Bike detection at junctions

Paul Boyd said:

So, is there a knack to making these sensors work, or is it faulty?

http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/8i.2.html

I'd say it was faulty though.

Anthony

On Fri, 26 Jan 2007 12:57:57 +0000, Paul Boyd

usenet.dont.work@plusnet said:

Have a butchers at this junction:- http://www.pbhome.plus.com/ashcombe.jpg

Quoted message said:

Here is the problem. When I cycle along that cycle-path, I dutifully
ride along the middle of the first diamond, and stop slap bang in the
middle of the second. Just occasionally, this will cause the lights to
change, so letting me out. More often than not I sit there like a lemon
watching the other lights go through a complete cycle missing out the
light I need, at which point I commit an offence by just making a dash
for it like everyone else.

This is where you're going wrong (IMO). Ride along the edge of the
diamond instead (as it says in Anthony's link). And if it doesn't work
report it. I've had great success reporting this sort of thing
directly to the relevant council department, rather than via a local
councillor or "local cycling bod". Of course reporting by all those
means might be the next plan if your first ones doesn't work.

<later> <googles>

It seems that particular lane has been flagged as a problem before,
although not specifically to do with the traffic lights. See
<http://www.n-somerset.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/91819E60-5FAC-406C-974E-C3947B1F4BBC/0/minutes_20060427_cycleforumminutes.pdf>

Tim

Tim Hall said:

Quoted message said:

Here is the problem. When I cycle along that cycle-path, I dutifully
ride along the middle of the first diamond, and stop slap bang in the
middle of the second. Just occasionally, this will cause the lights to
change, so letting me out. More often than not I sit there like a lemon
watching the other lights go through a complete cycle missing out the
light I need, at which point I commit an offence by just making a dash
for it like everyone else.

This is where you're going wrong (IMO). Ride along the edge of the
diamond instead (as it says in Anthony's link). And if it doesn't work
report it. I've had great success reporting this sort of thing
directly to the relevant council department, rather than via a local
councillor or "local cycling bod". Of course reporting by all those
means might be the next plan if your first ones doesn't work.

Yes, I try to have both wheels on the lines at the same time, to 'bridge'
the loop - don't know if it works.
It'd be v. useful if vehicles turning left and flaring out to the wrong
side didn't trip the lights. Had to jump lights once when a car did tis -
my way hadn't gone green after a couple of minutes, but at 0300 in
Gloucester there wasn't a lot about ;-)
--
Peter.
If you can do it today, you didn't put off enough yesterday.

Anthony Jones said the following on 26/01/2007 13:12:

Quoted message said:

Paul Boyd said:

So, is there a knack to making these sensors work, or is it faulty?

http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/8i.2.html

Thanks for the link - very useful.

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

Following on from Tim Hall's message. . .

Quoted message said:

This is where you're going wrong (IMO). Ride along the edge of the
diamond instead (as it says in Anthony's link). And if it doesn't work
report it. I've had great success reporting this sort of thing

No. This is supposed to work for any ordinary cyclist. If it doesn't
the fact that it is /possible/ to make it work by saying the magic words
or whatever is irrelevant.

Quoted message said:

directly to the relevant council department, rather than via a local
councillor or "local cycling bod". Of course reporting by all those
means might be the next plan if your first ones doesn't work.

BTW. If the lights cycle round all the others then they are clearly
defective and you are not breaking the law in those circumstances
providing you treat it as a give-way.

--
PETER FOX Not the same since the deckchair business folded
[email hidden]
www.eminent.demon.co.uk - Lots for cyclists

Tim Hall said the following on 26/01/2007 13:51:

Quoted message said:

This is where you're going wrong (IMO). Ride along the edge of the
diamond instead (as it says in Anthony's link). And if it doesn't work
report it.

Riding along the edge would be awkward, because each line of the diamond
is at a sharp angle to the direction of travel. The diamond is shaped
like on the playing cards, and it is just possible to get one wheel near
each apex.

I'm coming to the "report it" conclusion...

Quoted message said:

I've had great success reporting this sort of thing
directly to the relevant council department, rather than via a local
councillor or "local cycling bod".

The local cycling bod I was referring is employed by the council to look
after cyclists interests. I just can't remember his name or title off-hand!

Quoted message said:

It seems that particular lane has been flagged as a problem before,
although not specifically to do with the traffic lights.

Now that *is* useful to know - thank you. (But the cycling bod's name
isn't on there!)

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

"Paul Boyd" <usenet.dont.work@plusnet> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So, is there a knack to making these sensors work, or is it faulty?

Quoted message said:

Paul Boyd

I have had the same problem at certain lights. I have found a foolproof
method which works whatever bike I'm on. Find the buried grid near the
lights and get off your bike. Lay your bike down on top of the grid so that
it is flat on the road occupying as much of the grid area as possible. Works
very time.

Of course, look behind first for any approaching car which will do the job.

--
Simon Mason
http://www.simonmason.karoo.net

Paul Boyd usenet.dont.work@plusnet said:

Have a butchers at this junction:- http://www.pbhome.plus.com/ashcombe.jpg
[...] There is no pedestrian crossing here, so peds have to
run for their lives as traffic on the road coming from the top right
turns left at speed ("nice" sweeping junction), and visibility back up
that road is poor. Unfortunately some peds don't make it.

That junction is a dog's breakfast and I've been told that it's been
left half-finished. For example, the council maps show advanced stop
lines, but the road-painting isn't complete. I wouldn't be surprised
to learn it didn't have a safety audit.

I think there used to be an island in the T and pedestrian crossing
with road markings, with restricted turning into and out of the old
railway line road. I think you can sort of see the triangle in the
aerial picture and I don't understand why it was changed.

If it was changed for the cyclists: what a waste of money. The track
is fair enough, but that end section gives way to every road it crosses
and runs parallel to a road which doesn't merge onto a busy road for
access to town.

Quoted message said:

So, is there a knack to making these sensors work, or is it faulty?

If it's actually incomplete, the sensors probably aren't set for bikes.

Quoted message said:

[...] If the set-up is faulty, I'll quite happily
report this to the council, via the local cycling bod. [...]

At the last cycle forum, we were asked to report things directly
tel:01934-888-802 or [email hidden]
and only send things to the council cycling officer (Jonathan Gall)
if/when SOS [censored] it up, for various (IMO sound) reasons.

Quoted message said:

I'm sure MJ Ray knows exactly where this junction is!

Indeed I do. Now I avoid it by leaving the cycle track for Earlham Grove,
crossing Ashcombe Road at the mini-roundabout and then Clarendon Road
and Stafford Road into town. Only time I pass it is when bombing along
Milton Road late at night, going the long way round the hill home...

What do you mean, 'is my middle name Kibo?'?

--
MJR/slef
http://mjr.towers.org.uk/

On 26/01/2007 15:19, I said,

Quoted message said:

Now that *is* useful to know - thank you. (But the cycling bod's name
isn't on there!)

Whoops - yes he is!

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

Paul Boyd usenet.dont.work@plusnet said:

Have a butchers at this junction:-http://www.pbhome.plus.com/ashcombe.jpg

[snip induction loop woes]

Try stopping with one wheel on the edge of the loop with the direction
of travel roughly perpandicular to the edge of the loop. Then twitch
the handlebars once. This triggers the loop for the carpark gate at my
employer.

best wishes
james

Simon Mason said:

"Paul Boyd" <usenet.dont.work@plusnet> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So, is there a knack to making these sensors work, or is it faulty?

Quoted message said:

Paul Boyd

I have had the same problem at certain lights. I have found a foolproof
method which works whatever bike I'm on. Find the buried grid near the
lights and get off your bike. Lay your bike down on top of the grid so that
it is flat on the road occupying as much of the grid area as possible. Works
very time.

I used to do that a few year ago when I lived elsewhere. Unfortunately I
found that I would have to do this at a run, as when triggered the
lights went through their phase quickly.

At a junction near me now, I find that approaching the junction fast is
more likely to trigger the loops than slowly.

Martin.

MJ Ray said the following on 26/01/2007 20:13:

Quoted message said:

I think you can sort of see the triangle in the
aerial picture and I don't understand why it was changed.

Now you mention it, it does look like a triangle there. If there was, I
don't understand why it was changed either. Probably to give a better,
i.e, faster, traffic flow.

Quoted message said:

At the last cycle forum, we were asked to report things directly
tel:01934-888-802 or [email hidden]
and only send things to the council cycling officer (Jonathan Gall)
if/when SOS [censored] it up, for various (IMO sound) reasons.

Fair enough - thanks for the tip! Jonathan has got things sorted in the
past, but I'll let S&OS get even more fed up with me!

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

On Sat, 27 Jan 2007 01:51:45 GMT,

Martin Dann said:

Simon Mason said:

"Paul Boyd" <usenet.dont.work@plusnet> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So, is there a knack to making these sensors work, or is it faulty?
> Paul Boyd

I have had the same problem at certain lights. I have found a foolproof
method which works whatever bike I'm on. Find the buried grid near the
lights and get off your bike. Lay your bike down on top of the grid so that
it is flat on the road occupying as much of the grid area as possible. Works
very time.

I used to do that a few year ago when I lived elsewhere. Unfortunately I
found that I would have to do this at a run, as when triggered the
lights went through their phase quickly.

At a junction near me now, I find that approaching the junction fast is
more likely to trigger the loops than slowly.

Are you sure those are (still) using the loop detectors or are there
cameras on top of the traffic lights?

I've had similar problems where the (IR?) cameras are used where they
seem happy to trigger for a large slow moving car but not for a slow
moving cyclist. Presumably, the sensitivity is set so that they don't
trigger for pedestrians so you either have to be too big or too fast to
be a pedestrian.

Tim.

--
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t,"
and there was light.

http://tjw.hn.org/ http://www.locofungus.btinternet.co.uk/

Tim Woodall said:

I've had similar problems where the (IR?) cameras are used where they
seem happy to trigger for a large slow moving car but not for a slow
moving cyclist. Presumably, the sensitivity is set so that they don't
trigger for pedestrians so you either have to be too big or too fast to
be a pedestrian.

There was a notoriously bad set of lights near me where they were set
to stop the main road whenever there was traffic on the side roads
(i.e. no delay, that would just change). They were great because the
loops easily detected me on a bike but [censored] because I was going so
slow that sometimes they'd change back to red before I got there!
There was something wrong with the loops (definately loops, as this
was several years ago and they were ancient lights) because the lights
changed if you ran down the road!

Leicestershire haven't improved the lights I reported to them last
week (they may have adjusted them but they still don't pick bikes
up). These ones don't have diamonds, more of a thin paralellogram so
I think I'll try and ride along one of the edges as I approach next
time to see if that works.

peter

"Paul Boyd" <usenet.dont.work@plusnet> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Anthony Jones said the following on 26/01/2007 13:12:

Quoted message said:

Paul Boyd said:

So, is there a knack to making these sensors work, or is it faulty?

http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/8i.2.html

Thanks for the link - very useful.

ISTM that a wire coat hanger, hanging from the trailing edge of your
mudguard, aligned so that it is at rightangles to the rear wheel, might be
of some assistance in getting your bike detected.... :o)

On 27/01/2007 23:12, ian henden said,

Quoted message said:

ISTM that a wire coat hanger, hanging from the trailing edge of your
mudguard, aligned so that it is at rightangles to the rear wheel, might be
of some assistance in getting your bike detected.... :o)

I only ever use that route on my MTB, which doesn't normally have
mudguards :-)

....although it has at the moment, and the back edge of the rear mudguard
is about 2ft6in off the ground!

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

Simon Mason said:

"Paul Boyd" <usenet.dont.work@plusnet> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So, is there a knack to making these sensors work, or is it faulty?

Quoted message said:

Paul Boyd

I have had the same problem at certain lights. I have found a foolproof
method which works whatever bike I'm on. Find the buried grid near the
lights and get off your bike. Lay your bike down on top of the grid so that
it is flat on the road occupying as much of the grid area as possible. Works
very time.

What a load of faffing about. If the sensor doesn't detect me, then it
is broken. The junction is therefore treated as a 'give way'.

On 28/01/2007 22:29, Al C-F said,

Quoted message said:

What a load of faffing about. If the sensor doesn't detect me, then it
is broken. The junction is therefore treated as a 'give way'.

I was being polite in refraining from comment. I get enough odd looks
sitting there like a lemon waiting in vain for the lights to change
("He's a cyclist - why's he sitting at a red light?"😉 without getting
off and laying my bike on the ground. Once I've decided the lights
aren't going to change for me, I just do as you suggest - make a mad
dash for it. (Sorry - treat it as a 'give way'!!)

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

Paul Boyd said:

On 28/01/2007 22:29, Al C-F said,

Quoted message said:

What a load of faffing about. If the sensor doesn't detect me, then
it is broken. The junction is therefore treated as a 'give way'.

I was being polite in refraining from comment. I get enough odd looks
sitting there like a lemon waiting in vain for the lights to change
("He's a cyclist - why's he sitting at a red light?"😉

I got told that explicitly the other day waiting at a red light by a
passerby. I couldn't think of a succinct way of saying I was waiting so when
the car that had been stopped there caught up with me it didn't drive into
me.

A