A wish list for cyclocross components

Ryan Cousineau said:

In short, I suspect CX bikes could do well to adopt some ideas from
mountain bikes, but we'll need some road-spec MTB-inspired stuff to do
it.

....

Quoted message said:

So for Christmas I would like a road-compatible top-swing front derailer
from either Campy or Shimano. 105/Veloce spec is plenty; non-series
componentry is fine.

Sounds like a pretty low-volume item to me, but why not? Once out in
the world, someone might well figure out what it's good for besides
making mud pies.

Quoted message said:

So for Boxing Day I want a set of V-specific road levers.

Now that's a good idea (even if drop bars generally are not). Such
levers would play well with the cowhorn bars I see in swelling numbers
on city bikes. They'd work just fine on mustache bars, too. Between
your prospective application, my two prospective applications, and
canti-braked touring bikes, that's a lot of riders who have something
to gain from V-brake drop bar levers.

I think that the main problem with Dia Compe 287V levers was that they
were somewhere between non-aero levers and true V-brake levers in
their amount of cable pull. This characteristic made them unsuitable
for cantis and calipers, but mushy and unsatisfying when used with
linear-pull brakes.

Chalo

On Sun, 06 May 2007 04:45:51 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

So for Boxing Day I want a set of V-specific road levers.

Me too! Now here's the mistery: the other day I was reading Cycling
Plus May 2007 edition, and they have a review of a Condor Heritage
bike, equiped with Mirage Ergopower levers, and Mirage linear pull -
aka V - brakes.

I quote: "One interesting component is the Mirage linear-pull brakes,
a recent inclusion in the Campag range. These are a welcome addition,
originally designed for Campag's flat bar levers, but they work
absolutelly superbly with drops (without the use of Travel Agents or
similar devices.) They offer bags of stopping power and loads of
control[...]".

Apparently, the trick seems to be in the Mirage V-brakes, but I
haven't been able to understand what exactly makes them excel where
others fail - actually, I've not been able to find any info at all
about these, not even on Campagnolo's site :-P

Could these be something like "mini-Vs" that others have made and used
with aero levers??

Regards,
bbb

BigBenBiker said:

actually, I've not been able to find any info at all
about these, not even on Campagnolo's site :-P

Try the Tektro site 😉

--
---
Marten Gerritsen

INFOapestaartjeM-GINEERINGpuntNL
www.m-gineering.nl

In article <[email hidden]>,

Chalo said:

Ryan Cousineau said:

In short, I suspect CX bikes could do well to adopt some ideas from
mountain bikes, but we'll need some road-spec MTB-inspired stuff to do
it.

...

Quoted message said:

So for Christmas I would like a road-compatible top-swing front derailer
from either Campy or Shimano. 105/Veloce spec is plenty; non-series
componentry is fine.

Sounds like a pretty low-volume item to me, but why not? Once out in
the world, someone might well figure out what it's good for besides
making mud pies.

Unless I'm mistaken, a top-run derailer cable is virtually guaranteed to
have a simpler cable line than one run under the BB. The older cable
routing is almost certainly purely a DT-shifter legacy.

Well, not quite: casually leaning on the top tube (or doing an aero tuck
onto it) both argue for putting the cables elsewhere, and underneath is
tricky once you have three cables. Internal is spiffy, but a pain at
installation time.

Hm. Maybe an internal carbon cable routing tube...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So for Boxing Day I want a set of V-specific road levers.

Now that's a good idea (even if drop bars generally are not). Such
levers would play well with the cowhorn bars I see in swelling numbers
on city bikes. They'd work just fine on mustache bars, too. Between
your prospective application, my two prospective applications, and
canti-braked touring bikes, that's a lot of riders who have something
to gain from V-brake drop bar levers.

I've got a Taiwanese factory we can use, let's put on a show!

Quoted message said:

I think that the main problem with Dia Compe 287V levers was that they
were somewhere between non-aero levers and true V-brake levers in
their amount of cable pull. This characteristic made them unsuitable
for cantis and calipers, but mushy and unsatisfying when used with
linear-pull brakes.

Sheldon has a cryptic note on his V-brake page about the difficulty of
making road levers that can work with V-brakes, but I can't see why this
is an issue. Surely the design can be fiddled to have pretty much any
amount of leverage necessary.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

In article <[email hidden]>,

(BigBenBiker) said:

On Sun, 06 May 2007 04:45:51 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

So for Boxing Day I want a set of V-specific road levers.

Me too! Now here's the mistery: the other day I was reading Cycling
Plus May 2007 edition, and they have a review of a Condor Heritage
bike, equiped with Mirage Ergopower levers, and Mirage linear pull -
aka V - brakes.

I quote: "One interesting component is the Mirage linear-pull brakes,
a recent inclusion in the Campag range. These are a welcome addition,
originally designed for Campag's flat bar levers, but they work
absolutelly superbly with drops (without the use of Travel Agents or
similar devices.) They offer bags of stopping power and loads of
control[...]".

Whoa! It's Christmas in May!

Quoted message said:

Apparently, the trick seems to be in the Mirage V-brakes, but I
haven't been able to understand what exactly makes them excel where
others fail - actually, I've not been able to find any info at all
about these, not even on Campagnolo's site :-P

http://www.campagnolo.com/groupsets.php?gid=5&cid=10&pid=218

Quoted message said:

Could these be something like "mini-Vs" that others have made and used
with aero levers??

Interesting question. I happen to have a set of Mini-Vs in my hand. They
measure about 75mm from the centre of the post mount to the cable mount.
Campy claims a measurement of 85 mm for the arms of their Mirage brakes.
I don't know where that measurement is taken from.

The shimano Vs on my MTB measure 105 mm post-to-cable. So that strongly
suggests the trick is that these are mini-Vs.

Mini-Vs are terribly clever, except for one thing: they don't fit the
bikes where they would be needed. The only real justification for
mini-Vs is to run a simpler brake on a road bike that has canti posts,
but the noodle on mini-Vs comes so low relative to the tire that they
only work with fairly small slicks, and no fenders. I tried a set of
mini-Vs with a knobby 32mm tire, and no go. Then I tried them on a 20"
kid's bike running 1.75" semi-slicks, and that failed too!

Given that the length of the arm essentially dictates the type of brake
lever needed (normal or "V"-pull), there is a possibility you could use
mini-Vs with standard road levers if you built a frame and fork with
higher-than-normal posts. This would depend on a mini-V brake with the
ability to slide the brake pads quite far down (close to the posts; I'm
not sure if that has an effect on how V-brakes work, and will leave such
concerns to the geometers and computers*).

Since the Mirage linear pulls have slightly longer arms than the
mini-Vs, they may be just trading some leverage for some clearance, and
in some applications this may be a good deal. Note this strange and
cryptic passage in their marketing materials: "there will be more of a
"biker feel" on the brake lever, thanks to 85mm long arms...."

"Biker feel"?

*As Carl would readily tell you, before computers were called
"computers," the word referred to a job you could hold.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

Ryan Cousineau said:

Unless I'm mistaken, a top-run derailer cable is virtually guaranteed to
have a simpler cable line than one run under the BB. The older cable
routing is almost certainly purely a DT-shifter legacy.

Well, not quite: casually leaning on the top tube (or doing an aero tuck
onto it) both argue for putting the cables elsewhere, and underneath is
tricky once you have three cables. Internal is spiffy, but a pain at
installation time.

Filth-a-rama conditions would have me looking for a FD that accepted a
downward opening cable housing, so I could run full length housing. I
guess that would be a sort of top-pull? I don't generally use any
kind of front derailleur.

Quoted message said:

Sheldon has a cryptic note on his V-brake page about the difficulty of
making road levers that can work with V-brakes, but I can't see why this
is an issue. Surely the design can be fiddled to have pretty much any
amount of leverage necessary.

The more cable pull in a brake lever, the greater the distance must be
between the pivot and the cable anchor. There are only so many places
to put a pivot, and only so many places to put a cable anchor. I can
see how a combination of ergonomically acceptable lever movement,
comfortable hood shape and size, and attractive cable exit from the
levers would make it difficult to pull a V-brake quantity of cable.

A layout that had non-aero routing and a "duck's bill" appendage on
the front-- the bottom half protruding from the lever blade, the top
half built into the lever perch-- would be able to pull any amount of
cable according to the length of the duckbill. But it would probably
look ungainly, and few folks these days seem to be interested in drop
bar levers with non-aero routing.

Chalo

In article <[email hidden]>,

Chalo said:

Ryan Cousineau said:

Unless I'm mistaken, a top-run derailer cable is virtually guaranteed to
have a simpler cable line than one run under the BB. The older cable
routing is almost certainly purely a DT-shifter legacy.

Well, not quite: casually leaning on the top tube (or doing an aero tuck
onto it) both argue for putting the cables elsewhere, and underneath is
tricky once you have three cables. Internal is spiffy, but a pain at
installation time.

Filth-a-rama conditions would have me looking for a FD that accepted a
downward opening cable housing, so I could run full length housing. I
guess that would be a sort of top-pull? I don't generally use any
kind of front derailleur.

I'm not sure the filth is quite so disastrous that full-length housing
would be a contemplated solution, but maybe. I think what usually bungs
up on CX bikes is mud trapped between brakes, rims, and stays (slows the
wheel, scotches the braking), and then the drivetrain stops shifting
properly.

In fact, this may be moot due to the fact that a lot of CX racers run
single ring, with guides on either side:

http://plusonelapgallery.blogspot.com/2006/09/light-cross-bike-22-chris-r
idley.html

(The Plus One Lap galleries are a pretty good survey of typical CX state
of the art).

Typical CX drivetrains now have either 46-44 (or similar) rings, a
single mid-40s ring, or the occasional compact, nice for people like me
who might turn the bike into an occasional road machine.

You'll also see more utilitarian CX bikes (typically Sora-equipped
entry-level models like the Kona Jake) with triples.

I keep having fantasies of a red-band Nexus-8 equipped CX bike, maybe
with a roller brake for ultimate mud-proofing. It might be worth doing
just to see the UCI get apoplectic, but I don't know if it would be a
performance advantage.

The elite-racer solution is that your sponsor gives you two identical
bikes, and in dirty races, the rider will routinely do a flying bike
swap in the pits, and the mechanic immediately starts hosing down the
used bike and fixing any problems, because in a really mucky race, the
rider will do multiple swaps.

CX is quite different than MTB racing both in spirit and practice. The
resulting bicycles, however, are a delight to ride. You could probably
get about the same effect with a rigid but geared 29er, but those are
rarer than CX bikes.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Sheldon has a cryptic note on his V-brake page about the difficulty of
making road levers that can work with V-brakes, but I can't see why this
is an issue. Surely the design can be fiddled to have pretty much any
amount of leverage necessary.

The more cable pull in a brake lever, the greater the distance must be
between the pivot and the cable anchor. There are only so many places
to put a pivot, and only so many places to put a cable anchor. I can
see how a combination of ergonomically acceptable lever movement,
comfortable hood shape and size, and attractive cable exit from the
levers would make it difficult to pull a V-brake quantity of cable.

I'd have to do a few drawings and calculations, but I'm too lazy, so
I'll just insist that the major component makers take care of this
problem for me. 🙂

Now! I want it now!

Quoted message said:

A layout that had non-aero routing and a "duck's bill" appendage on
the front-- the bottom half protruding from the lever blade, the top
half built into the lever perch-- would be able to pull any amount of
cable according to the length of the duckbill. But it would probably
look ungainly, and few folks these days seem to be interested in drop
bar levers with non-aero routing.

Well, except for the notorious utility of baguette carriage, I can't say
as I disagree.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

Ryan Cousineau said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Chalo said:

Ryan Cousineau said:

In short, I suspect CX bikes could do well to adopt some ideas from
mountain bikes, but we'll need some road-spec MTB-inspired stuff to
do it.

...

Quoted message said:

So for Christmas I would like a road-compatible top-swing front
derailer from either Campy or Shimano. 105/Veloce spec is plenty;
non-series componentry is fine.

Sounds like a pretty low-volume item to me, but why not? Once out in
the world, someone might well figure out what it's good for besides
making mud pies.

Unless I'm mistaken, a top-run derailer cable is virtually guaranteed
to have a simpler cable line than one run under the BB. The older
cable routing is almost certainly purely a DT-shifter legacy.

Well, not quite: casually leaning on the top tube (or doing an aero
tuck onto it) both argue for putting the cables elsewhere, and
underneath is tricky once you have three cables. Internal is spiffy,
but a pain at installation time.

A Cyclocross bike has to be carried easily. Shifter cables on the top
tube and the upper part of the saddle tube might interfere with hands
and shoulders even when routed on the top of the tube. Not a good idea
IMHO.

Günther

On Sun, 06 May 2007 18:31:25 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

(BigBenBiker) said:

others fail - actually, I've not been able to find any info at all
about these, not even on Campagnolo's site :-P

http://www.campagnolo.com/groupsets.php?gid=5&cid=10&pid=218

Right... But they don't say anything about using these linear pull
brakes with aero levers. I suppose they could do a better marketing
job on these brakes.

Quoted message said:

only work with fairly small slicks, and no fenders. I tried a set of
mini-Vs with a knobby 32mm tire, and no go. Then I tried them on a 20"

Would they fit a 28mm? A 25mm perhaps?? I know you'd probably not use
these on CX, but still I find the issue interesting.

Assuming you might be willing to do it, if you drill (an old, cheap)
standard V brake at around 85mm (or whatever suits you best) from
mounting post to cable mount, and applly cable stoppers, you just
might have a solution for your problem.

Or you can buy the Campagnolo's linear pull brakes, of course !

Or, you can consider the equivalent Tektros:
http://www.tektro.com/02products/08rx1scd7.php

Enjoy,
bbb

M-gineering said:

BigBenBiker said:

actually, I've not been able to find any info at all
about these, not even on Campagnolo's site :-P

Try the Tektro site 😉

Absolutelly: http://www.tektro.com/02products/08rx1scd7.php ;-)

Thanks,
bbb

On Sun, 06 May 2007 18:31:25 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Apparently, the trick seems to be in the Mirage V-brakes, but I
haven't been able to understand what exactly makes them excel where
others fail - actually, I've not been able to find any info at all
about these, not even on Campagnolo's site :-P

http://www.campagnolo.com/groupsets.php?gid=5&cid=10&pid=218

Quoted message said:

Could these be something like "mini-Vs" that others have made and used
with aero levers??

Definitelly! A lesser "mini" version of the mini-Vs. Not only the RX
1 on Tektro's website, but also the RX 5.

A much marketing than on Campagnolo's and on Tektro's site, I hapened
to find here:
http://www.amazon.com/Tektro-V-Type-Brake-Front-Black/dp/B000C17NPC
(notice the "Product Description"😉.

Cheers,
bbb

Ryan Cousineau said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

(BigBenBiker) said:

On Sun, 06 May 2007 04:45:51 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <[email hidden]>
wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So for Boxing Day I want a set of V-specific road levers.

Quoted message said:

Me too! Now here's the mistery: the other day I was reading Cycling
Plus May 2007 edition, and they have a review of a Condor Heritage
bike, equiped with Mirage Ergopower levers, and Mirage linear pull -
aka V - brakes.

Quoted message said:

I quote: "One interesting component is the Mirage linear-pull brakes,
a recent inclusion in the Campag range. These are a welcome addition,
originally designed for Campag's flat bar levers, but they work
absolutelly superbly with drops (without the use of Travel Agents or
similar devices.) They offer bags of stopping power and loads of
control[...]".

Whoa! It's Christmas in May!

Quoted message said:

Apparently, the trick seems to be in the Mirage V-brakes, but I
haven't been able to understand what exactly makes them excel where
others fail - actually, I've not been able to find any info at all
about these, not even on Campagnolo's site :-P

http://www.campagnolo.com/groupsets.php?gid=5&cid=10&pid=218

Quoted message said:

Could these be something like "mini-Vs" that others have made and used
with aero levers??

Interesting question. I happen to have a set of Mini-Vs in my hand. They
measure about 75mm from the centre of the post mount to the cable mount.
Campy claims a measurement of 85 mm for the arms of their Mirage brakes.
I don't know where that measurement is taken from.

The shimano Vs on my MTB measure 105 mm post-to-cable. So that strongly
suggests the trick is that these are mini-Vs.

Mini-Vs are terribly clever, except for one thing: they don't fit the
bikes where they would be needed. The only real justification for
mini-Vs is to run a simpler brake on a road bike that has canti posts,
but the noodle on mini-Vs comes so low relative to the tire that they
only work with fairly small slicks, and no fenders. I tried a set of
mini-Vs with a knobby 32mm tire, and no go. Then I tried them on a 20"
kid's bike running 1.75" semi-slicks, and that failed too!

Given that the length of the arm essentially dictates the type of brake
lever needed (normal or "V"-pull), there is a possibility you could use
mini-Vs with standard road levers if you built a frame and fork with
higher-than-normal posts. This would depend on a mini-V brake with the
ability to slide the brake pads quite far down (close to the posts; I'm
not sure if that has an effect on how V-brakes work, and will leave such
concerns to the geometers and computers*).

Since the Mirage linear pulls have slightly longer arms than the
mini-Vs, they may be just trading some leverage for some clearance, and
in some applications this may be a good deal. Note this strange and
cryptic passage in their marketing materials: "there will be more of a
"biker feel" on the brake lever, thanks to 85mm long arms...."

"Biker feel"?

*As Carl would readily tell you, before computers were called
"computers," the word referred to a job you could hold.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden]://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Hi there. OOHHHHHHH I thought. Campy V-brakes to go with my Mirage
Ergos. Unfortunately, after reading their blurb, these V-bakes appear
to be suitable for only the Campy flat bar levers. Is this true? I
also appears the V-brakes are available in 3 sizes of arms - 13.5,
18.5 and 24 mm.

Cheers from Peter

(BigBenBiker) said:

On Sun, 06 May 2007 18:31:25 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Apparently, the trick seems to be in the Mirage V-brakes, but I
haven't been able to understand what exactly makes them excel where
others fail - actually, I've not been able to find any info at all
about these, not even on Campagnolo's site :-P

Quoted message said:

http://www.campagnolo.com/groupsets.php?gid=5&cid=10&pid=218

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Could these be something like "mini-Vs" that others have made and used
with aero levers??

Definitelly! A lesser "mini" version of the mini-Vs. Not only the RX
1 on Tektro's website, but also the RX 5.

A much marketing than on Campagnolo's and on Tektro's site, I hapened
to find here:http://www.amazon.com/Tektro-V-Type-Brake-Front-Black/dp/B000C17NPC
(notice the "Product Description"😉.

Cheers,
bbb

Hi there.

Has any one here used these? Are they as efficent stooping as Avid
Shorty cantilevers?

If so, I am going to order some.

Thanks from Cheerful Peter

Ryan Cousineau said:

The ideal cable routing is sometimes used: top tube for all three
cables, with the rear der routing going down the seat stay, and the
front der cable dropping down the seat tube.

Of course, there's no top-swing STI-compatible fders, so one is left
with either playing around with a Campy pre-QS lever and a nice Shimano
MTB fder (may work, but the MTB shifter may not be ideal in terms of
shifting with a reasonably short shifter throw), or using a little
u-turn pulley just below the fder, so that the cable goes down and comes
back up again.

Ryan, you can get a SunTour top-pull derailleur from Loose Screws for
$9. I've used one on my cross bike with Ergo levers and it's ok with
my 50-34 chainrings. It's not the lightest deraileur around but it
saves the weight of the u-turn pully. I did have to insert a longer
limit screw which meant tapping it out because I couldn't match the
threads. I'm very happy with the top mounted cable setup.

Loose Screws:
http://tinyurl.com/2kapgj

Bret

Bret said:

Ryan Cousineau said:

The ideal cable routing is sometimes used: top tube for all three
cables, with the rear der routing going down the seat stay, and the
front der cable dropping down the seat tube.

Quoted message said:

Of course, there's no top-swing STI-compatible fders, so one is left
with either playing around with a Campy pre-QS lever and a nice Shimano
MTB fder (may work, but the MTB shifter may not be ideal in terms of
shifting with a reasonably short shifter throw), or using a little
u-turn pulley just below the fder, so that the cable goes down and comes
back up again.

Ryan, you can get a SunTour top-pull derailleur from Loose Screws for
$9. I've used one on my cross bike with Ergo levers and it's ok with
my 50-34 chainrings. It's not the lightest deraileur around but it
saves the weight of the u-turn pully. I did have to insert a longer
limit screw which meant tapping it out because I couldn't match the
threads. I'm very happy with the top mounted cable setup.

Loose Screws:http://tinyurl.com/2kapgj

Bret

Hi there.

When I needed a longer B limit bolt I found out that the threads on my
Campy style rear dropouts are the same as the threads on derailleur
limit bolts.

Cheers from Peter.

Sir Ridesalot said:

Bret said:

On May 5, 10:45 pm, Ryan Cousineau <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The ideal cable routing is sometimes used: top tube for all three
cables, with the rear der routing going down the seat stay, and the
front der cable dropping down the seat tube.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Of course, there's no top-swing STI-compatible fders, so one is left
with either playing around with a Campy pre-QS lever and a nice Shimano
MTB fder (may work, but the MTB shifter may not be ideal in terms of
shifting with a reasonably short shifter throw), or using a little
u-turn pulley just below the fder, so that the cable goes down and comes
back up again.

Quoted message said:

Ryan, you can get a SunTour top-pull derailleur from Loose Screws for
$9. I've used one on my cross bike with Ergo levers and it's ok with
my 50-34 chainrings. It's not the lightest deraileur around but it
saves the weight of the u-turn pully. I did have to insert a longer
limit screw which meant tapping it out because I couldn't match the
threads. I'm very happy with the top mounted cable setup.

Quoted message said:

Loose Screws:http://tinyurl.com/2kapgj

Quoted message said:

Bret

Hi there.

When I needed a longer B limit bolt I found out that the threads on my
Campy style rear dropouts are the same as the threads on derailleur
limit bolts.

Cheers from Peter.

That sounds right based on my memory of the threads involved. Thanks
for the tip.

Bret

In article <[email hidden]>,

Günther Schwarz said:

Ryan Cousineau said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Chalo said:

Ryan Cousineau wrote:
>
> In short, I suspect CX bikes could do well to adopt some ideas from
> mountain bikes, but we'll need some road-spec MTB-inspired stuff to
> do it.
...
> So for Christmas I would like a road-compatible top-swing front
> derailer from either Campy or Shimano. 105/Veloce spec is plenty;
> non-series componentry is fine.

Sounds like a pretty low-volume item to me, but why not? Once out in
the world, someone might well figure out what it's good for besides
making mud pies.

Unless I'm mistaken, a top-run derailer cable is virtually guaranteed
to have a simpler cable line than one run under the BB. The older
cable routing is almost certainly purely a DT-shifter legacy.

Well, not quite: casually leaning on the top tube (or doing an aero
tuck onto it) both argue for putting the cables elsewhere, and
underneath is tricky once you have three cables. Internal is spiffy,
but a pain at installation time.

A Cyclocross bike has to be carried easily. Shifter cables on the top
tube and the upper part of the saddle tube might interfere with hands
and shoulders even when routed on the top of the tube. Not a good idea
IMHO.

That's possible, but I spend a fair bit of time carrying CX bikes around
(not a pro, just a participant) and I don't think this is a big thing.
Bikes that route the rear shifter cable along the top are quite common,
with the usual arrangement being to bias the cables somewhat to the
right side of the top tube, since the bike is carried from the left.

There should be room to add a third cable, especially given that CX
bikes almost universally use big oversized tubes, and some companies
even use complex forming of the top tube to give a nicer shoulder rest,
which makes the tube even wider than usual.

Of course, if it was trouble, you could just go internal, but along the
top tube instead of the down tube.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

Ryan Cousineau said:

I've been thinking about and building a lot of cyclocross bikes lately,
and I'm starting to muse about some minor design and component ideas
I've been contemplating.

In short, I suspect CX bikes could do well to adopt some ideas from
mountain bikes, but we'll need some road-spec MTB-inspired stuff to do
it.

-Cable Routing: I think there's all kinds of arguments against throwing
a CX bike's cables on the underside of the bike. basically, they get
muddy and they get kicked.

The ideal cable routing is sometimes used: top tube for all three
cables, with the rear der routing going down the seat stay, and the
front der cable dropping down the seat tube.

Of course, there's no top-swing STI-compatible fders, so one is left
with either playing around with a Campy pre-QS lever and a nice Shimano
MTB fder (may work, but the MTB shifter may not be ideal in terms of
shifting with a reasonably short shifter throw), or using a little
u-turn pulley just below the fder, so that the cable goes down and comes
back up again.

This works, but that (meaning "a cyclocross bike"😉 is a really messy
place to put a pulley.

So for Christmas I would like a road-compatible top-swing front derailer
from either Campy or Shimano. 105/Veloce spec is plenty; non-series
componentry is fine.

I can appreciate the aesthetic of the top pull front der approach, but haven't
found that running the FD cable on the DT to ever be a problem. The one large
radius bend under the bottom bracket doesn't hurt anything and we can assume
that cable is an annual replacement item anyway.

Quoted message said:

-Brakes: In theory, cantis are fine in this application. Maybe even
outright superior to V-brakes, since they can be adjusted for leverage
ratio and a wider pad-to-rim gap for mudapalooza.

My experiment this year is running V brakes with a pulley - started with the
front for initial testing. I've only got about fifty miles of trail riding on
the rig so far, but I'm liking this brake a hell of a lot better than the canti.
People tell me that with less rim to pad clearance I can have mud problems. If
that happens (there's been one really muddy race in the history of Florida cx)
I'll just pop the button on the Ergo levers.

THe V-brake and travel agent combo is a little bulky looking, but damn it works
and canti's are not exactly sleek.

I'd like to look into those Campy Mirage Vs. That could be really sweet.

Ron

Quoted message said:

Fine. But given that the UCI doesn't seem ready to back down from the
"no-disc" madness, and given that I never seem to be able to get my
cantis adjusted quite as nicely or easily as I would like, it's time to
give Vs a chance.

Tektro went and discontinued the 287V problem-solving lever, and as
mentioned before, I think pulleys are a second-best solution (even more
so on the dirt-exposed brake, and because part of the advantage of
V-brakes is the reduced force on the cable, which is negated by the
pulley.

So for Boxing Day I want a set of V-specific road levers.

SRAM: hey, new market here! Get it while it's hot.

Comments? Am I just spending too much time doing dirty things?

M-gineering said:

Try the Tektro site 😉

I don't hear very positive comments from CX riders who used V brakes.....

Derk