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Help me with my homework? (muscle stuff)

Started by Raptor · · Last activity · 15 posts · 1,124 views

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Road Cycling
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29 October 2003
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Raptor
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  1. I'm studying for personal trainer certification. It's very interesting so far. I feel like I'll be
    ready for med school after this. These are questions prompted by my natural curiosity and my
    reading, but I doubt are part of any test.

    (Nomenclature🙂 Why do we have just two muscle types, if Type IIA and Type IIB are seemingly as
    different as Type I and Type II?

    What's a typical motor unit firing rate? How many action potentials can a sarcomere handle per unit
    time? (Depending, I suppose, on what "handle" means, and if there's a "typical" to be found.)

    --
    --
    Lynn Wallace xmission.com~lawall "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
    could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in
    charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

  2. Quoted message said:

    What's a typical motor unit firing rate? How many action potentials can a sarcomere handle per
    unit time?

    A single muscle twitch lasts for 25-50 msec; the action potential lasts < 5 msec.

    human.physiol.arizona.eduBurt.L3.pdf

    Google to the rescue.

    Quoted message said:

    I feel like I'll be ready for med school after this.

    Riiiiiiiight.

    :^]

    Keep going and good luck !

    John Wilke RN Milwaukee

  3. Raptor said:

    (Nomenclature🙂 Why do we have just two muscle types, if Type IIA and Type IIB are seemingly as
    different as Type I and Type II?

    Standard explanation: historical reasons.

  4. Quoted message said:

    (Nomenclature🙂 Why do we have just two muscle types, if Type IIA and Type IIB are seemingly as
    different as Type I and Type II?

    I believe historically at first only 2 types were identified, and then it was realized that there
    were actually 2 different types of Type II fibers once people actually started being able to detect
    differences in the myosin heavy chains (MHC) or the consequence of these differences. Now it is
    known that there are 3 types of Type II MHC (a, x, and b) expressed in mammals, although humans only
    express a and x, but not the fastest b isoform. But because historically, using histochemical
    staining for ATPase activity (which is determined by the MHC) established the nomenclature for human
    fibre types, you still see the 3 human fibre types given as Type I, Type IIA, and Type IIB (although
    expressing Type IIx MHC). Given that some muscle fibres also express combinations of either Type
    I/IIa or Type IIa/IIx MHC you end up with more of continuum of muscle fibre contractile
    characteristics rather than 2 or 3 distinct fibre types. You can also have differences in the
    mysosin light chains and calcium handling proteins that may affect contractile properties, and then
    you have differences in the amount of glycolytic or oxidative enzymes that will affect energy
    production and the fatigue resistance of fibre.

    Quoted message said:

    What's a typical motor unit firing rate? How many action potentials can a sarcomere handle per
    unit time? (Depending, I suppose, on what "handle" means, and if there's a "typical" to be found.)

    Typical average motor unit firing rates for whole muscle are pretty low, I believe around 15-25 Hz.
    A fast motor unit reaches tetani around 60 Hz, anything higher would be overkill. But you could
    drive the muscle fibres at higher frequencies using electrical stimulation. I believe you have to go
    pretty high (like > 150Hz) to start getting electrical fatigue, which i guess would define the
    maximal rate the fibre could "handle".

  5. Raptor said:

    I'm studying for personal trainer certification. It's very interesting so far.

    Does this help with your homework then? 15times.com01 the%20endx328.jpg

    (cplotm).

  6. Wayne said:
    Quoted message said:

    (Nomenclature🙂 Why do we have just two muscle types, if Type IIA and Type IIB are seemingly as
    different as Type I and Type II?



    snip

    Quoted message said:

    (although expressing Type IIx MHC). Given that some muscle fibres also express combinations of
    either Type I/IIa or Type IIa/IIx MHC you end up with more of continuum of muscle fibre
    contractile characteristics rather than 2 or 3 distinct fibre types.

    That's the impression I've been getting in my reading: more of a continuum.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    What's a typical motor unit firing rate? How many action potentials can a sarcomere handle per
    unit time? (Depending, I suppose, on what "handle" means, and if there's a "typical" to be found.)

    Typical average motor unit firing rates for whole muscle are pretty low, I believe around 15-25
    Hz. A fast motor unit reaches tetani around 60 Hz, anything higher would be overkill. But you
    could drive the muscle fibres at higher frequencies using electrical stimulation. I believe you
    have to go pretty high (like > 150Hz) to start getting electrical fatigue, which i guess would
    define the maximal rate the fibre could "handle".

    How does this square with my (or anyone's) ability to spin pedals at

    Quoted message said:

    150 RPM? Or stirring up egg whites or whatever? The muscles are


    contributing to cyclic motion faster than the frequencies you state.

    --
    --
    Lynn Wallace xmission.com~lawall "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
    could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in
    charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

  7. Raptor said:
    Wayne said:
    Quoted message said:

    (Nomenclature🙂 Why do we have just two muscle types, if Type IIA and Type IIB are seemingly as
    different as Type I and Type II?



    snip

    Quoted message said:

    (although expressing Type IIx MHC). Given that some muscle fibres also express combinations of
    either Type I/IIa or Type IIa/IIx MHC you end up with more of continuum of muscle fibre
    contractile characteristics rather than 2 or 3 distinct fibre types.

    That's the impression I've been getting in my reading: more of a continuum.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    What's a typical motor unit firing rate? How many action potentials can a sarcomere handle per
    unit time? (Depending, I suppose, on what "handle" means, and if there's a "typical" to be
    found.)

    Typical average motor unit firing rates for whole muscle are pretty low, I believe around 15-25
    Hz. A fast motor unit reaches tetani around 60 Hz, anything higher would be overkill. But you
    could drive the muscle fibres at higher frequencies using electrical stimulation. I believe you
    have to go pretty high (like > 150Hz) to start getting electrical fatigue, which i guess would
    define the maximal rate the fibre could "handle".

    How does this square with my (or anyone's) ability to spin pedals at

    Quoted message said:

    150 RPM? Or stirring up egg whites or whatever? The muscles are


    contributing to cyclic motion faster than the frequencies you state.

    150 Hz is cycles/SECOND, not minute!

    Steve

    Quoted message said:

    --
    --
    Lynn Wallace xmission.com~lawall "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
    could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP
    in charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

    --
    Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 dentaltwins.comdentaltwins.com

  8. "Raptor" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Wayne wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Typical average motor unit firing rates for whole muscle are pretty low, I believe around 15-25
    Hz. A fast motor unit reaches tetani around 60 Hz, anything higher would be overkill. But you
    could drive the muscle fibres at higher frequencies using electrical stimulation. I believe you
    have to go pretty high (like > 150Hz) to start getting electrical fatigue, which i guess would
    define the maximal rate the fibre could "handle".

    How does this square with my (or anyone's) ability to spin pedals at

    Quoted message said:

    150 RPM? Or stirring up egg whites or whatever? The muscles are


    contributing to cyclic motion faster than the frequencies you state.

    Hz = cycles/s

    RPM = rev/min

    I'll let you work out the conversion factor for yourself. ;-)

    Andy Coggan

  9. Raptor <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    I'm studying for personal trainer certification. It's very interesting so far. I feel like I'll be
    ready for med school after this. These are questions prompted by my natural curiosity and my
    reading, but I doubt are part of any test.

    (Nomenclature🙂 Why do we have just two muscle types, if Type IIA and Type IIB are seemingly as
    different as Type I and Type II?

    Because under an optical microscope you can sort Type's I and II visually. IIA and IIB
    look the same.

  10. Raptor said:


    Ewoud Dronkert said:

    Does this help with your homework then? 15times.com01 the%20endx328.jpg

    (cplotm).

    Not really, sorry. Just leads to more questions, though of a different type. Like, where's the
    front view,

    you can look at that and want to see a front view?!

    baffled, heather

  11. h squared said:


    Raptor said:


    Ewoud Dronkert said:

    Does this help with your homework then?
    15times.com01 the%20endx328.jpg

    (cplotm).

    Not really, sorry. Just leads to more questions, though of a different type. Like, where's the
    front view,

    you can look at that and want to see a front view?!

    baffled, heather

    goddam, i would make a terrible ambassador or public relations person. i *cannot* write what i
    mean to say.

    i just meant that it can't get any better than that.

    heather

  12. h squared said:
    Quoted message said:

    you can look at that and want to see a front view?!

    i just meant that it can't get any better than that.

    I know. I mean, I know you did 🙂

  13. Andy Coggan said:

    "Raptor" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Wayne wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Typical average motor unit firing rates for whole muscle are pretty low, I believe around 15-25
    Hz. A fast motor unit reaches tetani around 60 Hz, anything higher would be overkill. But you
    could drive the muscle fibres at higher frequencies using electrical stimulation. I believe you
    have to go pretty high (like > 150Hz) to start getting electrical fatigue, which i guess would
    define the maximal rate the fibre could "handle".

    How does this square with my (or anyone's) ability to spin pedals at

    Quoted message said:

    150 RPM? Or stirring up egg whites or whatever? The muscles are


    contributing to cyclic motion faster than the frequencies you state.

    Hz = cycles/s

    RPM = rev/min

    I'll let you work out the conversion factor for yourself. ;-)

    Andy Coggan

    Uh... I knew that.

    Now where's that damn calculator.

    --
    --
    Lynn Wallace xmission.com~lawall "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
    could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in
    charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

  14. h squared said:


    Raptor said:
    Ewoud Dronkert said:

    Does this help with your homework then? 15times.com01 the%20endx328.jpg

    (cplotm).

    Not really, sorry. Just leads to more questions, though of a different type. Like, where's the
    front view,

    you can look at that and want to see a front view?!

    baffled, heather

    Front view, top view, bottom view, upside down, rightside up. Feel, smell, taste, hear... Oh,
    mmm, YEAH!

    We now return to our regularly-scheduled newsgroup.

    --
    --
    Lynn Wallace xmission.com~lawall "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
    could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in
    charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

  15. "Ewoud Dronkert" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Raptor said:

    I'm studying for personal trainer certification. It's very interesting so far.

    Does this help with your homework then? 15times.com01 the%20endx328.jpg

    (cplotm).

    That has gotta hurt (and I know it fulfills the fantasies of a lot of folks reading this NG).

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