San Diego Cyclist dies after crash with car on Route 67

On 3/31/07 11:40 PM, in article [email hidden],

Nomen Nescio said:

"This happened at the Poway Road at Highway 67. I've heard of this cyclists
name, and seen him around
on his bike, that intersection is one of the most dangerous ones in the
county.
God be with you riders, be careful."

http://www.10news.com/news/11459268/detail.html?rss=sand&psp=news#

http://www.usacycling.org/results/index.php?permit=2006-611

Cyclist dies after crash with car on Route 67

UNION-TRIBUNE

March 31, 2007

POWAY: A bicyclist was killed in a collision with a car yesterday on state
Route 67 at Poway Road during rush hour.

The cyclist was identified by the county Medical Examiner's Office as attorney
Marc Carpenter, 46, of Lakeside.

Sheriff's officials said the accident occurred about 5:10 p.m. a short
distance south of the “T” intersection.

Carpenter was pedaling north on Route 67 in the right lane or shoulder and
veered into the left lane, trying to reach

the right-turn lane onto westbound Poway Road, sheriff's Sgt. Lloyd Muenzer
said.

Muenzer said Carpenter collided with a Nissan Sentra in the left lane, also
going north. The impact knocked Carpenter

onto the roof and windshield of the car, then onto the pavement north of the
intersection. He was declared dead at the

scene.

The Sentra driver, a 47-year-old Ramona man, was not injured.

Authorities blocked Poway Road at Espola Road and northbound Route 67 at
Scripps Poway Parkway until about 8 p.m. to

investigate.

(http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/northcounty/20070331-9999-1m31pubsafe.html>
)

Quoted message said:

He was a long time member of our bike club. I knew him. He was a good guy
and experienced cyclist.

Quoted message said:

Sheriff's officials said the accident occurred about 5:10 p.m. a short distance south of the "T" intersection.

Carpenter was pedaling north on Route 67 in the right lane or shoulder and veered into the left lane, trying to reach

the right-turn lane onto westbound Poway Road, sheriff's Sgt. Lloyd Muenzer said.

Should read "left-turn lane?"

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Sheriff's officials said the accident occurred about 5:10 p.m. a
short distance south of the "T" intersection.

Carpenter was pedaling north on Route 67 in the right lane or
shoulder and veered into the left lane, trying to reach

the right-turn lane onto westbound Poway Road, sheriff's Sgt. Lloyd
Muenzer said.

Should read "left-turn lane?"

That's what I thought. Also, it seems odd for an experienced cyclist to
get hit from behind (I assume) in this situation. I wonder what
circumstances led to this.

Phil H

Phil Holman' piholmanc@yourservice said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Sheriff's officials said the accident occurred about 5:10 p.m. a
short distance south of the "T" intersection.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Carpenter was pedaling north on Route 67 in the right lane or
shoulder and veered into the left lane, trying to reach

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the right-turn lane onto westbound Poway Road, sheriff's Sgt. Lloyd
Muenzer said.

Quoted message said:

Should read "left-turn lane?"

That's what I thought. Also, it seems odd for an experienced cyclist to
get hit from behind (I assume) in this situation. I wonder what
circumstances led to this.

Dumbass -

Probably didn't look or didn't see it if he did.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

On 4/1/07 3:17 PM, in article
[email hidden], "Kurgan Gringioni"

Quoted message said:

Phil Holman' piholmanc@yourservice said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

> Sheriff's officials said the accident occurred about 5:10 p.m. a
> short distance south of the "T" intersection.

Quoted message said:

> Carpenter was pedaling north on Route 67 in the right lane or
> shoulder and veered into the left lane, trying to reach

Quoted message said:

> the right-turn lane onto westbound Poway Road, sheriff's Sgt. Lloyd
> Muenzer said.

Quoted message said:

Should read "left-turn lane?"

That's what I thought. Also, it seems odd for an experienced cyclist to
get hit from behind (I assume) in this situation. I wonder what
circumstances led to this.

Dumbass -

Probably didn't look or didn't see it if he did.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

There were 2 other accidents in the same area within minutes of this......

http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2007/03/31/news/inland/poway/17_38_163_30_07
..txt

It is a nasty area to ride regardless at that time because the drivers are
racing to get home after work. And your succinct kind words regarding a
local racing cyclist are just as appreciated as all your other helpful
comments.......

http://www.760kfmb.com/news/story.php?id=85505

Phil Holman said:

That's what I thought. Also, it seems odd for an experienced cyclist to
get hit from behind (I assume) in this situation. I wonder what
circumstances led to this.

It is odd/rare, but it does happen, and
tends to be deadly when it does.

Who knows what the circumstances were --
fiddling with the radio dial, looking in the
rearview, looking for his phone... At those
speeds just a second or two of inattention
is all it takes. Or maybe the cyclist really
did 'swerve' left in front of the car as the
report states. However it happened, it's a
[censored] way to go.

Robert

how can I block this idiot....?

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Phil Holman' piholmanc@yourservice said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

> Sheriff's officials said the accident occurred about 5:10 p.m. a
> short distance south of the "T" intersection.

Quoted message said:

> Carpenter was pedaling north on Route 67 in the right lane or
> shoulder and veered into the left lane, trying to reach

Quoted message said:

> the right-turn lane onto westbound Poway Road, sheriff's Sgt. Lloyd
> Muenzer said.

Quoted message said:

Should read "left-turn lane?"

That's what I thought. Also, it seems odd for an experienced cyclist to
get hit from behind (I assume) in this situation. I wonder what
circumstances led to this.

Dumbass -

Probably didn't look or didn't see it if he did.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

* "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> a écrit

Quoted message said:

Dumbass -

Probably didn't look or didn't see it if he did.

The problem is, Kurgan, that cars can appear from "nowhere" pretty
fast, particularly at tricky intersections

There's a pretty tricky one that I have to navigate if I want to head
up into the hills or mountains as opposed to battling dumb tourists
along the coast road; the main east-west autoroute. Compounding the
problem is the fact that it's a reasonably steep uphill approach which
means a cyclist has to be very careful picking the precise moment to
make the crossing.

But luckily by detouring some 4 klicks I can cross it using a bridge as
opposed to dicing with death crossing the feeder lanes

My condolances to the rider, his family and friends.

--
Le vent à Dos
Davey Crockett [No 4Q to reply]
Votez Le Pen
Defeat the traitors Sarkozy, Royale and Marie-George Buffet

ST said:

On 4/1/07 3:17 PM, in article
[email hidden], "Kurgan Gringioni"

Quoted message said:

Phil Holman' piholmanc@yourservice said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> Sheriff's officials said the accident occurred about 5:10 p.m. a
>> short distance south of the "T" intersection.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> Carpenter was pedaling north on Route 67 in the right lane or
>> shoulder and veered into the left lane, trying to reach

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> the right-turn lane onto westbound Poway Road, sheriff's Sgt. Lloyd
>> Muenzer said.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Should read "left-turn lane?"

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

That's what I thought. Also, it seems odd for an experienced cyclist to
get hit from behind (I assume) in this situation. I wonder what
circumstances led to this.

Quoted message said:

Dumbass -

Quoted message said:

Probably didn't look or didn't see it if he did.

Quoted message said:

thanks,

Quoted message said:

K. Gringioni.

There were 2 other accidents in the same area within minutes of this......

http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2007/03/31/news/inland/poway/17_38_16...
.txt

It is a nasty area to ride regardless at that time because the drivers are
racing to get home after work. And your succinct kind words regarding a
local racing cyclist are just as appreciated as all your other helpful
comments.......

Dumbass -

I didn't say anything good or bad about him.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

Quoted message said:

Phil Holman said:

That's what I thought. Also, it seems odd for an experienced cyclist to
get hit from behind (I assume) in this situation. I wonder what
circumstances led to this.

It is odd/rare, but it does happen, and
tends to be deadly when it does.

Who knows what the circumstances were --
fiddling with the radio dial, looking in the
rearview, looking for his phone... At those
speeds just a second or two of inattention
is all it takes. Or maybe the cyclist really
did 'swerve' left in front of the car as the
report states. However it happened, it's a
[censored] way to go.

Dumbass -

It really doesn't have much to do with being an "experienced" cyclist.
I've seen a Cat1 do a U-turn right in front of a minivan. Luckily, he
cleared just before the minivan and him intersected. A fraction of a
second later . . . Dude wasn't thinking.

Everyone brainfarts sometimes. [censored] happens.

* "Jim S" <[email hidden]> a écrit

Quoted message said:

how can I block this idiot....?

Put him in your "KillFile"

But blocking posters is the chickenshit route

Everyone has pertinent comments that should be heard

--
Le vent à Dos
Davey Crockett [No 4Q to reply]
--
Always Fly Yorkshire Airlines
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=3610949054709282698

Kurgan Gringioni said:

Dumbass -

It really doesn't have much to do with being an "experienced" cyclist.
I've seen a Cat1 do a U-turn right in front of a minivan. Luckily, he
cleared just before the minivan and him intersected. A fraction of a
second later . . . Dude wasn't thinking.

Everyone brainfarts sometimes. [censored] happens.

Dumbass,

You are correct that [censored] happens and everyone
brainfarts sometimes. The same [censored] could
happen to any one of us. But

-- Experienced cyclists have dramatically lower accident
rates than beginners.
-- Just because someone is Cat1 doesn't mean
they're hugely experienced. The most experienced riders
in this regard aren't racers at all but messengers who
ride six hours each weekday year-round in heavy traffic, not
on training roads.
-- The brainfart in this case could easily have been the
driver's, who knows.

Robert

Quoted message said:

-- Experienced cyclists have dramatically lower accident
rates than beginners.

Dumbass -

I don't know about that. Surely by accidents per hour of exposure, but
in the case of racing and otherwise, experienced cyclists usually have
many more hours of exposure.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

Nomen Nescio said:

"This happened at the Poway Road at Highway 67. I've heard of this cyclists name, and seen him around
on his bike, that intersection is one of the most dangerous ones in the county.
God be with you riders, be careful."

http://www.10news.com/news/11459268/detail.html?rss=sand&psp=news#

http://www.usacycling.org/results/index.php?permit=2006-611

Cyclist dies after crash with car on Route 67

UNION-TRIBUNE

March 31, 2007

POWAY: A bicyclist was killed in a collision with a car yesterday on state Route 67 at Poway Road during rush hour.

The cyclist was identified by the county Medical Examiner's Office as attorney Marc Carpenter, 46, of Lakeside.

Sheriff's officials said the accident occurred about 5:10 p.m. a short distance south of the "T" intersection.

Carpenter was pedaling north on Route 67 in the right lane or shoulder and veered into the left lane, trying to reach

the right-turn lane onto westbound Poway Road, sheriff's Sgt. Lloyd Muenzer said.

Muenzer said Carpenter collided with a Nissan Sentra in the left lane, also going north. The impact knocked Carpenter

onto the roof and windshield of the car, then onto the pavement north of the intersection. He was declared dead at the

scene.

The Sentra driver, a 47-year-old Ramona man, was not injured.

Authorities blocked Poway Road at Espola Road and northbound Route 67 at Scripps Poway Parkway until about 8 p.m. to

investigate.

(http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/northcounty/20070331-9999-1m31pubs...)

I love how the reporter describes his action as "veered". It's too
bad the guy was dead and couldn't give his version of the story, which
was probably that he moved over, signalling all the while but the
driver was dialing his cell phone and plowed into him without hitting
the brakes.

Just like history is written by the victors, accident reports are
written by the survivors... my condolences go out to his friends and
family.

yeahyeah said:

I love how the reporter describes his action as "veered". It's too
bad the guy was dead and couldn't give his version of the story, which
was probably that he moved over, signalling all the while but the
driver was dialing his cell phone and plowed into him without hitting
the brakes.

Dumbass -

I don't really want to harp on the actions on a dead guy, but in that
situation the car has the right of way. The only way the driver was at
fault is if he were speeding.

The road that the cyclist was turning onto dead ends into the road
that the accident happened on. The other scenario where the driver
could be at fault is if the cyclist were simply on the shoulder and
the car hit him from behind, but that doesn't sound like it was the
case.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

Kurgan Gringioni said:

yeahyeah said:

I love how the reporter describes his action as "veered". It's too
bad the guy was dead and couldn't give his version of the story, which
was probably that he moved over, signalling all the while but the
driver was dialing his cell phone and plowed into him without hitting
the brakes.

Dumbass -

I don't really want to harp on the actions on a dead guy, but in that
situation the car has the right of way. The only way the driver was at
fault is if he were speeding.

That is not quite correct. In California, you can leave the bike lane
when preparing for a left turn (CVC 21208 (a) (2) ). Of course you
can't just blindly move over. But if the guy checked back and then
moved over and was already in the left lane when the car approached he
has the right of way over anybody coming from behind, no matter if
they were speeding or not.

So it really depends how and when the cyclist moved to the left lane
to figure out who was at fault.

Sure sad to hear about these tragic incidents.

bjorn

Kurgan Gringioni said:

Quoted message said:

-- Experienced cyclists have dramatically lower accident
rates than beginners.

Dumbass -

I don't know about that. Surely by accidents per hour of exposure, but

also called accident rate...

bjorn

Quoted message said:

in the case of racing and otherwise, experienced cyclists usually have
many more hours of exposure.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

bjorn said:

Kurgan Gringioni said:

On Apr 2, 6:33 am, "yeahyeah" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I love how the reporter describes his action as "veered". It's too
bad the guy was dead and couldn't give his version of the story, which
was probably that he moved over, signalling all the while but the
driver was dialing his cell phone and plowed into him without hitting
the brakes.

Quoted message said:

Dumbass -

Quoted message said:

I don't really want to harp on the actions on a dead guy, but in that
situation the car has the right of way. The only way the driver was at
fault is if he were speeding.

That is not quite correct. In California, you can leave the bike lane
when preparing for a left turn (CVC 21208 (a) (2) ). Of course you
can't just blindly move over. But if the guy checked back and then
moved over and was already in the left lane when the car approached he
has the right of way over anybody coming from behind, no matter if
they were speeding or not.

So it really depends how and when the cyclist moved to the left lane
to figure out who was at fault.

Sure sad to hear about these tragic incidents.

bjorn

Yes, but it's no good being right and dead in these situations. Don't
put yourself in a situation where someone needs to brake for you to
stay alive. Ride as if you are invisible when you're not on a
shoulder.

Bret

bjorn said:

Kurgan Gringioni said:

On Apr 2, 12:57 am, [email hidden] wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

-- Experienced cyclists have dramatically lower accident
rates than beginners.

Quoted message said:

Dumbass -

Quoted message said:

I don't know about that. Surely by accidents per hour of exposure, but

also called accident rate...

Dumbass -

Semantics. The experienced racers I knew seemed to spend just as much
time sliding across the pavement as beginners did. Sure they're better
bike handlers, but they push their envelope too (which is how they got
good). Look at the Tour de France and its fearsome crash rate before
they hit the mountains. As guys get better, they just try more
difficult things.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.