or a specific outline of what he’s done in the past] wouldn’t be terribly useful.

I’m going to make a comparison of cycling training to dieting. Yesterday, an overweight co-worker handed me a diet that looked something like this:

Daily Menu Plans

Day 1
Breakfast: Toast with marmalade and fruit
2 slices wholemeal toast with 2tsp of low-fat spread and marmalade. Plus a bowl of raspberries.

Lunch: Turkey sandwich, chocolate mousse and fruit

Dinner: etc.

Day 2

Ad nauseum.

Look familiar to any cycling training books you’ve read?

Daily Training Plans

Day 1
2 hours in Zone 2 with 3 PowerIntervals of 3 minutes with 3 minutes recovery between.

Day 2
2-hour fast-paced group ride over varied terrain, constantly changing pace.

[Please excuse my Carmichael references; I find them rather nauseating, too]

As I have studied quite a bit about nutrition, when someone shows me a diet that purports one should eat certain foods or certain portions, completely inconsiderate of current height/weight/age/activity/other factors, it’s hard for me not to laugh. You too, should laugh, when someone shows you a training plan that is inconsiderate of such key factors, or more specific to cycling, current ability level, predominant muscle fiber type, or other things [going on would probably show my own ignorance].

I’m going to make some direct comparisons between dieting and training with power:

Calories are similar to FTP (watts) – your current intake or ability. Consume too many calories and you will gain weight; too little calories and you will lose weight. Higher watts -> more training stress, lower watts -> less training stress [over-simplified, of course]

Training diversity as similar to calorie breakdown [that is, carbs/fat/protein intake]. Just as you would not spend all of your training time at L5/L6/L7 [but you would spend some, in correct proportion to your goals], you would not eat half your calories from protein or only 20% of your calories from carbohydrates. The body needs a certain proportion of these things in order to maximize its potential.

I could probably go on, but I don’t think that’s necessary. You should know that dieting is truly about calories, and we believe cycling to be truly about power. Dr. Coggan’s aim, with his research and the questions he answers here on the forum, is to better educate us about how to analyze an individual’s needs in training, and through that specificity bring each individual to his or her maximum potential. Andy would probably admit himself that he doesn’t always stick to a rigid, outlined training plan, but rather looks at the data and has various indicators of what the proper training [or cessation from training] might be on any individual day/week. You have these indicators as well [average power, normalized power, TSS, TSB], and the one trump card, which is your own perception! If you can’t finish a workout, you’re not going to finish it just because it’s in the training plan. 😉

Here’s a quote from one of my favorite books: “You have learned so much, yet understood so little…” and in this case, I think we have all read quite enough day-by-day training methodologies that adding what Andy does to the list is not going to be terribly helpful. However, if we continue to piece together everything we’ve learned, and use the tools provided to us, soon you’ll start to realize exactly what YOU need to do. Trust me on this one! 🙂

-Eric

Bullseye_blam said:

and in this case, I think we have all read quite enough day-by-day training methodologies that adding what Andy does to the list is not going to be terribly helpful.

-Eric

You are right - we need training plans that suit us not someone else. But like RD, I'm interested also, mainly out of idle curiosity ..

With regards to everyone having their own plan, what is your opinion then on prepared training programs like those on TrainingPeaks ?

giannip said:

With regards to everyone having their own plan, what is your opinion then on prepared training programs like those on TrainingPeaks ?

for a majority of people they're going to be better than self-coaching. But, i'm positive TP would agree with this: not as good as proper coaching.

ric

I think that the biggest asset to having a coach is the motivational factor which of course is very important. Having engaged one for 6 months last year, I found that was the biggest positive.
Of course the training program was great but personally, a few positive reinforcements and tips are invaluable.

As any good Coggan cyberstalker knows back in the begining of this hootenanny he posted a summary of one year of his training to be found under the thread "Training by Numbers" on the Google Wattage forum:

I suppose Andy's usual caveat " never copy the training program
of a champion, because you don't know if they are a champion because of,
or in spite of, their training program. " applies even to him.

But more germanely I believe he cautioned even at that time about the
unique way that everyone responds to training so that what worked
for him for that particular year and those particular goals for that year
might not be helpful to others. It took me awhile to heed that cautionary
warning.

"Okay, here's a summary of my training for the past year or
thereabouts...posted entirely A) to illustrate application of the
classification scheme that I proposed, and B) to stimulate discussion
about how to "train using power".

For simplicity's sake, I've broken things into three periods: a base
period (could also be called maintenance), a pre-competition period
(training to designed to prepare for the racing season), and the racing
season itself (in a year in which I tried to NOT peak).

Period 1: 10/16/00 to 1/7/01 (12 weeks)

90 hours of cycling (plus 34 weight training sessions, not included
below), broken down thusly:

Level 1: 0 hours (0% of total)
Level 2: 58 hours (64% of total)
Level 2/3: 6 hours (7% of total)
Level 3: 2 hours (2% of total)
Level 4: 12 hours (13% of total)
Level 5: 6 hours (7% of total)
Level 6: 6 hours (7% of total)
Level 7: 0 hours (0% of total)

(A key workout I did 2x week during this period consisted of 1 x 20 min
@ level 4, 2 x 5 min @ level 5, and 4 x 0:30 @ level 6...I assigned each
as being 0.5 hours, 0.25 hours, and 0.25 hours in each of those levels
respectively).

Period 2: 1/8/01 to 4/1/01 (12 weeks)

103 hours of cycling, broken down thusly:

Level 1: 0 hours (0% of total)
Level 2: 54 hours (52% of total)
Level 2/3: 10 hours (10% of total)
Level 3: 12 hours (12% of total)
Level 4: 18 hours (17% of total)
Level 5: 3 hours (3% of total)
Level 6: 6 hours (6% of total)
Level 7: 0 hours (0% of total)

(A major part of my training during this period consisted of 2 x 20 min
@ level 4...didn't get in the 24 sessions I had planned due to illness).

Period 3: 4/2/01 to 9/8/01 (22 weeks)

256 hours of cycling, broken down thusly:

Level 1: 58 hours (23% of total)
Level 2: 89 hours (35% of total)
Level 2/3: 23 hours (9% of total)
Level 4: 28 hours (10% of total)
Level 5: 6 hours (2% of total)
Level 6: 12 hours (5% of total)
Level 7: 0 hours (0% of total)
Races: 38 hours (15% of total)

Now, a few notes/explanations:

1) For the above breakdown, I considered the intended PURPOSE of the
workout when classifying it by the level, not just the overall average
power. For example, with warm-up and cool-down an ergometer workout
consisting of 10 x 1:00 on/3:00 off takes me 1 hour, and so is
classified as 1 hour of level 6, even though only 10 min of that were
actually at that intensity.

2) I included the subcategory 'level 2/3' for longish group rides that I
do, where the average power falls within the level 2 range, but includes
a fair amount of 'aggressive' riding at level 3...in an ideal world, you
could track exactly how much and break them out seperately, but that's
beyond the scope of this post.

3) Why no level 7? Because I'm such a poor sprinter that it serves no
purpose trying to improve it. After 25+ years of racing, it is clear
that I get better results by instead emphasizing my strengths rather
than my weakness.

NomadVW said:

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Pass the popcorn .
😄

ccrnnr9 said:

Ok, I'll bite. How are you doing it?

It's pretty basic, really, but is so out of necessity due to the relatively limited amount of time I can allocate to training.

1. Train (and race) with a power meter.
2. Monitor TSS using the PMC. The idea is to ramp up CTL during "build" times and then also use it to monitor tapering to target events.
3. LOTS of SST (SweetSpot Training - mid to high level 3 to low level 4). My ATL manipulation is typically accomlished by varying the amount of SST in a week.
4. Sprinkle in some lunchtime hammerfests for level 6 and 7.
5. One "long" ride on the weekend that combines mostly level 2 riding with a ~45 min to 1 hour race simulation in the middle - i.e. the local Sunday "world championships".

Rinse, lather, repeat.

YMMV. Objects may appear larger than actual size. Some assembly required. Batteries not included 😄

Tom Anhalt said:

It's pretty basic, really, but is so out of necessity due to the relatively limited amount of time I can allocate to training.

1. Train (and race) with a power meter.
2. Monitor TSS using the PMC. The idea is to ramp up CTL during "build" times and then also use it to monitor tapering to target events.
3. LOTS of SST (SweetSpot Training - mid to high level 3 to low level 4). My ATL manipulation is typically accomlished by varying the amount of SST in a week.
4. Sprinkle in some lunchtime hammerfests for level 6 and 7.
5. One "long" ride on the weekend that combines mostly level 2 riding with a ~45 min to 1 hour race simulation in the middle - i.e. the local Sunday "world championships".

Rinse, lather, repeat.

YMMV. Objects may appear larger than actual size. Some assembly required. Batteries not included 😄

What's the warranty on that?

RapDaddyo said:

Let's see, what do we know about Andy Coggan? We know that he is a serious, competitive cyclist who trains and rides at a high level and has done so for decades. We know that he knows more about how the body responds to training and intensity of effort than just about anybody on the planet. We know that he is a physiological mortal (otherwise his FTP would be 400W instead of 300W). We know that due to time constraints he has very limited time to train and probably trains as little as anybody with an FTP of 300W or more. We know that he's willing to share his knowledge and expertise if we're smart enough to ask the right questions. I can't think of a better person to ask, "How do you do it?"

Specifically, Andy, I am interested in some details. How many hours per week do you train? How do you allocate your limited training time by level? What is your target intensity within each level? Does your target intensity increase as you approach your upper limit? How do you change your training time by level as you approach a target event? What would you do differently if you had 3-4 more hours available per week? What should we know that I haven't been smart enough to ask?😉

The expression "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime" comes to mind. Or something like that 🙂

rmur17 said:

The expression "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime" comes to mind. Or something like that 🙂

I agree. The "why" is more important than the "what." But, you can't get to the why until you understand the what.

RapDaddyo said:

Specifically, Andy, I am interested in some details. How many hours per week do you train? How do you allocate your limited training time by level? What is your target intensity within each level? Does your target intensity increase as you approach your upper limit? How do you change your training time by level as you approach a target event? What would you do differently if you had 3-4 more hours available per week? What should we know that I haven't been smart enough to ask?😉

Hi RDO,

Since Andy doesn't seem to be responding, I suggest you start a poll asking who would like Andy to respond. You could have just one option "Yes" and then we can see how many others are interested in seeing answers to your questions. I wanted to set up the poll myself, but can't figure out how this is done via this control panel. Perhaps you know how it works...?

JungleBiker.