7sp Shimano cogs on 8/9sp hub?

"Pete Biggs" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

1. Can Shimano 7-speed HG sprockets be fitted to Shimano 8/9sp hubs? Spline patterns compatible?
(I know respaced 8sp sprockets can be used for 7sp spacing, BTW).

Yep- I've done it, no problem...

Quoted message said:

2. What is the spacer size required to fit behind a 7sp cassette on the latest 8/9sp hubs? 3.5mm?
4.7mm? ...or something in between or anything in between? I realise there will be some leeway
in practice but it would be useful to have the correct figure as a starting point. My
confusion stems from the fact that Shimano 8 and 9sp cassette are slightly different in width
yet apparently they fit on the same hubs.

4.5mm, according to the Wheels Manufacturing site: NCS-4.5 - 4.5 mm thick. Also used for spacing a 7
speed cassette for use on an 8 speed body. wheelsmfg.comp freehubspacers.htmOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

3. Are there any other complications with this procedure?

thank you

~PB

Aside from getting your fingers all greasy, nope...

Jeff

Pete Biggs said:

1. Can Shimano 7-speed HG sprockets be fitted to Shimano 8/9sp hubs? Spline patterns compatible?
(I know respaced 8sp sprockets can be used for 7sp spacing, BTW).

So long as the freehub is hyperglide the splines will match. Make sure they are, there were some
Uniglide 7 speed cassettes, I have one, the splines on the cassette are all the same whereas
hyperglide have one that is wider to ensure all sprockets are fitted the same way. You have probably
already seen this on Sheldon Browns site

Quoted message said:

2. What is the spacer size required to fit behind a 7sp cassette on the latest 8/9sp hubs? 3.5mm?
4.7mm? ...or something in between or anything in between? I realise there will be some leeway
in practice but it would be useful to have the correct figure as a starting point. My
confusion stems from the fact that Shimano 8 and 9sp cassette are slightly different in width
yet apparently they fit on the same hubs.

If you are using 7 sprockets with a 7 speed changer the spacers will be as they are for a 7 speed,
you may need a extra one, at one end so that the lock ring gets tight enough. The lockring has about
3 or 4 mm of thread IIRC that takes up the difference in width

Quoted message said:

3. Are there any other complications with this procedure?

Not that I am aware of. BTW it is not difficult to swap freehub bodies, I have a 7 speed UNIGLIDE
freehub body spare, if you want it. HG sprockets can be used with some filing of their splines to
make them fit. This is not difficult when the sprockets are loose. I bought a new HG 7 Speed one
from Halfords about 6 months ago, for about £14.

Quoted message said:

thank you

~PB

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Pete Biggs said:

1. Can Shimano 7-speed HG sprockets be fitted to Shimano 8/9sp hubs? Spline patterns compatible?
(I know respaced 8sp sprockets can be used for 7sp spacing, BTW).

2. What is the spacer size required to fit behind a 7sp cassette on the latest 8/9sp hubs? 3.5mm?
4.7mm? ...or something in between or anything in between? I realise there will be some leeway
in practice but it would be useful to have the correct figure as a starting point. My
confusion stems from the fact that Shimano 8 and 9sp cassette are slightly different in width
yet apparently they fit on the same hubs.

3. Are there any other complications with this procedure?

thank you

~PB

Just read all the original thread now and I realise my other reply was not much use - sorry. If I
get time at the weekend I'll dismantle my Ultegra 9 rear wheel and see how my 7 speed cassette looks
on it. I can measure the cassettes with my vernier calipers too.

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Pete Biggs said:

2. What is the spacer size required to fit behind a 7sp cassette on the latest 8/9sp hubs? 3.5mm?
4.7mm? ...or something in between or anything in between? I realise there will be some leeway
in practice but it would be useful to have the correct figure as a starting point. My
confusion stems from the fact that Shimano 8 and 9sp cassette are slightly different in width
yet apparently they fit on the same hubs.

Using the data on SheldonBrowns site I calculate the following

7 Speed 31.85 mm wide 8 Speed 35.40 9 Speed 36.50

so the packing spacer would be between 4.55 and 5.65

however 8 from 9 (thats 8 9speed sprockets and 7 9speed spacers) comes in at
32.16 and will fit on a 7 speed freehub (I have already checked this) so the lockring will tighten
that far, we are now only looking at taking up 0.31
mm.

I may be wrong of course and I'll try to measure the things in practice at the weekend.

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"MSeries" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Pete Biggs said:

1. Can Shimano 7-speed HG sprockets be fitted to Shimano 8/9sp hubs? Spline patterns
compatible? (I know respaced 8sp sprockets can be used for 7sp spacing, BTW).

So long as the freehub is hyperglide the splines will match. Make sure

they

Quoted message said:

are, there were some Uniglide 7 speed cassettes, I have one, the splines

on

Quoted message said:

the cassette are all the same whereas hyperglide have one that is wider to ensure all sprockets
are fitted the same way. You have probably already

seen

Quoted message said:

this on Sheldon Browns site

You can't get an 8/9 speed uniglide freehub, and the hyperglide freehub will cope with both sorts of
sprockets, so there's no need to worry about it this way round.

(you sort of mentioned this later, but the paragraph I quoted looks a bit confusing)

cheers, clive

MSeries said:

however 8 from 9 (thats 8 9speed sprockets and 7 9speed spacers) comes in at
32.16 and will fit on a 7 speed freehub (I have already checked this) so the lockring will tighten
that far, we are now only looking at taking up 0.31 mm.

Ignore this its nonesense, you have a 8/9 speed hub not 7 speed

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Clive George said:

"MSeries" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Pete Biggs said:

1. Can Shimano 7-speed HG sprockets be fitted to Shimano 8/9sp hubs? Spline patterns
compatible? (I know respaced 8sp sprockets can be used for 7sp spacing, BTW).

So long as the freehub is hyperglide the splines will match. Make sure they are, there were some
Uniglide 7 speed cassettes, I have one, the splines on the cassette are all the same whereas
hyperglide have one that is wider to ensure all sprockets are fitted the same way. You have
probably already seen this on Sheldon Browns site

You can't get an 8/9 speed uniglide freehub, and the hyperglide freehub will cope with both sorts
of sprockets, so there's no need to worry about it this way round.

You are indeed correct sir, I have worried about the reverse problem and got it sorted. The more
usual problem is new cassettes with old hubs, not the other way round !!

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Pete Biggs said:

2. What is the spacer size required to fit behind a 7sp cassette on the latest 8/9sp hubs? 3.5mm?
4.7mm? ...or something in between or anything in between?

I find that a normal 7s spacer taken from between the sprockets of an old cassette is the right
width. Of course you have to either cut holes in it or punch the rivets on the new cassette.
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> Kill the tomato!

MSeries said:

and I'll try to measure the things in practice at the weekend.

Don't worry about doing that Martin - I know the width of Shimano 8 & 9sp cassettes from SB's info
(the fact that they're different is the source of complication/confusion). I think we're getting
there anyway: The Wheels Manufacturing size (4.5mm) [thanks Jeff] will be a reliable data point.

As you might have gathered from the related subject, I'm enquiring on behalf of Tony to confirm my
calculations. I think it'll be best if Tony fits the thinnest spacer that could work for the sake of
the chainline - to help angle of chain from middle or big chainring to the larger sprockets
(particularly middle to largest two sprockets if using a triple chainset). I think that'll be 3.5mm
so far (as the lockring should cope).

~PB

"MSeries" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Just read all the original thread now and I realise my other reply was not much use - sorry. If I
get time at the weekend I'll dismantle my Ultegra 9 rear wheel and see how my 7 speed cassette
looks on it. I can measure the cassettes with my vernier calipers too.

Hello Martin, as you probably realise Pete is going to all this trouble on my behalf (thanks Pete).
As the owner of an Ultegra hub perhaps you could advise me as to their suitability on a tourer? ie.
will they stand a wet tour without being serviced 'till home again? thanks, tony R.

tony R said:

"MSeries" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Just read all the original thread now and I realise my other reply was not much use - sorry. If I
get time at the weekend I'll dismantle my Ultegra 9 rear wheel and see how my 7 speed cassette
looks on it. I can measure the cassettes with my vernier calipers too.

Hello Martin, as you probably realise Pete is going to all this trouble on my behalf (thanks
Pete). As the owner of an Ultegra hub perhaps you could advise me as to their suitability on a
tourer? ie. will they stand a wet tour without being serviced 'till home again? thanks, tony R.

I have Ultegra on my Sunday Best bike, it is not used in winter and has done about 4500 mostly dry
miles since I had it built up. All those miles have been light, carrying only me and the few items I
need for a full day that fit in a saddle wedge bag and my pockets. I have not serviced the hubs at
all in that time, so it is not possible to say how well they'd stand up to extended loaded tours.
I'd be very dissappointed if they needed servicing after say two weeks touring.

My tourer has 1990 Deore hubs and have stood up very well indeed to long (6 months) loaded touring.
I would try to get top end metal mountain bike hubs for a tourer. There is so much choice these
days, what do Galaxies have ? Deore XT ?

Martin

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"MSeries" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

My tourer has 1990 Deore hubs and have stood up very well indeed to long

(6

Quoted message said:

months) loaded touring. I would try to get top end metal mountain bike

hubs

Quoted message said:

for a tourer. There is so much choice these days, what do Galaxies have ? Deore XT ?

Deore, not even LX.

cheers, clive

Clive George said:

"MSeries" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

My tourer has 1990 Deore hubs and have stood up very well indeed to long (6 months) loaded
touring. I would try to get top end metal mountain bike hubs for a tourer. There is so much
choice these days, what do Galaxies have ? Deore XT ?

Deore, not even LX.

cheers, clive

As far as I can tell (based on price and looks) Deore is lower down the foodchain than LX, XT and
XTR. Maybe checkout the customer reviews of the hubs on ChainReactionCycles to try to determine what
will last. Maybe that Deore are cheap because they use steel which of course will be heavier (than
other materials) but strong.
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Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My tourer has 1990 Deore hubs and have stood up very well indeed to long (6 months) loaded
touring. I would try to get top end metal mountain bike hubs for a tourer. There is so much
choice these days, what do Galaxies have ? Deore XT ?

Deore, not even LX.

Quoted message said:

As far as I can tell (based on price and looks) Deore is lower down the foodchain than LX, XT
and XTR.

As far as I can tell (based on looking at the specs, diagrams and part numbers when choosing a hub
for my brother's wheel [chose LX]) LX is very similar to Deore - just weighs a little bit less.
Freewheel body* and quick release skewer is different but the rest looks the same. Merlin Cycles
only charge £4 extra for their handbuilt rear wheels if ordering LX above Deore so that's another
indication of their similarity. I think there's more of a step up from LX to XT.

In any case all these are 135mm - which may be fine for tourers designed from scratch for one but
not so ideal when converting a 126mm bike without changing the BB & chainset.

* costs more to replace but I don't know if it's any more reliable. Might just be lighter (guess).
Otherwise/and quick release nut/lever must be lighter.

~PB

"Pete Biggs" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

As you might have gathered from the related subject, I'm enquiring on behalf of Tony to confirm my
calculations. I think it'll be best if Tony fits the thinnest spacer that could work for the sake
of the chainline - to help angle of chain from middle or big chainring to the larger sprockets
(particularly middle to largest two sprockets if using a triple chainset). I think that'll be
3.5mm so far (as the lockring should cope).

In the absence of any contradictions from the techies out there I'll take it that this is officially
good advice. Thankyou Pete. tony R.

"MSeries" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

tony R said:

"MSeries" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

As the owner of an Ultegra hub perhaps you could

Quoted message said:

advise me as to their suitability on a tourer? ie. will they stand a wet tour without being
serviced 'till home again? thanks, tony R.

I have Ultegra on my Sunday Best bike, it is not used in winter and has

done

Quoted message said:

about 4500 mostly dry miles since I had it built up. All those miles have been light, carrying
only me and the few items I need for a full day that fit in a saddle wedge bag and my pockets. I
have not serviced the hubs at all in that time, so it is not possible to say how well they'd stand
up to extended loaded tours. I'd be very dissappointed if they needed servicing after say two
weeks touring.

My tourer has 1990 Deore hubs and have stood up very well indeed to long

(6

Quoted message said:

months) loaded touring. I would try to get top end metal mountain bike

hubs

Quoted message said:

for a tourer. There is so much choice these days, what do Galaxies have ? Deore XT ?

It's very much a case of "I would if I could." It's an over locknut thingy problem. The old wheels
have (old) XT hubs. If they still made them skinnier I'd choose them again. Thanks for the answer
though. I have never toured for longer than 4 weeks at a time and more usually 2 so maybe the
Ultegras would
do.tony R.

does uncle knobby know?