Extending the range of an electric bike...

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Hi,

In the last few days,
I've bought a 22 inch electric bike 2nd hand for £120.

It's been pretty impressive so far imho.

Problem is,
as people probably already know, is the battery...

At the moment,
it does 12 miles at 17 mph quite comfortably with no input from the
rider.
(36v 12 amp lead acid battery)

Just curious to what you think of this idea of extending the range.

A leisure battery from a scrap yard 12v 110 amp - £30
A fast charger 22amp from Argos - £40
A 12v to 36 dc to dc convertor - £70
A current limiting diode.

ie 12v at 110amps,
probably equals 36 volt at 30amp = 2 times as far = 25 miles,
(taking into account the extra weight and the loss of electric
convertion)

but I reckon it should be good for an approx range of 30 miles of
effortless riding.

Any comments? Ideas?

Look into the LiON batteries. They show the most promise. You might have
to solder it yourself. There are two batteries that you may look at. DD
and F cells. These are from 1.3 to 3.6V and from 5 ah to 10 ah. Think of 2
d cells in size and weight. The F cell looks the most promising at
3.6v/10ah per battery. This means that it would take 10 to make a pack.
That would be 2 rows of 5. And, unlike the NiMH battery packs, you can just
have one charger for the whole 36V pack.

The other thing you need to look at is, weight. A 30 ah Lead Acid is Big
and HEAVY. At some point, in the SLA, the weight of the battery will
overpower the extra range you think you should have and you will actually
shorten your range. But, most assuredly, you will overstress your bearings,
races, spokes and tires. Not to mention, making it very, very top heavy and
a bear to peddle when you need to. Not a good idea.

If you want 30ah I would suggest the LiON battery packs. In fact, I would
suggest 3 of the 10 amp made from the F cells. They would be less than half
the weight of a standard 36v SLA 12aH battery pack and you would get your 30
mile or more range.

"dgk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Hi,

In the last few days,
I've bought a 22 inch electric bike 2nd hand for £120.

It's been pretty impressive so far imho.

Problem is,
as people probably already know, is the battery...

...

I thought that much of the purpose of riding a bike WAS the effort.

LOL, I guess you purests had just as well accept that you will have to share
the biways.

Quoted message said:

Oh, there are some moments while climbing up the 59th street bridge
that I sort of wish I had an electric assist. Many moments in truth,
and some nasty words tossed at the wind.

30 mile range you think? Hmm. My commute is EXACTLY 15 miles each way.
Nah, then I'd have to go to the gym after getting home.

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] writes:

[snip]

Quoted message said:

but I reckon it should be good for an approx range of 30 miles of
effortless riding.
Any comments? Ideas?

I can do way better than that with me as the motor.

So can you. With you as your own motor.

Anyways, you're on your own.

cheers, & good ride,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

Quoted message said:

Hi,

In the last few days,
I've bought a 22 inch electric bike 2nd hand for £120.

It's been pretty impressive so far imho.

Problem is,
as people probably already know, is the battery...

....

I thought that much of the purpose of riding a bike WAS the effort.

Oh, there are some moments while climbing up the 59th street bridge
that I sort of wish I had an electric assist. Many moments in truth,
and some nasty words tossed at the wind.

30 mile range you think? Hmm. My commute is EXACTLY 15 miles each way.
Nah, then I'd have to go to the gym after getting home.

"bob prohaska's usenet account" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Just curious to what you think of this idea of extending the range.

A leisure battery from a scrap yard 12v 110 amp - ?30
A fast charger 22amp from Argos - ?40
A 12v to 36 dc to dc convertor - ?70
A current limiting diode.

ie 12v at 110amps,
probably equals 36 volt at 30amp = 2 times as far = 25 miles,
(taking into account the extra weight and the loss of electric
convertion)

Sorry, but I don't understand; volts times amps is power, not
energy or range. Do you mean amp hours?

Quoted message said:

Any comments? Ideas?

Check the weights of the batteries and compare them to the weight
of a small portable generator. I know, it's cheating, but nobody
will notice if you choose one of the new super-quiet four stroke
units. You can probably get 36 volts directly if you're willing
to modify the generator.

And such a creation would be classed as a Motor Vehicle since it's actually
a Gas/Electric Hybrid. That opens an entirely different can of worms.

Quoted message said:

Just curious to what you think of this idea of extending the range.

A leisure battery from a scrap yard 12v 110 amp - ?30
A fast charger 22amp from Argos - ?40
A 12v to 36 dc to dc convertor - ?70
A current limiting diode.

ie 12v at 110amps,
probably equals 36 volt at 30amp = 2 times as far = 25 miles,
(taking into account the extra weight and the loss of electric
convertion)

Sorry, but I don't understand; volts times amps is power, not
energy or range. Do you mean amp hours?

Quoted message said:

Any comments? Ideas?

Check the weights of the batteries and compare them to the weight
of a small portable generator. I know, it's cheating, but nobody
will notice if you choose one of the new super-quiet four stroke
units. You can probably get 36 volts directly if you're willing
to modify the generator.

bob prohaska

Daryl Hunt said:

And such a creation would be classed as a Motor Vehicle since it's actually
a Gas/Electric Hybrid. That opens an entirely different can of worms.

It might, but that is far from certain. Carrying a generator is
not different, for an electric vehicle, from carrying a can of
gas in an ordinary vehicle.

Narrow minded folks might object, but there's no law against
driving down the road with your fuel pump sipping gas from
a can mounted on the back bumper.

8-)

bob prohaska

Quoted message said:

Daryl Hunt said:

"dgk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 6 Apr 2007 16:47:31 -0700, [email hidden] wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Hi,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

In the last few days,
I've bought a 22 inch electric bike 2nd hand for £120.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It's been pretty impressive so far imho.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Problem is,
as people probably already know, is the battery...

Quoted message said:

...

Quoted message said:

I thought that much of the purpose of riding a bike WAS the effort.

LOL, I guess you purests had just as well accept that you will have to share
the biways.

We won't be sharing very far, not with a mere 12 mile range and not
for very long at just 17mph either. ;-)

Regards,
Bob Hunt

"Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Daryl Hunt said:

"dgk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

I thought that much of the purpose of riding a bike WAS the effort.

LOL, I guess you purests had just as well accept that you will have to

share

Quoted message said:

the biways.

Quoted message said:

We won't be sharing very far, not with a mere 12 mile range and not
for very long at just 17mph either. ;-)

Quoted message said:

Regards,
Bob Hunt

Ah, but my new project is a 50 mile Low Speed Electric Bike that can go at
least 20 mph. (of course, less than 20 is the claimed speed). It will go
something like this.

We find a sickly underweight person that uses an inhaler. He weighs in at a
whole 120 lbs. He has spindley arms with NO tan at all. He's very, very
pale. We get his two inhalers and some sunblock.

Then we put on 3 LiON 48V packs inside his frame wired in parrellel. Then
we have him race your butt.

Guess what, with this configuration, he won't have to peddle a lick and will
be hitting over 23 mph average with almost a 75 mile range. Add a 4th pack
and he should hit almost 100 miles. Now, unless your name is Lance
Armstrong and you are at the peak of your carreer, the sickly person that
can't even pick up his own bike is going to smoke you over a very, very long
distance.

You will laugh your ass off at him at the beginning but curse him under what
is left of your breath later.

BTW, good last name,

Regards
Daryl Hunt

"bob prohaska's usenet account" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Daryl Hunt said:

And such a creation would be classed as a Motor Vehicle since it's

actually

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

a Gas/Electric Hybrid. That opens an entirely different can of worms.

It might, but that is far from certain. Carrying a generator is
not different, for an electric vehicle, from carrying a can of
gas in an ordinary vehicle.

It's all the world of difference. Read up on
http://i70west.com/electricbicycle2/cpsc_16_cfr_part_1512_elec_bike.pdf

Quoted message said:

Narrow minded folks might object, but there's no law against
driving down the road with your fuel pump sipping gas from
a can mounted on the back bumper.

No as long as you meet or exceed the requirements of Motorized Vehicle
under the NHTA regs. The Low Speed Electric Bicycle has to meet or exceed
the laws under the Consumer Protection just like a Bicycle has to.

"oilfreeandhappy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Apr 11, 9:40 pm, bob prohaska's usenet account <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Just curious to what you think of this idea of extending the range.

Quoted message said:

A leisure battery from a scrap yard 12v 110 amp - ?30
A fast charger 22amp from Argos - ?40
A 12v to 36 dc to dc convertor - ?70
A current limiting diode.

Quoted message said:

ie 12v at 110amps,
probably equals 36 volt at 30amp = 2 times as far = 25 miles,
(taking into account the extra weight and the loss of electric
convertion)

Sorry, but I don't understand; volts times amps is power, not
energy or range. Do you mean amp hours?

Quoted message said:

Any comments? Ideas?

Check the weights of the batteries and compare them to the weight
of a small portable generator. I know, it's cheating, but nobody
will notice if you choose one of the new super-quiet four stroke
units. You can probably get 36 volts directly if you're willing
to modify the generator.

bob prohaska

I often wondered why most electrically powered hubs that I've seen
have lead-acid batteries. I just assumed it was the cost. Are the
Lithium-Ion batteries interchangeable with the current motor, etc? I
imagine you'd need a different charger for sure.

80 bucks per 36v pack for the SLA while the LiON 36V pack hits close to 400.

On Apr 11, 9:40 pm, bob prohaska's usenet account <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Just curious to what you think of this idea of extending the range.

Quoted message said:

A leisure battery from a scrap yard 12v 110 amp - ?30
A fast charger 22amp from Argos - ?40
A 12v to 36 dc to dc convertor - ?70
A current limiting diode.

Quoted message said:

ie 12v at 110amps,
probably equals 36 volt at 30amp = 2 times as far = 25 miles,
(taking into account the extra weight and the loss of electric
convertion)

Sorry, but I don't understand; volts times amps is power, not
energy or range. Do you mean amp hours?

Quoted message said:

Any comments? Ideas?

Check the weights of the batteries and compare them to the weight
of a small portable generator. I know, it's cheating, but nobody
will notice if you choose one of the new super-quiet four stroke
units. You can probably get 36 volts directly if you're willing
to modify the generator.

bob prohaska

I often wondered why most electrically powered hubs that I've seen
have lead-acid batteries. I just assumed it was the cost. Are the
Lithium-Ion batteries interchangeable with the current motor, etc? I
imagine you'd need a different charger for sure.
-----
Jim Gagnepain
www.oilfreeandhappy.com

In article <[email hidden]>,

Daryl Hunt said:

Guess what, with this configuration, he won't have to peddle a lick and will
be hitting over 23 mph average with almost a 75 mile range. Add a 4th pack
and he should hit almost 100 miles. Now, unless your name is Lance
Armstrong and you are at the peak of your carreer, the sickly person that
can't even pick up his own bike is going to smoke you over a very, very long
distance.

Maybe, but Bob will be healthier after the finish line.
And better able to deal with flats 'n such en route.

Like the old song says:
"In the year 5555
Your arms hangin' limp at your sides
Your legs got nothin' to do
Some machine's doin' that for you"

cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

Daryl Hunt said:

"oilfreeandhappy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Apr 11, 9:40 pm, bob prohaska's usenet account <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Just curious to what you think of this idea of extending the range.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> A leisure battery from a scrap yard 12v 110 amp - ?30
> A fast charger 22amp from Argos - ?40
> A 12v to 36 dc to dc convertor - ?70
> A current limiting diode.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> ie 12v at 110amps,
> probably equals 36 volt at 30amp = 2 times as far = 25 miles,
> (taking into account the extra weight and the loss of electric
> convertion)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Sorry, but I don't understand; volts times amps is power, not
energy or range. Do you mean amp hours?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Any comments? Ideas?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Check the weights of the batteries and compare them to the weight
of a small portable generator. I know, it's cheating, but nobody
will notice if you choose one of the new super-quiet four stroke
units. You can probably get 36 volts directly if you're willing
to modify the generator.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

bob prohaska

Quoted message said:

I often wondered why most electrically powered hubs that I've seen
have lead-acid batteries. I just assumed it was the cost. Are the
Lithium-Ion batteries interchangeable with the current motor, etc? I
imagine you'd need a different charger for sure.

80 bucks per 36v pack for the SLA while the LiON 36V pack hits close to 400.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Ouch! That explains why I see so many lead-acid systems.
----
Jim Gagnepain
www.oilfreeandhappy.com

"Tom Keats" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Daryl Hunt said:

Guess what, with this configuration, he won't have to peddle a lick and

will

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

be hitting over 23 mph average with almost a 75 mile range. Add a 4th

pack

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and he should hit almost 100 miles. Now, unless your name is Lance
Armstrong and you are at the peak of your carreer, the sickly person

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

can't even pick up his own bike is going to smoke you over a very, very

long

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

distance.

Maybe, but Bob will be healthier after the finish line.
And better able to deal with flats 'n such en route.

And maybe he will be so exhausted at the conclusion he won't complain loudly
about the Low Speed Electric Bike being included.

And, chances are, the skinny dude on the LSEB might have gotten some
exercise along the way as well.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Daryl Hunt said:

"Tom Keats" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Daryl Hunt said:

Guess what, with this configuration, he won't have to peddle a lick and

will

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

be hitting over 23 mph average with almost a 75 mile range. Add a 4th

pack

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and he should hit almost 100 miles. Now, unless your name is Lance
Armstrong and you are at the peak of your carreer, the sickly person

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

can't even pick up his own bike is going to smoke you over a very, very

long

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

distance.

Maybe, but Bob will be healthier after the finish line.
And better able to deal with flats 'n such en route.

And maybe he will be so exhausted at the conclusion he won't complain loudly
about the Low Speed Electric Bike being included.

If Bob agreed with his free will to participate in
such a contest, I doubt he'd be inclined to beef
about it later.

Quoted message said:

And, chances are, the skinny dude on the LSEB might have gotten some
exercise along the way as well.

Pushing a "start" button is not exercise.

And pitting a bicyclist against a two-wheeled ersatz car
is hardly a contest.

cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

"Tom Keats" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Daryl Hunt said:

"Tom Keats" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
"Daryl Hunt" <[email hidden]> writes:
>
> Guess what, with this configuration, he won't have to peddle a lick

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

will

Quoted message said:

> be hitting over 23 mph average with almost a 75 mile range. Add a

4th

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

pack

Quoted message said:

> and he should hit almost 100 miles. Now, unless your name is Lance
> Armstrong and you are at the peak of your carreer, the sickly person

that

Quoted message said:

> can't even pick up his own bike is going to smoke you over a very,

very

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

long

Quoted message said:

> distance.

Maybe, but Bob will be healthier after the finish line.
And better able to deal with flats 'n such en route.

And maybe he will be so exhausted at the conclusion he won't complain

loudly

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

about the Low Speed Electric Bike being included.

If Bob agreed with his free will to participate in
such a contest, I doubt he'd be inclined to beef
about it later.

It's usually not up to one single person on who participates. And Bob is
free to agree or disagree.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And, chances are, the skinny dude on the LSEB might have gotten some
exercise along the way as well.

Pushing a "start" button is not exercise.

And pitting a bicyclist against a two-wheeled ersatz car
is hardly a contest.

Actually, if one stays within the Public Law that makes a "Low Speed
Electric Bicycle" a bicycle then there will be some pedaling involved
somewhere along the way. Now, if Lockheed/Marietta were to make one it
would still require approval from the FAA and NASA to drive.

"Tom Keats" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Daryl Hunt said:

"Tom Keats" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
"Daryl Hunt" <[email hidden]> writes:
>
> "Tom Keats" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> news:[email hidden]...
>> In article <[email hidden]>,
>> "Daryl Hunt" <[email hidden]> writes:
>> >
>> > Guess what, with this configuration, he won't have to peddle a

lick

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and

Quoted message said:

> will
>> > be hitting over 23 mph average with almost a 75 mile range. Add a

4th

Quoted message said:

> pack
>> > and he should hit almost 100 miles. Now, unless your name is

Lance

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> > Armstrong and you are at the peak of your carreer, the sickly

person

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> that
>> > can't even pick up his own bike is going to smoke you over a very,

very

Quoted message said:

> long
>> > distance.
>>
>> Maybe, but Bob will be healthier after the finish line.
>> And better able to deal with flats 'n such en route.
>
> And maybe he will be so exhausted at the conclusion he won't complain

loudly

Quoted message said:

> about the Low Speed Electric Bike being included.

If Bob agreed with his free will to participate in
such a contest, I doubt he'd be inclined to beef
about it later.

It's usually not up to one single person on who participates. And Bob

is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

free to agree or disagree.

I'm just sayin' I think Bob is sportsman enough to
win or lose graciously.

Actually, he laid out the scale to lose.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> And, chances are, the skinny dude on the LSEB might have gotten some
> exercise along the way as well.

Pushing a "start" button is not exercise.

And pitting a bicyclist against a two-wheeled ersatz car
is hardly a contest.

Actually, if one stays within the Public Law that makes a "Low Speed
Electric Bicycle" a bicycle then there will be some pedaling involved
somewhere along the way.

So much for: " Guess what, with this configuration, he won't
have to peddle a lick."

At 120 lbs, he won't have to. But he will anyway just out of habit.
Whereas I will have to pedal quite a bit being almost twice his weight.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Now, if Lockheed/Marietta were to make one it
would still require approval from the FAA and NASA to drive.

Aw, I'm just pullin' yer leg a little. And partly, I'm just
responding to that human instinct, when confronted with
a monster, to kill it :-) But I don't really have anything
against eBikes. If they keep your hypothetical delicate
flower of masculinity from driving some oil-smoke-spewing
old panel van or some such thing, I guess that's a good thing.

I don't know if it is or not. I just know I ride one and also a
conventional bike as well. Depends on how I feel the first thing in the
morning. Riding a conventional bike a couple of miles to work without
coffee doesn't really start the day out good.

Quoted message said:

cheers, & King Kong died for our sins,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

In article <[email hidden]>,

Daryl Hunt said:

"Tom Keats" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Daryl Hunt said:

"Tom Keats" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> In article <[email hidden]>,
> "Daryl Hunt" <[email hidden]> writes:
> >
> > Guess what, with this configuration, he won't have to peddle a lick

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

will
> > be hitting over 23 mph average with almost a 75 mile range. Add a

4th

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

pack
> > and he should hit almost 100 miles. Now, unless your name is Lance
> > Armstrong and you are at the peak of your carreer, the sickly person
that
> > can't even pick up his own bike is going to smoke you over a very,

very

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

long
> > distance.
>
> Maybe, but Bob will be healthier after the finish line.
> And better able to deal with flats 'n such en route.

And maybe he will be so exhausted at the conclusion he won't complain

loudly

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

about the Low Speed Electric Bike being included.

If Bob agreed with his free will to participate in
such a contest, I doubt he'd be inclined to beef
about it later.

It's usually not up to one single person on who participates. And Bob is
free to agree or disagree.

I'm just sayin' I think Bob is sportsman enough to
win or lose graciously.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And, chances are, the skinny dude on the LSEB might have gotten some
exercise along the way as well.

Pushing a "start" button is not exercise.

And pitting a bicyclist against a two-wheeled ersatz car
is hardly a contest.

Actually, if one stays within the Public Law that makes a "Low Speed
Electric Bicycle" a bicycle then there will be some pedaling involved
somewhere along the way.

So much for: " Guess what, with this configuration, he won't
have to peddle a lick."

Quoted message said:

Now, if Lockheed/Marietta were to make one it
would still require approval from the FAA and NASA to drive.

Aw, I'm just pullin' yer leg a little. And partly, I'm just
responding to that human instinct, when confronted with
a monster, to kill it :-) But I don't really have anything
against eBikes. If they keep your hypothetical delicate
flower of masculinity from driving some oil-smoke-spewing
old panel van or some such thing, I guess that's a good thing.

cheers, & King Kong died for our sins,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca