Power Training burnout?

wilmar13 said:

OK, so this weekend my power meter died about 30 minutes into a 4hr mountain ride (battery not charged)… at first I was irritated not knowing how much power I was putting out. Etc… but after I got used to it I was climbing well to a natural rhythm. I began to find it really nice not to be demoralized by the fact that I am 30 watts lower than I should be, and also thinking that all my thoughts around how the power meter helps me pace myself is bogus since the supercomputer seems to do a pretty good job of it anyhow… then I started to think about how I could sell my SRM and get a light set of wheels and lighter crank… with some money left over for a cheap cross bike… and then started to question if power training is of limited value to someone like me who trains “with power”, but isn’t super structured as many are (like planning intervals at x% of FTP for Y min Z times).

Has this happened to anyone else? Am I just burned out, or is there merit to the idea that training with power can make it seem too much like work and ruin the fun aspects of riding and racing. If you don’t get paid to ride your bike, going back to the basics is not necessarily a step backwards right? My power meter doesn’t change how I train, rather just documents it. To be sure without it there is no objective measure of improvement, but do I really need any more feedback than how I feel, how I am doing against my peers, etc. I know I would be giving up some great tools by selling the SRM, but knowing that I already have a Polar Power for the TT bike… perhaps the amount of money I have tied up in it, isn’t worth it… anyone else go through this power disillusionment phase? Is it a phase?
😕

I'll take the SRM off your hands for $500 😄

You raise some interesting points - some of which I agree with and some of which I don't. I've been training on a CT indoors since 2002 and outdoors with a PT and SRM since 2004.

Indoors I have no issue - I don't look at the display that much and try to concentrate on whatever's on TV - until that gets too hard! Else I'm in isopower/ergo mode and I know only too well what power I'm trying to hold for the duration (I do my best to avoid looking at the timer!).

Outdoors due to the variability with wind, hills, small changes in road gradient etc, I quickly grew to dislike live current power readout in my face. As 80 odd percent of my training is on the road bike and PT, it was simple to switch the power readout to MAX. That effectively takes it o/o the picture for the ride. On my SRM, I have a little strip of black electrical tape over the power readout as one can't force the SRM to stay in MAX or even AVG mode.

My ONLY relent is that at least in early season, I will keep the SRM power live for the 1st few minutes of a TT to make sure I'm not mistaking Vo2max power for threshold as is my wont :eek: .

So yeah I hate having it in my face and distracting me. Period.

But once I'm home, showered and am re-hydrating - then I just love to download the data and see what's in the "box of chocolates" today. Forrest is my hero 🙂

And I definitely modify my training and set a lot of my indoor training via what the downloads and workouts tell me. Since starting on this power 'fad' in 2002 at age 39, I managed to up my FTP by 20%. And I'd been riding & training steadily and pretty strongly for years. There is absolutely no *way* I would ever go back.

I guess I could write a book or at least a chapter on this topic!

So re a burnout or 'robotic' feeling, turn the live display off or cover it up and just see what you delivered afterwards.

If that doesn't work, I have 1st dibs on your SRM. 😄

Funny, I just went through the same thing recently.

I was returning multiple PT units, both old wired and new wireless, all of which were useless, and ended up riding for dang near a couple months without a powermeter or even a HRM.

It was quite refreshing and I definitely had a great time and experienced my rides from a fresh perspective.

Ultimately I did several crits and circuit races without any metering, and that was a little disappointing, because I would really like to have that info. And after a while, I definitely felt I was sort of wandering off into the wilderness without a guide.

I now have my new SRM mounted up and am very happy to be back among the monitored.

Although I would like to think that I could just chuck the thing every now and then and ride nekid, I haven't done it yet, and don't really know if I ever will.

Whit

Well, I guess if I were to be honest with myself it is just general cycling burnout and I am looking for an equipment change to hide the root cause of my demotivation. I trained really hard over the winter dropping 10lbs… and winning several races this year… only to begin self sabotaging myself recently by eating poorly, not training properly and viewing riding/training as another thing I have to do, rather than something that is an escape from the daily grind… classic symptoms of burnout I suppose.

The ride over the weekend reminded me of days when I cared about how many miles I did, and what my total climbing elevation was as well as average speed (when I rode for fun, rather than competing). Now I have avg watts, total KJ, TSS, 1MP, 5MP, 20MP, etc.… which is important, but I miss the days of riding with a Polar HRM and the simpler goals I guess. And I know it is stupid, but I really like seeing total elevation gain, and I am not going to use two computers!

So I recognize I am burned out, but I have already opened Pandora’s Box. Yeah I am stronger now than I have been (at least I was up until a couple weeks ago), but is that because of training with power? I don’t think so. All it did was to confirm objectively I rode stronger (which was confirmed by race results anyway). I was stronger because I trained better… having a power meter has not changed the way I train (go hard, recover), merely quantified what I was capable of. In the beginning it was really cool to break new personal power records, etc… but at the end of the day since that is all I am really doing with it, does it really matter if I download data from a crit and see that my power was 335w avg with a 1450w sprint when all that matters is if I won or was pack filler??? I am not thinking that power is useless, rather going back to the money involved and saying: is having quantifiable power output (on bike feedback, and documentation) really worth +$2000? (FWIW my SRM is totally problem free, which doesn’t seem to be the case with the cheaper options) I don’t know anymore, and I could apply those funds to other things. It is nice, but now that I have come to the realization that I will not (and don’t want to) be disciplined enough to do structured power intervals, it is nothing but a data collection tool… and I don’t think that is worth it to me. Actually I realized early on that I was merely using it for that, but figured it was indispensable in metering output (avoiding going too hard, etc.)… I guess I am questioning that now too, thinking perceived effort with an experienced athlete is just as good.

Talk me out of selling my SRM on Ebay for a set of bling wheels and carbon cranks to complete a weight weenie build!

wilmar13 said:

My power meter doesn’t change how I train, rather just documents it.

If that is really true, then yes, you might as well sell it, because you're clearly not getting much out of owning it.

acoggan said:

If that is really true, then yes, you might as well sell it, because you're clearly not getting much out of owning it.

Damn it don’t misquote me … :p

If I do a hard interval for 1 min I will go just as hard without the Power meter as with it… the only difference is that with I know I did 740w the 2nd time vs. 755 the 1st and without I know that I felt more tired and didn’t seem to have the same forceful kick, but after training with power for long enough, perceived effort seems to be tuned really well by the supercomputer. I am not saying training by power is bad, only that the concept of training based on power (rather than HR) is not necessarily dependent on having a power meter (at least after owning one for a period of time).

Perhaps I will try going without it for a couple of weeks and see how I feel about trying to get some money back or if it is worth keeping. I guess part of me is wondering how many other folks get bogged down by all the data, and end up training “with” power, rather than “by” power. I consider myself a rather analytical person, but I spend a lot of that energy at work (Engineer) and sometimes I don’t want to over think riding the bike, or else it feels like a chore rather than a hobby. Because of this I use it more to view and document my power output from a training/racing plan that I would have been doing anyhow, which very roughly is: "go hard, recover, repeat"... having the data, and being able to review it/gage progress is valuable, but if I were to put a $ figure on it, I am not sure I would plunk down $3400 again. Problem is, I think for me to get the most out of it, I need to pay for an experienced power-based coach, and I am too cheap to do that... 😄

I had the same dilemma recently. I have two powertaps and thought, "Why am I using these things, when I had a perfectly good computer in my Polar." Like you, I don't get super structured during my workouts, but thanks to Andy's book, my training has been more effective by knowing what I am training when, etc. I also think that Cycling Peaks is a tremendous tool, even if you are only looking at daily TSS and the Performance Manager Chart. I've attached a response to an email from a local coach after I had emailed him with essentially your question.

[font=Arial][font=Arial]Howdy Chris![/font][/font]

[font=Arial][font=Arial] [/font][/font][font=Arial][font=Arial]First off, nobody NEEDS a powermeter. Period. At any point in any ride, I could tell you about what I’m putting out in watts without even looking. Guys like us who have been riding for some time, we pretty much know what an effort is supposed to feel like. One day we may be a tad high or a tad low, but overall, we get there.[/font][/font]

[font=Arial][font=Arial][/font][/font]

[font=Arial][font=Arial]However, where a powermeter is completely usable to me is to measure stuff over time. With mine and most of the folks I work with, I’m less concerned about using it directly in a particular workout or session or what have you, but more interested in tracking the data over time. I use Cycling Peaks software for all of my clients, and with that come some tools that allow me to really see just how hard or easy a ride was, and with that I can shape builds, tapers, peaks, etc. And all the while, if we wanted to go this route, we wouldn’t even need to include a structured workout if it looked like they were getting it done otherwise.[/font][/font]

[font=Arial][font=Arial] [/font][/font][font=Arial][font=Arial]That said, everyone has structure to some degree. Even in the Metroplex one can do a group ride EVERY day.[/font][/font]

[font=Arial][font=Arial] [/font][/font][font=Arial][font=Arial]So, if you are just using it for intervals (for the most part), and are finding that is seems overblown for that, then I wouldn’t stress over having it. But if you want to manage your performance overall, I definitely recommend having one on there. [/font][/font][font=Arial][font=Arial] [/font][/font]

[font=Arial][font=Arial]In terms of managing form, the powermeter is an excellent tool. However, most people and coaches use it more as a glorified heart rate monitor and stop watch that provides just another variable to look at while riding. In that view, I think the things are too stressful to have on the bars.[/font][/font]

[font=Arial][font=Arial]If you become a slave to it, the thing will suck the fun right out of training and maybe even racing for you. I know you know this, but race results aren’t determined by printouts from workouts. If they were, we’d just print out what we did in training and turn that in at registration. The best place to check to see if you’ve been using your powermeter well is on the posted results after the races.[/font][/font]

[font=Arial][font=Arial] [/font][/font]

ADDITIONALLY! I think that you would be making a mistake selling your powermeter for another piece of cycling equipment. If you said you were going to pay off some family debt or something, then I might be there with you, but if you are selling an SRM to replace it with bling, then I think you are cheating yourself. Wheels, carbon bits, etc, don't make you more consistent in your training or give you any long-lasting motivation. The powermeter and the associated software does in my opinion. It shows you where you've been, where you are and what worked, or didn't, in getting you there. I think you just have to reframe how you use it.

It hasn't happened yet. I don't have a lot of time to ride. When I ride, I train. I target specific race fitness system. If I feel too tired to ride, I don't ride. I participate in another hobbies such as video gaming and, recently, photography.

wilmar13 said:

OK, so this weekend my power meter died about 30 minutes into a 4hr mountain ride (battery not charged)… at first I was irritated not knowing how much power I was putting out. Etc… but after I got used to it I was climbing well to a natural rhythm. I began to find it really nice not to be demoralized by the fact that I am 30 watts lower than I should be, and also thinking that all my thoughts around how the power meter helps me pace myself is bogus since the supercomputer seems to do a pretty good job of it anyhow… then I started to think about how I could sell my SRM and get a light set of wheels and lighter crank… with some money left over for a cheap cross bike… and then started to question if power training is of limited value to someone like me who trains “with power”, but isn’t super structured as many are (like planning intervals at x% of FTP for Y min Z times).

Has this happened to anyone else? Am I just burned out, or is there merit to the idea that training with power can make it seem too much like work and ruin the fun aspects of riding and racing. If you don’t get paid to ride your bike, going back to the basics is not necessarily a step backwards right? My power meter doesn’t change how I train, rather just documents it. To be sure without it there is no objective measure of improvement, but do I really need any more feedback than how I feel, how I am doing against my peers, etc. I know I would be giving up some great tools by selling the SRM, but knowing that I already have a Polar Power for the TT bike… perhaps the amount of money I have tied up in it, isn’t worth it… anyone else go through this power disillusionment phase? Is it a phase?
😕

rmur17 said:

But once I'm home, showered and am re-hydrating - then I just love to download the data and see what's in the "box of chocolates" today.

Mmmmm... those chocolates. Today's my anniversary (14th), so I nearly missed my workout. But being just a couple weeks away from my target event, I had to at least go out for a couple hard efforts before the sun went down. Felt like [censored] during the ride because of the big celebratory dinner, but when I got home and opened the 'box'.... presto, new personal best 1min power and I'm making a mockery of the Category labels on Andy's power profile chart. Suddenly the red cape is flying high again! 😄

I don't look at the PM that much while riding (unless it's during a structured interval workout), but it gives me a lot of motivation to see the numbers going up and up over time as a result of my hard work. I honestly don't think I could get the same benefit from training by HR, feel, or just race results.

rmur17 said:

Since starting on this power 'fad' in 2002 at age 39, I managed to up my FTP by 20%.

Imagine what you could do with Powercranks! 😄

(sorry, couldn't resist!)

wilmar13 said:

OK, so this weekend my power meter died about 30 minutes into a 4hr mountain ride (battery not charged)… SNIP

You make some really valid points. Power meters are just a vanity item or toy for 99% of the people who own them. Yes, I have one, but when I seriously consider why I need it, I have to confess it's a toy. It's a toy that allows me to obsessively plan, track and monitor my training, but the fact of the matter is that tracking, monitoring and planning is about 2% of the formula for improvement and 0% of the requirement for enjoyment on the bike. Has it helped me to improve? Yes. Would I have improved anyway? Probably.

There's no secret. If you want to get better on the bike you have to ride lots and train hard. Anyone can do that without even a speedometer. If you want to know how you're doing relative to everyone else, no need to compare power files, just go race or do a time trial. Your strengths and weaknesses will soon be revealed.

I can hear the howls of protest now. Anyone who invested $1000++ in a power meter or who makes a living coaching others who own one should be expected to howl. Go ahead. That's what this forum is for.

P.S. I blame tri-athletes, who have no real understanding of bike racing for the emergence and popularity of these devices. More howling expected and anticipated.

typ993 said:

Imagine what you could do with Powercranks! 😄

(sorry, couldn't resist!)

yeah one day I guess I'll go for that missing 40% 🙄

Ergoman said:

You make some really valid points. Power meters are just a vanity item or toy for 99% of the people who own them. Yes, I have one, but when I seriously consider why I need it, I have to confess it's a toy. It's a toy that allows me to obsessively plan, track and monitor my training, but the fact of the matter is that tracking, monitoring and planning is about 2% of the formula for improvement and 0% of the requirement for enjoyment on the bike. Has it helped me to improve? Yes. Would I have improved anyway? Probably.

There's no secret. If you want to get better on the bike you have to ride lots and train hard. Anyone can do that without even a speedometer. If you want to know how you're doing relative to everyone else, no need to compare power files, just go race or do a time trial. Your strengths and weaknesses will soon be revealed.

I can hear the howls of protest now. Anyone who invested $1000++ in a power meter or who makes a living coaching others who own one should be expected to howl. Go ahead. That's what this forum is for.

P.S. I blame tri-athletes, who have no real understanding of bike racing for the emergence and popularity of these devices. More howling expected and anticipated.

you're welcome to your opinions .. but how do you know 99% of PM users treat them as a vanity item or toy?

frenchyge said:

Today's my anniversary (14th), so I nearly missed my workout. But being just a couple weeks away from my target event, I had to at least go out for a couple hard efforts before the sun went down. Felt like [censored] during the ride because of the big celebratory dinner, but when I got home and opened the 'box'.... presto, new personal best 1min power

So let me guess: your TSB was >> +10?

frenchyge said:

I'm making a mockery of the Category labels on Andy's power profile chart.

Congratulations: you've just stated the new millenium's definition for sandbagging. 😉

wilmar13 said:

Damn it don’t misquote me … :p

I didn't mean to misquote you, I just trimmed your lengthy post down to what I thought was the most important fact: you're apparently not using the data that your powermeter provides to change how you train for the better, so there really isn't much point in owning it (unless you're the type who gets pleasure from, e.g., filling up training logs).

I question what percentage of PM owners use them properly. At the races quite a few riders show up with SRM or PT. It use to intimidate me till I notice after the attacks they are all gone. I have not encountered one strong PM user yet. Did a race yesterday. As soon as the climbs started the PM users were bye bye.

acoggan said:

So let me guess: your TSB was >> +10?

Ha! My target event is 3.5 weeks away, so I'm still trying to pound out that last fitness step with extra doses of L5/L6 TSS. I did have Monday off after the MO State RR this weekend, but TSB was still around -15 last night.

I was planning to taper up to +20 for a 50-mile RR target. Any thoughts on whether I should shoot for being 'fresh-er'?

acoggan said:

Congratulations: you've just stated the new millenium's definition for sandbagging. 😉

I think you're right. The labels aren't wrong, it's just that there are enough of us who train frequently but only race occasionally that the fitness bars have been raised across all categories (to really have an expectation of being able to win, anyway). It's Lance's fault! 😄😉

Under the current USCF points system, it probably takes 15-20 races a year for a rider to be 'forced' into their correct race category, while I do closer to 8-12. In any case, I'm going to move up after this target event even if I don't get forced out.

zaskar said:

As soon as the climbs started the PM users were bye bye.

Well sure, 'cause they're so.... dang.... heavy! 😄

frenchyge said:

Well sure, 'cause they're so.... dang.... heavy! 😄

Are you saying that is the reason I dropped them? lol. Well I won my first yesterday. The course had 11 miles of climbing, fit me well.

TSB was -0.7 ATL 80 CTL 92

French, when you won last year what was your TSB?