What sort of a patient has a disease?

"John 'the Man'" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"It is much more important to know what sort of patient has a disease than what sort of disease a
patient has." Sir William Osler, MD (1849-1919), the father of psychosomatic medicine
schwinger.harvard.eduOsler.htmlOpen ↗

When you treat the disease, either a high-tech diagnosis is made with the expensive tools of
modern medical science or a diagnosis has been made based upon a physical examination of the
patient.

But, when you treat the person a case-study is taken that ascertains what the patient has been
doing wrong because all illness is assumed to be the fault of the patient. Further, the natural
doctor will try to regulate the life of their patients, their diet, etc., first before using any
drugs.Once the wrong behavior has been stopped; drugs in the form of vitamins, minerals, and herbs
are given that will assist the patient in recovering naturally from their situation.

In short, treating the disease emphasizes pathology and centers on the biomedical model of health,
whereas treating the patient emphasizes the behavior of the patient and centers on the
biopsychosocial model of health otherwise known as the mind-body connection.

Maizes V, Caspi O. The principles and challenges of integrative medicine.
ewjm.com148Open ↗ West J Med. 1999 Sep;171(3):148-9. No abstract
available. PMID: 10560281

While allopathic physicians will often claim that they believe in prevention and healthy
lifestyles, treat the whole person rather than just the disease, etc.; they don't in practice. It
is just empty rhetoric since study after study has shown that physicians statistically consider
such services a waste of time.

Being treated like a whole person can only be obtained in a doctor-patient relationship. So,
whenever you utilize the services of a natural healer the alternative doctor should be spending a
lot of time trying to figure out what you have been doing wrong by taking a case-history.
Hopefully, from being a member of this List you will have by that time already gotten most of your
diet and other lifestyle issues straighten out. So, the doctor will thus be looking for signs of
chronic poisoning of one sort or another, environmental issues, and other that you might have
overlooked.

The patient who visits an alternative practitioner is as much different as the physician differs
from the healer. Patients who visit healers are expected to cooperate whereas those who visit a
physician are in denial about their responsibility and are basically seeking a quick fix that
would enable them to continue their unhealthy lifestyles.
--
John Gohde, Achieving good Nutrition is an Art, NOT a Science!

Get started on improving your personal health and fitness, today.
tutorials.naturalhealthperspective.comtutorials.naturalhealthperspective.comOpen ↗ Offering easy to understand lessons that will
change your life.

Wouldn't it be really great if this actually worked! There are so many people trying these natural
alternative medicines/regimes that if they were even remotely effective the big bad drug companies
would be out of business by now (despite all the conspiracy theories invented by these
practitioners).

Unfortunately most of these schemes are driven by people who are at least as greedy and uncaring as
the drug companies and just want to line their own pockets at the expense of sick, suffering people
and their desperate families.

Of course there are also well-meaning people who promote this through ignorance of the real world.

Barry Hunt

Once upon a time, our fellow Barry Hunt rambled on about "Re: What sort of a patient has a
disease?." Our champion De-Medicalizing in sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ...

Quoted message said:

Wouldn't it be really great if this actually worked!

Define "this?"

Is "this" what I actually wrote or are referring to your hallucination of what I had
actually written?

I quoted a famous MD, and all you geeks can do is hallucinate. How pathetic!!!

Quoted message said:

There are so many people trying these natural alternative medicines/regimes

I did not write about alternative medicines. I wrote about treating the patient versus treating the
disease. I was extremely specific!!!

What drug are you on, Hunt?

Quoted message said:

that if they were even remotely effective the big bad drug companies would be out of business by
now (despite all the conspiracy theories invented by these practitioners).

AGAIN, what does this have to do with treating the patient versus treating the disease?

Absolutely nothing!!!

Quoted message said:

Unfortunately most of these schemes

What schemes???

AGAIN, I wrote about treating the patient versus treating the disease, not your particular
mental illness.
--
Mental illness happens to be real, live and well on these ngs.

Or, is it just a case of TOTALLY STUPID PEOPLE? redflagsweekly.comregushpeople.htmlOpen ↗

"Barry Hunt" <[email hidden]> wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

"John 'the Man'" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"It is much more important to know what sort of patient has a disease than what sort of disease a
patient has."

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

While allopathic physicians will often claim that they believe in prevention and healthy
lifestyles, treat the whole person rather than just the disease, etc.; they don't in practice. It
is just empty rhetoric since study after study has shown that physicians statistically consider
such services a waste of time.

I don't think it's quite as black and white as all that. Basically, most doctors want to feel good
about what they are doing (of course), while expecting their practice to yield a fair amount of
money (also of course). Some activities that go into building a full doctor/patient relationship are
disparaged in allopathic medicine as "hand holding" (offering support, getting to know the patient
more fully, etc.) They are seen as not as cost-effective as test-based, specialized medicine --
especially when the doctor reaches middle age, has less energy, and would in most cases like to make
more money.

This means that they tend not to be practiced by very many MDs, being relegated to nurses, social
workers, peer support groups, or the like. This fragmentation means poorer treatment of the patient
and in poorer recovery rates.

Because of the real victories in allopathic technique (though not perhaps as many as are claimed),
it is still going strong. It *can* heal people -- or at least control disease. After all, the very
real increase in average life span since the year 1900 is due to advances in allopathic techniques
(especially surgery & anti-biotics), as well as the spread of more hygenic practices in medicine and
society, among other reasons.

Allopathy, for all the arrogance of most of its practicioners, works in a fair percentage of cases.
Can competing schools of medicine show similar statistics, I wonder? (Which is not to suggest that
the competition doesn't work at all.)

Quoted message said:

Wouldn't it be really great if this actually worked! There are so many people trying these natural
alternative medicines/regimes that if they were even remotely effective the big bad drug companies
would be out of business by now (despite all the conspiracy theories invented by these
practitioners).

Unfortunately most of these schemes are driven by people who are at least as greedy and uncaring
as the drug companies and just want to line their own pockets at the expense of sick, suffering
people and their desperate families.

Of course there are also well-meaning people who promote this through ignorance of the real world.

Barry Hunt

Maybe not just through ignorance, but because alternative medicine has actually, in their cases,
worked or appeared to?

You are right to point out that greed and venality are not confined to drug companies and doctors,
but are to be found pretty much on all sides. They are regrettably common.

Fish