question about racing and time trials

"Adam Lea" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

After joining the local cycling club I am in two minds as to whether to
get into things like time trials or racing. I am often awe inspired by the
times posted on here and wonder how it is possible to do 10 miles in less
than half an hour, given it takes me 45-50 minutes to get to work (about
11-12 miles). How does one work up to those sorts of speeds? Do people
have special training/dietry routines? From my experience of general
utility cycling it seems that sustaining 20+ mph for any length of time is
hard work. How do people feel when completing time trials? Totally
drained?

The club also do things like hill climbing trials which involve about 120
meters of climbing in 1.6 miles. I found out the quickest times are around
5 minutes which again I find amazing as that must take a phenominal amount
of power. I thought I was a good hill climber until I heard that.

Cheers

Adam

My son does them. He loves them. Hard work, but he enjoys the way he sees
himself getting fitter over time and he's met some great people. There's an
old saying about the end of a time trial "If you can talk, you haven't tried
hard enough" Some people do take it that seriously. Time trialling is good
in that you can do it as seriously or as low-key as you like. Some want to
be superfast, some do it for sheer enjoyment, for some, it's both. With my
son, the day he stops enjoying it it the day he stops doing it. You can time
trial on an ordinary road bike - the low-cost addition of some clip-on
tribars will get you into a more aerodynamic position which will help you go
faster. You can go to the other extreme of TT specific bike. It's up to you.
My son uses his cycle commute to college to do some training, such as
intervals. He'll also do a longer ride at weekends if he's not doing a TT.
He eats healthily. The plus side is, as far as I'm concerned, it's taught
him discipline, he's got an awareness of how his body works, he knows the
importance of looking after his health and eating healthily and how exercise
keeps him fit. He's certainly fitter than many of his contemporaries at
college. At the end of a time trial he can go from being out of breath to
getting off the bike exhausted, depending upon how he's treating that event.
Some clubs have coaches who can provide you with advice. Some people have
their own coach. But the key is enjoyment.

in message <[email hidden]>, Adam Lea

(') said:

After joining the local cycling club I am in two minds as to whether to
get into things like time trials or racing. I am often awe inspired by
the times posted on here and wonder how it is possible to do 10 miles in
less than half an hour, given it takes me 45-50 minutes to get to work
(about 11-12 miles). How does one work up to those sorts of speeds? Do
people have special training/dietry routines? From my experience of
general utility cycling it seems that sustaining 20+ mph for any length
of time is hard work. How do people feel when completing time trials?
Totally drained?

I am a cyclist much like you. I'm over 50, over weight, and not very fit
(and for health reasons never will be very fit). My normal average cycling
speed is between 12 and 16 mph. I nevertheless regularly manage between 30
and 34 minutes for a ten mile time trial, and hope to break the 30 minute
barrier sometime this year (there's a fifteen-year-old in my club who does
25 minutes).

There's a huge difference between what you can do every day in your
comfortable clothes on a bike set up and equipped for every-day utility
cycling, and what you can do in lightweight lycra on a bike which is honed
down for speed. You need to get as low as possible on the bike, which
usually isn't comfortable, and really go for it.

At the end of ten miles of really going for it, I, for one, and totally
shattered, and typically spend three or four minutes just draped over the
bike breathing hard while heart and lungs and legs readjust themselves.

If you decide to try, don't forget to warm up first, and don't forget to
warm down afterwards.

And enjoy!

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

[ This .sig intentionally left blank ]

Adam Lea wrote on 10/05/2007 00:33 +0100:

Quoted message said:

After joining the local cycling club I am in two minds as to whether to get
into things like time trials or racing. I am often awe inspired by the times
posted on here and wonder how it is possible to do 10 miles in less than
half an hour, given it takes me 45-50 minutes to get to work (about 11-12
miles). How does one work up to those sorts of speeds? Do people have
special training/dietry routines? From my experience of general utility
cycling it seems that sustaining 20+ mph for any length of time is hard
work. How do people feel when completing time trials? Totally drained?

The club also do things like hill climbing trials which involve about 120
meters of climbing in 1.6 miles. I found out the quickest times are around 5
minutes which again I find amazing as that must take a phenominal amount of
power. I thought I was a good hill climber until I heard that.

Never done a time trial - not my cup of tea - but my understanding and
from what I have observed in participants is that the competition is
really against yourself, your own times and the targets you've set
yourself. When you get really good it might be for placing against
others but I have seem people compete on all sorts of bikes at all sorts
of speeds and be really pleased with a long time that broke their
previous best. YMMV

--
Tony

"The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there
is no good evidence either way."
- Bertrand Russell

wafflycat said:

"Adam Lea" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

After joining the local cycling club I am in two minds as to whether
to get into things like time trials or racing. I am often awe inspired
by the times posted on here and wonder how it is possible to do 10
miles in less than half an hour, given it takes me 45-50 minutes to
get to work (about 11-12 miles). How does one work up to those sorts
of speeds? Do people have special training/dietry routines? From my
experience of general utility cycling it seems that sustaining 20+ mph
for any length of time is hard work. How do people feel when
completing time trials? Totally drained?

The club also do things like hill climbing trials which involve about
120 meters of climbing in 1.6 miles. I found out the quickest times
are around 5 minutes which again I find amazing as that must take a
phenominal amount of power. I thought I was a good hill climber until
I heard that.

Cheers

Adam

My son does them. He loves them. Hard work, but he enjoys the way he
sees himself getting fitter over time and he's met some great people.
There's an old saying about the end of a time trial "If you can talk,
you haven't tried hard enough" Some people do take it that seriously.
Time trialling is good in that you can do it as seriously or as low-key
as you like. Some want to be superfast, some do it for sheer enjoyment,
for some, it's both. With my son, the day he stops enjoying it it the
day he stops doing it. You can time trial on an ordinary road bike - the
low-cost addition of some clip-on tribars will get you into a more
aerodynamic position which will help you go faster. You can go to the
other extreme of TT specific bike. It's up to you. My son uses his cycle
commute to college to do some training, such as intervals. He'll also do
a longer ride at weekends if he's not doing a TT. He eats healthily. The
plus side is, as far as I'm concerned, it's taught him discipline, he's
got an awareness of how his body works, he knows the importance of
looking after his health and eating healthily and how exercise keeps him
fit. He's certainly fitter than many of his contemporaries at college.
At the end of a time trial he can go from being out of breath to getting
off the bike exhausted, depending upon how he's treating that event.
Some clubs have coaches who can provide you with advice. Some people
have their own coach. But the key is enjoyment.

"But the key is enjoyment."

I'll second that. In terms of the "racing" aspect I will most certainly
never win one, but time trialing is against the clock, over familiar
courses and run with regularity. This lets you monitor personal improvement.

I soon discovered what "time trial intensity" felt like, and was able to
modify my own training to take in both above and below TT intensity
workouts and intervals to help improvement. An average of 20mph to give
a 30min 10 or a 1hour 15min 25 is not that hard given that courses are
never flat... a 30mph descent makes up for the 12mph climb etc..

They are always challenging, and whilst I can't make a silk purse out of
this sow's ear, events are something that I look forward to.

Hill climbs hurt me... but are another measure that I don't look forward
to with the same gusto, but they are part of the calendar and would hate
to miss one.

Time trials are interestign as you are, especially at my end of the
spectrum, racing yourself (and hoping to finish before the marshals
and timekeepers have given up waiting and sloped off to the pub).

I am riding essentially the same kit as nigh on 20 years ago when I
rode my first. Buying aero bits to go faster seems like cheating.
It is an exercise in learning how to get the best out of your body -
cadence, effort, pulserate etc and sustain that over 30ish minutes
(for me, less for many others). At the end I am shattered - feeling my
energy just fading away as I get to the line and really having to
fight to keep the bike up to speed.

It is definitely worth doing at least twice. The first time you will
do it wrong - your pacing will be off and you will either blow up or
find you have reserves left at the end. The second time will be
better. It is then a case of gradual improvement. Training helps of
course.

Definitely worth giving it a go. I haven't yet plucked up the courage
to try a massed start race, though I could well go to the track
tonight for some fixie goodness (for the first time).

...d

Adam Lea said:

After joining the local cycling club I am in two minds as to whether to get
into things like time trials or racing. I am often awe inspired by the times
posted on here and wonder how it is possible to do 10 miles in less than
half an hour, given it takes me 45-50 minutes to get to work (about 11-12
miles).

As others have said, don't compare utility cycling speeds with what
you might expect to do on a race bike, with no luggage and totally
going for it.

Round town I aim to not get sweaty, get held up by cars etc, etc
and rarely average more than 12mph on by commuting bike, but can
go rather faster than that in a race.

Just give it a go. If you don't like it, nothing lost. I'd also
suggest that you have a go at mass start racing when you get
fitter.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune

Forgot to add...

You can find out about clubs in your locality via the CTT web site at

www.ctt.org.uk

The web site gives contact details for each club: club sec name + phone
number.

Many clubs will run occasional 'come and try it' events. Many will welcome a
newcomer to try the sport at a club evening 10. With this, if you do more
than a few, expect to be asked to join the club if you wish to continue to
join in club events.

As with any activity, some clubs are more welcoming than others to
newcomers. Some are only interested in 'serious' riders. Others are much
more low-key. Ring up a few and sound out the club secretaries and see what
they have to offer and if it fits in with what you think you'll enjoy.

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Adam Lea

(') said:

After joining the local cycling club I am in two minds as to whether to
get into things like time trials or racing. I am often awe inspired by
the times posted on here and wonder how it is possible to do 10 miles in
less than half an hour, given it takes me 45-50 minutes to get to work
(about 11-12 miles). How does one work up to those sorts of speeds? Do
people have special training/dietry routines? From my experience of
general utility cycling it seems that sustaining 20+ mph for any length
of time is hard work. How do people feel when completing time trials?
Totally drained?

I am a cyclist much like you. I'm over 50, over weight, and not very fit
(and for health reasons never will be very fit). My normal average cycling
speed is between 12 and 16 mph. I nevertheless regularly manage between 30
and 34 minutes for a ten mile time trial, and hope to break the 30 minute
barrier sometime this year (there's a fifteen-year-old in my club who does
25 minutes).

There's a huge difference between what you can do every day in your
comfortable clothes on a bike set up and equipped for every-day utility
cycling, and what you can do in lightweight lycra on a bike which is honed
down for speed. You need to get as low as possible on the bike, which
usually isn't comfortable, and really go for it.

I'd second that, in spades.

Our commute speed is 12mph. We haven't done a TT in years now, but
were almost always under the hour for a 25 (best 55:xx) and had
something like 21:xx for a 10 (we only did a couple of them). This is
all on a tandem, FWIW.

Riding flat out is mostly a matter of how much pain you are prepared
to put up with. After a couple of years we got a bit bored, to be
honest (we'd already had a few years of rowing, which is rather
similar). We also moved somewhere with some decent off-road riding,
and fewer flat busy main roads (the 55:xx was up and down the A1 on a
Saturday afternoon, which is not something I would want to do too many
times). There's plenty of hurting in competitive MTBing, if you are
keen (we did trailquests mostly) but you get better views and there's
more to think about than just the pain.

The last race we took part in was the first TransRockies. A far cry
from ploughing round some ring road in the rain :-)

http://www.ne.jp/asahi/julesandjames/home/transrockies/index.html

James

On May 10, 11:39 am, "wafflycat" <w*a*ff£y£cat*@£btco*nn£ect.com>

Quoted message said:

Forgot to add...

You can find out about clubs in your locality via the CTT web site at

www.ctt.org.uk

Right on the front page:

News 10/05/2007 Changes to the Highway Code View

What is the CTC playing at. :-(

Any chance of getting them to put something about contacting your MP
to support the EDM?
http://edmi.parliament.uk/EDMi/EDMDetails.aspx?EDMID=33216&SESSION=885

And then there is this:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/guardiantravel/story/0,,2076300,00.html

In my browser it shows as dated Thursday 10th May (i.e. today) - but
it feels like it was written about 6 months ago. It can't have been
because it references the roads4bikes petition.

Depressed of Watford :-(

Tim.

Rola said:

An average of 20mph to give
a 30min 10 or a 1hour 15min 25 is not that hard given that courses are
never flat... a 30mph descent makes up for the 12mph climb etc..

A slightly picky point, but average speeds don't compensate like that,
unfortunately. Let's assume for simplicity that the first half of the
course is uphill, and you can maintain a steady 12mph, then the second
half is downhill, and you can do 30mph.

The first 5 miles of your 10 mile course will take 25 minutes, so to
complete the course at an average of 20mph you'll need to do the
second half of the course in 5 minutes -- an average speed of 60mph!
If the hill slows you down to an average of 10mph then you'd have to
take no time at all over the second half 🙂

Quoted message said:

A slightly picky point, but average speeds don't compensate like that,
unfortunately. Let's assume for simplicity that the first half of the
course is uphill, and you can maintain a steady 12mph, then the second
half is downhill, and you can do 30mph.

The first 5 miles of your 10 mile course will take 25 minutes, so to
complete the course at an average of 20mph you'll need to do the
second half of the course in 5 minutes -- an average speed of 60mph!
If the hill slows you down to an average of 10mph then you'd have to
take no time at all over the second half 🙂

As a general rule you can never quite get back on the descent what you
lose on the climb unless you have a frictionless bike and ride in a
vacuum.

--
Dave...

On May 10, 1:03 pm, "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

On May 10, 11:39 am, "wafflycat" <w*a*ff£y£cat*@£btco*nn£ect.com>
wrote:> Forgot to add...

Quoted message said:

You can find out about clubs in your locality via the CTT web site at

Quoted message said:

www.ctt.org.uk

Right on the front page:

News 10/05/2007 Changes to the Highway Code View

What is the CTC playing at. :-(

Any chance of getting them to put something about contacting your MP
to support the EDM?http://edmi.parliament.uk/EDMi/EDMDetails.aspx?EDMID=33216&SESSION=885

And then there is this:http://www.guardian.co.uk/guardiantravel/story/0,,2076300,00.html

In my browser it shows as dated Thursday 10th May (i.e. today) - but
it feels like it was written about 6 months ago. It can't have been
because it references the roads4bikes petition.

Depressed of Watford :-(

Well I've send a short email to [email hidden]. Who knows.
Maybe it will make a difference.

Tim.

Quoted message said:

Rola said:

An average of 20mph to give
a 30min 10 or a 1hour 15min 25 is not that hard given that courses are
never flat... a 30mph descent makes up for the 12mph climb etc..

A slightly picky point, but average speeds don't compensate like that,
unfortunately. Let's assume for simplicity that the first half of the
course is uphill, and you can maintain a steady 12mph, then the second
half is downhill, and you can do 30mph.

The first 5 miles of your 10 mile course will take 25 minutes, so to
complete the course at an average of 20mph you'll need to do the
second half of the course in 5 minutes -- an average speed of 60mph!
If the hill slows you down to an average of 10mph then you'd have to
take no time at all over the second half 🙂

I'll have to remember to lace some ticker tape to my seat pin :-)

Simon Brooke said:

There's a huge difference between what you can do every day in your
comfortable clothes on a bike set up and equipped for every-day utility
cycling, and what you can do in lightweight lycra on a bike which is honed
down for speed. You need to get as low as possible on the bike, which
usually isn't comfortable, and really go for it.

I think the latter is a bigger factor than the equipment and clothing.

There is a world of difference in attitude between
"trying to get home a big quicker" (timing a commute run)
and actually RACING.

The actual difference in performance between a touring
bike (e.g. Dawes Galaxy) and a full out time trail bike
(assuming both are adjusted to fit properly) is
smaller than you'd expect.

BugBear

dkahn400 said:

Quoted message said:

A slightly picky point, but average speeds don't compensate like that,
unfortunately. Let's assume for simplicity that the first half of the
course is uphill, and you can maintain a steady 12mph, then the second
half is downhill, and you can do 30mph.

The first 5 miles of your 10 mile course will take 25 minutes, so to
complete the course at an average of 20mph you'll need to do the
second half of the course in 5 minutes -- an average speed of 60mph!
If the hill slows you down to an average of 10mph then you'd have to
take no time at all over the second half 🙂

As a general rule you can never quite get back on the descent what you
lose on the climb unless you have a frictionless bike and ride in a
vacuum.

No, he's right. Even if you have a frictionless bike in a vacuum,
you still can't get close to getting back on the descent what you
lose on the climb, because you spend longer on the climb.
Similarly rowing upstream against a current and then back down will
always take you longer than doing the same distance on still water.

In news:[email hidden],
dkahn400 <[email hidden]> tweaked the Babbage-Engine to tell us:

Quoted message said:

As a general rule you can never quite get back on the descent what you
lose on the climb unless you have a frictionless bike and ride in a
vacuum.

Unless one's initials are "AH"

--
Dave Larrington
<http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk>
It is impossible to eat a banana without looking like a tw*t.

Dave Larrington said:

In news:[email hidden],
dkahn400 <[email hidden]> tweaked the Babbage-Engine to tell us:

Quoted message said:

As a general rule you can never quite get back on the descent what you
lose on the climb unless you have a frictionless bike and ride in a
vacuum.

Unless one's initials are "AH"

What are initials?

Tim

Adam Lea said:

After joining the local cycling club I am in two minds as to whether to
get into things like time trials or racing. I am often awe inspired by the
times posted on here and wonder how it is possible to do 10 miles in less
than half an hour, given it takes me 45-50 minutes to get to work (about
11-12 miles). How does one work up to those sorts of speeds? Do people
have special training/dietry routines? From my experience of general
utility cycling it seems that sustaining 20+ mph for any length of time is
hard work. How do people feel when completing time trials? Totally
drained?

The club also do things like hill climbing trials which involve about 120
meters of climbing in 1.6 miles. I found out the quickest times are around
5 minutes which again I find amazing as that must take a phenominal amount
of power. I thought I was a good hill climber until I heard that.

I did my first TT last week.

Strange how I was able to just keep the speed up. I managed 29:02 for a
ten-mile slightly hilly course. Far from quickest but not bad (over 20mph
average) for a first go. That was on my old commuter bike because I went
there straight from work - next time I'll be on my shiny new race bike.

I wouldn't worry about it too much - at the TT I did there were quite a few
slower riders. Probably the slowest took 1.5 times as long as the fastest
but as others have said, the general feeling was racing against your own
times.

--
Jim

(Alan Braggins) said:

No, he's right. Even if you have a frictionless bike in a vacuum,
you still can't get close to getting back on the descent what you
lose on the climb, because you spend longer on the climb.
Similarly rowing upstream against a current and then back down will
always take you longer than doing the same distance on still water.

Hmm... 20 miles at 10mph is 2 hours, row back that's another 2 hours.
Add a 5mph current, that's 20 miles at 15mph taking 1 1/3 hours, plus
20 miles at 5mph taking 4 hours. Damn.

Yes of course, you're (both) right. In that case the slower leg on its
own takes as long as the entire course in still water, and that of
course was Rob's point.

--
Dave...