What kind of interval training do people suggest so that one can improve one's sprint in a short criterium race? I note that I don't have problems with the pace of the race except at the end where I have difficulties in putting in that final sprint or could only sprint hard for a relatively short distance (well under 150m).
I realise the fact that my 60km training ride on race mornings have taken some energy out of my legs, but let's just count that as a part of the race.
Would focused sprint training, L4 2x20 or long endurance training be of most benefit in this case?
...I realise the fact that my 60km training ride on race mornings have taken some energy out of my legs, but let's just count that as a part of the race....
And do you suppose your competition is also counting an extra 60 km of prerace training as part of the race? Or do you suppose they're a bit fresher as the sprint winds up?
So the same questions as this thread from a few days ago: cyclingforums.comt389605.htmlOpen ↗ Are you in position as the leader's jump or are you losing position in the wind up and pack swell leading up to the sprint and jumping from a poor position? Add a dedicated L7 sprint workout early in your weekly block for the former, do more L5 and possibly some L6 work for the latter. If it's the latter you should also work on your final lap tactics and learn to fight for a good position to sprint from. If you've got that in the bag and you just lack snap or the ability to sustain it to the line then it's back to dedicated sprint work, ideally against similarly skilled team mates to keep it realistic.
And do you suppose your competition is also counting an extra 60 km of prerace training as part of the race? Or do you suppose they're a bit fresher as the sprint winds up?
So the same questions as this thread from a few days ago: cyclingforums.comt389605.htmlOpen ↗ Are you in position as the leader's jump or are you losing position in the wind up and pack swell leading up to the sprint and jumping from a poor position? Add a dedicated L7 sprint workout early in your weekly block for the former, do more L5 and possibly some L6 work for the latter. If it's the latter you should also work on your final lap tactics and learn to fight for a good position to sprint from. If you've got that in the bag and you just lack snap or the ability to sustain it to the line then it's back to dedicated sprint work, ideally against similarly skilled team mates to keep it realistic.
Thanks Dave for the suggestions and I'll take another look at that previous thread.
The extra 60km is a self imposed training for Sat mornings as I don't get a chance to do those longer interval trainings during the week. And given it's recreational racing, I am not too concerned about fully optimizing myself before the race, but just set it up as a harder personal goal and try to improve.
Yes, tactic is one area that I'll definitely have to improve on but by the sound of things, I should focus more on L5 for a start, and add in touches of L6 and L7. I can feel more pain coming...
what I discovered about my own sprint "problem" was my positioning coming into the last 200meters. I used to try and go it alone and would get killed in the last 100m as 20 guys blew past me. What I have been working on recently is picking the right lead out wheel and holding it until the guy blows. if you pick the right wheel, you can ultimately contest the win pick the wrong wheel, and who knows. this takes a bunch of races to figure out the team/individuals to watch. working on this tactic has improved my "sprint" more than anything else
The extra 60km is a self imposed training for Sat mornings as I don't get a chance to do those longer interval trainings during the week. And given it's recreational racing, I am not too concerned about fully optimizing myself before the race, but just set it up as a harder personal goal and try to improve.
Yes, tactic is one area that I'll definitely have to improve on but by the sound of things, I should focus more on L5 for a start, and add in touches of L6 and L7. I can feel more pain coming...
I'm not sure you'll really know what your sprint problem is (or if you really even have one) until you try the crit as fresh as the other guys. Is there any way you could do your Saturday training ride after the crit? The training fatigue from 60km of long intervals is likely going to mask any L5/L6/L7 weaknesses that you might also have at the end of a crit.
what I discovered about my own sprint "problem" was my positioning coming into the last 200meters. I used to try and go it alone and would get killed in the last 100m as 20 guys blew past me. What I have been working on recently is picking the right lead out wheel and holding it until the guy blows. if you pick the right wheel, you can ultimately contest the win pick the wrong wheel, and who knows. this takes a bunch of races to figure out the team/individuals to watch. working on this tactic has improved my "sprint" more than anything else
I think you are right. After two races, I have a better idea of who those guys are now. Will keep this suggestion in mind at the next race. Thanks.
I'm not sure you'll really know what your sprint problem is (or if you really even have one) until you try the crit as fresh as the other guys. Is there any way you could do your Saturday training ride after the crit? The training fatigue from 60km of long intervals is likely going to mask any L5/L6/L7 weaknesses that you might also have at the end of a crit.
Unfortunately not. The races are held in the late afternoon and there's little daylight left after. Further, it's harder to free oneself from the family at that time.
The way I figured is that even including the 60km (not all interval. Maybe around 35-40 of intervals and the rest are rolling hills b/n home and park), with the race (10 x 2km loop), the total distance is 80km. Having enough left to give a good sprint after 80km should be the normal expectation of a roadie, right? Of course, I am at a disadvantage compared with those other guys, but shouldn't this be a reasonable fitness target to aim for?
...the total distance is 80km. Having enough left to give a good sprint after 80km should be the normal expectation of a roadie, right? Of course, I am at a disadvantage compared with those other guys, but shouldn't this be a reasonable fitness target to aim for?
Since you've said these aren't target events then I guess your logic makes sense. The thing is it doesn't help you learn final lap tactics and sprint positioning unless you can build your fitness to the point where you're on par with your competition even with your additional prerace workload. The thing is, mass start racing is all about relative fitness and freshness. So even though your argument that you're training for longer events makes sense, on a given day it's all about how fit and fresh you are against your opponents and I expect most of them don't do 60 km with a few intervals before the race.
There's nothing wrong with your approach from a fitness standpoint. But from a competitive standpoint you're intentionally putting yourself at a disadvantage. If you really don't care about these races and are confident that you will have the power and tactics on the final laps when you need them in your longer races then it's good training time. But if you need to give it your best to figure out how to handle the final laps then you shouldn't be starting with a handicap. It sort of reminds me of folks who want to work an L7 top end sprint workout into the middle of a longer ride. Usually the logic goes along the lines of "getting the most out of my workouts" but it usually just means mediocre sprints since they're too tired from a long L3 ride to really give it their best. Training to sprint slowly isn't very smart.
Is it possible you might be more active at the front or contest the primes or otherwise help dictate the race pace if you were fresh at the start? Could you make this a higher intensity day and shift your extra miles to another day? You might try to do at least one of these races fresh just to see what difference it makes. You can always go back to your prerace workout to continue building your future fitness if you find it doesn't change anything or you find the races aren't sufficiently challenging by themselves. It really is too bad you can't get your extra miles after the event.
Good luck, keep us posted, we wanna hear how you creamed 'em with fresh legs or a bit more weekly high end work 🙂 -Dave
Thanks again for the suggestions Dave. Yes, I should give the race a go on fresh legs. There indeed are much to be learnt in terms of final lap tactics. Given that the bunch typically isn't large, around 10, I haven't had trouble in getting to the front doing some pulls or staying with the pace. The tactics of this race at my grade seemed to be just hide in the bunch and conserve energy and sprint in the final lap. Up to this point, I haven't done too much hiding in the two races I've entered, maybe I should be more sneaky to be competitive.
Funny how I'm now getting into racing given my initial return to cycling was just to try to get fitter and lose some weight... On a flat bar hybrid. I think there's addiction for pain somewhere. 😉
Unfortunately not. The races are held in the late afternoon and there's little daylight left after. Further, it's harder to free oneself from the family at that time.
The way I figured is that even including the 60km (not all interval. Maybe around 35-40 of intervals and the rest are rolling hills b/n home and park), with the race (10 x 2km loop), the total distance is 80km. Having enough left to give a good sprint after 80km should be the normal expectation of a roadie, right? Of course, I am at a disadvantage compared with those other guys, but shouldn't this be a reasonable fitness target to aim for?
Yeah, after 80km you should have 100% of your sprint still there if you were in a pack on the flat. After getting both my butt cheeks kicked in a 2 up sprint from a breakaway, the kid who beat me told me to do more endurance rides, it worked. Just doing longer, easy rides on weekends will sufice. 4 hours is the minimum.
