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any real test for puncture resistance?

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Cycling Equipment
Published
23 March 2007
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25 March 2007
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botfood
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  1. I am attempting to evaluate current options for road tires wrt
    puncture resistance; specifically to goatheads.

    I've read spin skins work for a while, but degrade, crack, and wear
    holes in tubes. true, or not? prevent goathead flats, or not?

    I've heard maxxis re-fuse tires work well... any real way to compare
    them against other 'tuff' tires. have there been any objecive tests on
    resistance to 'thorn-like' flats? any tradeoff s regarding weight and
    rolling resistance?

    obviously we all want a bulletproof tire that doesnt weigh any more,
    and rolls better.... does such an animal exist?

    are there current tests of actual rolling resistance (loaded, at
    speed) along with weight and puncture resistance measured in some
    objective manner?

  2. Quoted message said:

    Even a light hammer tap will put a goathead through a Mr. Tuffy:


    --------
    great picture!
    I am thinking that tuffys are effective (in combination with tire and
    tube thickness) on 'most' goatheads as are the super-thick tubes.
    However, I am hoping there are better alternatives? i.e. the internal
    kevlar belt in the maxxis re-fure? or the spin skins? have you ever
    tested those?

  3. Quoted message said:

    When I switched to Slime tubes, the speed
    increase over Mr. Tuffy strips was so noticeable that I've never gone
    back.
    -------------


    I tried slime tubes at some point and never had good luck with them
    'sealing'. they seemed to always continue to leak and spread slime all
    over the tube and inside of rim, making it a real mess to patch. A
    friend of mine swears my Stan's latex goop from notubes.com , but it
    is intended for tubeless MTB (low pressure) , and not really for
    100+psi road tires. I reied it once, but had a hard time installing
    thru a presta valve since it seems to have some particles in it to
    stop leaks, which also plug the valve.

    I am not adverse to some type of additive, but have not used one that
    seems to actually re-seal at 100+psi . but.... if we are to go down
    this road.... how about some comparitive tests of slime vs others in
    110+psi road tires?

    d

  4. botfood said:

    I am attempting to evaluate current options for road tires wrt
    puncture resistance; specifically to goatheads.

    I've read spin skins work for a while, but degrade, crack, and wear
    holes in tubes. true, or not? prevent goathead flats, or not?

    I've heard maxxis re-fuse tires work well... any real way to compare
    them against other 'tuff' tires. have there been any objecive tests on
    resistance to 'thorn-like' flats? any tradeoff s regarding weight and
    rolling resistance?

    obviously we all want a bulletproof tire that doesnt weigh any more,
    and rolls better.... does such an animal exist?

    are there current tests of actual rolling resistance (loaded, at
    speed) along with weight and puncture resistance measured in some
    objective manner?

    Dear B,

    A thicker tread resists the short, sharp spine of a goathead, but alos
    increases rolling resistance--more material deforms as the tire rolls
    under the axle.

    Low-pressure trials-pattern motorcycle tires are so thick that they're
    pretty much invulnerable to goatheads.

    A handful of goatheads on a wooden track would pop thin, high-pressure
    silks like balloons at a porcupine's birthday party.

    Even a light hammer tap will put a goathead through a Mr. Tuffy:

    http://i9.tinypic.com/33a5jit.jpg

    Click on the lower right for full size. The yellow spike is a sharp
    toothpick. The metal spike is a sewing pin. The fuzzy end of the
    goathead thorn was blunted not by going through the tough plastic of
    the Mr. Tuffy strip, but by the wooden workbench underneath the rubber
    mat that the plastic strip was sitting on.

    The thicker the tread, the less chance that a short, needle-pointed
    goathead thorn will pierce the inner tube. That's how thorn-resistant
    inner tubes work--the thorn tip may not go all the way through the
    slightly thicker rubber wall.

    Cheers,

    Carl Fogel

  5. botfood said:
    Quoted message said:

    When I switched to Slime tubes, the speed
    increase over Mr. Tuffy strips was so noticeable that I've never gone
    back.
    -------------


    I tried slime tubes at some point and never had good luck with them
    'sealing'. they seemed to always continue to leak and spread slime all
    over the tube and inside of rim, making it a real mess to patch. A
    friend of mine swears my Stan's latex goop from notubes.com , but it
    is intended for tubeless MTB (low pressure) , and not really for
    100+psi road tires. I reied it once, but had a hard time installing
    thru a presta valve since it seems to have some particles in it to
    stop leaks, which also plug the valve.

    I am not adverse to some type of additive, but have not used one that
    seems to actually re-seal at 100+psi . but.... if we are to go down
    this road.... how about some comparitive tests of slime vs others in
    110+psi road tires?

    d

    Dear D,

    Some riders swear by Stan's stuff, but you have to keep topping the
    tube up and there are reports of severe tire damage.

    Slime tubes have presta valves that unscrew as a unit, leaving an open
    barrel for filling.

    Sealing with Slime is hit-or-miss, depending on where the the thorn
    punctures the tube. The higher up the sidewall, the less likely the
    Slime is to seal the hole. A goathead pinhole is likely to seal well,
    but something the size of a nail is not.

    One advantage of Slime is that even a tiny drop of the lurid green
    stuff leaves no doubt that I need to put in a fresh tube before I go
    for my daily ride.

    I carry four spare tubes and patch flats at home. Today my pre-ride
    inspection revealed no obvious thorn tips, rock chips, or glass, but I
    noticed a small piece of wire sticking out of my rear tire and pulled
    it out with pliers. (It was probably an ordinary paper staple, not a
    Michelin wire.) No slime bubbled out, so I left for my daily ride.

    Cheers,

    Carl Fogel

  6. botfood said:

    I am attempting to evaluate current options for road tires wrt
    puncture resistance; specifically to goatheads.

    I've read spin skins work for a while, but degrade, crack, and wear
    holes in tubes. true, or not? prevent goathead flats, or not?

    When I tried spin skins, they did indeed crack and sort of disintegrate.
    I pulled 'em before I noticed any holes worn in tubes, but it's
    plausible to me that that could happen also, from what I remember of the
    disintegrated spin skin. Can't say if they prevented goathead flats, I
    haven't seen goatheads round here.

    Mark J.

  7. botfood said:

    I am attempting to evaluate current options for road tires wrt
    puncture resistance; specifically to goatheads.

    I saw this guy and stopped to talk and take a picture of his rig:
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/71409747@N00/431148637/

    He said that he takes an old tire, cuts off the bead, and uses that
    like a mr tuffy. He looked at me very seriously and said "I never get
    flats."

  8. Quoted message said:
    botfood said:

    I am attempting to evaluate current options for road tires wrt
    puncture resistance; specifically to goatheads.

    I saw this guy and stopped to talk and take a picture of his rig:http://www.flickr.com/photos/71409747@N00/431148637/

    He said that he takes an old tire, cuts off the bead, and uses that
    like a mr tuffy. He looked at me very seriously and said "I never get
    flats."

    This rig was more interesting, though-
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/71409747@N00/431153385/

  9. Buy Schwalbe Marathon Plus tyres, unrivalled master of puncture
    resistance. My family have rode 4 sets simultaneously. I use to get on
    average 4 puncures a years. Since buying the first set, i've had just
    one puncture in nearly two years and over 10 thousand miles. The
    puncture i did have, only went down when i left it over night. When i
    found the culprit, it was a 12mm thorn that seemed as hard as carbide
    and had worked its way in at the very side of the kevlar belt(i.e gone
    round it). To be honest this was an extremely unlucky and unusual
    puncture, so i consider that the Marathons have avoided all usual
    causes of flat tyres. Not only that, but i think Schwalbe will go out
    of business. The original workhorse bike still has the same set on
    after around 10 thousand miles and they have NO , yes NO perceptible
    wear to the tread. I figure with normal use ( 100 to 200 miles per
    week on **** roads, they could last upto 5 years per set. Experience
    tells me that if Schwalbe wants to keep their sales, they'll have to
    reduce the longevity of the tyre. Awesome tyres!
    Cheers, Nick.

  10. here we developed a perspective running threw minefields of broken
    glass, roofing nails and other debris normally found in a resort area
    that slimes were meant to be used with liners.
    i don't know mr. tuffy but used slimes slime liners (never
    experiencing drag increase thru conti TT):
    actual liquid slime flows out the puncture spreading as a film bewteen
    slime liner (mr tuffy) and inner tire contact surface. The effect is
    viewed taking the slime liner out for cleaning following a total flat
    where the liner sticks to the tire, double stick tape or not.
    if drawn and thought about, you may come to a conclusion that the
    slime liner's (mr. tuffy) shape is somewaht independent of the tube (a
    specialized thorn proof or tp with slime, and the desert conditions
    may spec that extra expense right?). An indepedent shape more closely
    conforming to the inner tire contact surface, not the inflated bound
    to rim surface, is more likely to allow the liquid film a gradual
    damming of air pressures escaping from the tube. draw again using
    arrows over a 3-d surface and cross section, representing the three
    planes. tube, liner, inner tire surface and find the confind liquid
    dams from additive forces spread over the partial cylider.
    without the liner, the slime liquid appears to lose effectiveness.
    time to ride!

  11. i forgot. there is mention in tech archives of a continental cycle
    magazine, maybe something with touring in the title, that actually
    tests tires. carl fogel may remember.

  12. Quoted message said:

    Buy Schwalbe Marathon Plus tyres, unrivalled master of puncture
    resistance.---------------


    I might try these on my urban assault bike that I use for errands...
    but for my 700c road bike, 25 width and 580gr is way more than I want
    to go. Looks like they built the equivelent of a mr.tuffy right into
    the tire!

    I am still hoping for a 23c that doesn't weigh much more than a
    'regular' tire. OR some additive that actually seals up punctures
    'instantly' and holds at 115psi.

    d

  13. yeah downhill, down wind!
    pecan kirchen cabinets in the van are not necessary.

  14. Quoted message said:

    Buy Schwalbe Marathon Plus tyres, unrivalled master of puncture
    resistance. My family have rode 4 sets simultaneously. I use to get on
    average 4 puncures a years. Since buying the first set, i've had just
    one puncture in nearly two years and over 10 thousand miles. The
    puncture i did have, only went down when i left it over night. When i
    found the culprit, it was a 12mm thorn that seemed as hard as carbide
    and had worked its way in at the very side of the kevlar belt(i.e gone
    round it). To be honest this was an extremely unlucky and unusual
    puncture, so i consider that the Marathons have avoided all usual
    causes of flat tyres. Not only that, but i think Schwalbe will go out
    of business. The original workhorse bike still has the same set on
    after around 10 thousand miles and they have NO , yes NO perceptible
    wear to the tread. I figure with normal use ( 100 to 200 miles per
    week on **** roads, they could last upto 5 years per set. Experience
    tells me that if Schwalbe wants to keep their sales, they'll have to
    reduce the longevity of the tyre. Awesome tyres!
    Cheers, Nick.

    So long as we're singing the praises of Schwalbe Marathon, I like a
    different one (schwalbetires.com): the Marathon Racer. It's not so
    puncture resistant as Marathon Plus is touted to be, but way more so
    than "normal", road bike tires, while offering a very "road bike tire"
    feel. They won't resist thorns or big shards of glass, but will
    probably dispense with 99% of the suspect stuff.

    I just recently discovered Schwalbe's new Marathon Racer 700x30,
    although only Peter White seems to carry it in the U.S. I was looking
    for the biggest cushiest tire to fit in my older (Gitane Tour de
    France) frame (with plenty of clearance to the seat tube/front
    derailleur), and it has maybe < 1mm from the campy centaur brake arms,
    so for any road bike with sufficient clearance to the FD, this as
    comfy as it gets. They're wide enough that I have to loosen the cable
    adjustment to get them on and off the bike.

    THey're beefy enough to afford running comfortably on finely gravelled
    potholed dirt with as little as 50-60psi, but usually up to 75, and
    I've put on enough miles (although only in about 3 weeks) to know they
    are WAY more durable than e.g. Conti 4-season or gatorskin 28's that
    get eaten through pretty fast on dirt/log roads, and they're a lot
    taller and wider and softer, but roll just as well on asphalt. They
    have just enough tread to embolden me at 35mph on dirt with a lot of
    last years fine gravel still present, with the front end just sort of
    floating downhill through the stuff, and I boldly ride through fine
    glass on the asphalt shoulder with no concern. And at 370gm, they
    feel much more like road tires than MTB. I hardly notice I'm not
    running std 25c road tires on asphalt.

    In fact I like 'em so much, and the dirt experience on a fast road
    bike (as opposed to the drugery of MTB on the road) that I was finally
    pushed over the line keeping me from a cross bike and picked up a new
    frame, which they're pretty much giving away on ebay these days.
    First tire on the cross bike: 700x35m Marathon Racer.

    Bill Westphal

  15. Bill Westphal said:

    .....
    I just recently discovered Schwalbe's new Marathon Racer 700x30,
    although only Peter White seems to carry it in the U.S.
    ....

    If you're in North America, you can order any tire Schwalbe makes direct
    off the website of their north American distributor:

    http://schwalbetires.com/node/154/ok

    A lot of places carry a few of the Schwalbe tires, but nobody I've found
    yet stocks them all.
    ~

  16. botfood said:

    I am attempting to evaluate current options for road tires wrt
    puncture resistance; specifically to goatheads.

    I've read spin skins work for a while, but degrade, crack, and wear
    holes in tubes. true, or not? prevent goathead flats, or not?

    I've heard maxxis re-fuse tires work well... any real way to compare
    them against other 'tuff' tires. have there been any objecive tests on
    resistance to 'thorn-like' flats? any tradeoff s regarding weight and
    rolling resistance?

    obviously we all want a bulletproof tire that doesnt weigh any more,
    and rolls better.... does such an animal exist?

    are there current tests of actual rolling resistance (loaded, at
    speed) along with weight and puncture resistance measured in some
    objective manner?

    I used a simple evauation method before buying my commuting tyres - I
    simply asked or surveyed every cycle courier I coudl for a week in
    central London (UK).

    The overwhelming majority use Specialised Armadillo tyres, and now I
    do too.

    No punctures for a year - despite 80miles plus a week in glass-ridden
    streets.

    R.

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