House - do you think Armstrong doped?

I stand united with House.

He's the most tested athlete in world and never failed a drug test.

What more do you want?

Seven Tour de France victories against doped riders.

He is, without a doubt, the greatest athlete of our time.

And he's American.

And he's a friend of mine.

My vote is that he is dirty.

Current tally:

Clean: 1
Dirty: 1

Frigo's Luggage said:

My vote is that he is dirty.

Current tally:

Clean: 1
Dirty: 1

Doped to the gills without a doubt, but qualified by the fact that he was no dirtier than the guys he was racing against.

Dirty. No doubt. And he may have never failed a drug test, but so did basso, scarponi, ullrich and untill the vuelta hamilton. He may be the most doped rider ever (behind Bjarne Riis) he used epo and more.

Funny that this thread is still open yet the thread started by House is closed. Bias, you decide.

"The funniest part is that I cut and pasted it exactly as YOU wrote it.

Keep digging that hole." LMAO, Classic. 😄 😄 😄

Doped to the eyeballs. The biggest gain from PEDs than any other rider with the possible exception of Riis.

Bro Deal said:

Doped to the eyeballs. The biggest gain from PEDs than any other rider with the possible exception of Riis.

Thank god Martin Jackson is back to talk some sense to this forum.

Speaking of sense, anyone remember that thread where someone asked if you could blood dope by drinking your own blood? That was awesome. I am totally gonna try that this weekend. I'll let you guys know how it goes. Those Cat 1 guys are gonna be so [censored] when I lap them.

thebluetrain said:

Funny that this thread is still open yet the thread started by House is closed. Bias, you decide.

"The funniest part is that I cut and pasted it exactly as YOU wrote it.

Keep digging that hole." LMAO, Classic. 😄 😄 😄

No kidding! Bias sucks! No what is really biased? Science. Like all these tests showed that Heras and Landis and Ullrich and Tyler doped but they totally didn't. I mean, they said they didn't but, NO! Science keeps saying that they did!

By this point is should be clear that science is totally getting paid off by L'Equipe reporters. Science is such a [censored].

tcklyde said:

No kidding! Bias sucks! No what is really biased? Science. Like all these tests showed that Heras and Landis and Ullrich and Tyler doped but they totally didn't. I mean, they said they didn't but, NO! Science keeps saying that they did!

By this point is should be clear that science is totally getting paid off by L'Equipe reporters. Science is such a [censored].

But Harry, if we all just believe and start clicking our cleats together three times, the doping problem WILL go away.

I personally don't think armstrong did dope, he would have been tested far more than the likes of the guys who have been mentioned due to how many stages he won and tours he won. The bottom line his he never failed a test and seeing that he his now retired he isn't going to fail one now.

You can't prove a negative at the end of the day so i wonder why its still being discussed. Most of his rivals have all admited to doping or have failed doping tests, those are facts that can't be disputed, so EVEN if he DID he was still on a level playing field.

The thing that pi**es me off really is the fact that it seems the Telekom team of the 90's was at least as bad as the Festina team that got busted in 98. Indurain was probably denied his place in history with 6 straight tour wins because of this. I still have this tour on video....Mr 60%, he was never has good before or after. 😠 . How many riders after 2 weeks in baking heat could ride Hautacam on the big ring and then only just lose the next stage which was even hotter and 250+km long. Its probable now that no other team took EPO on that tour because Telekom had it all

Again with the 'he never failed a dope test'. One thing we have learned from operation Puerto is that that statement is know meaningless. Ullrich was probably tested as many times as Lance and he always came back negative. Same thing with a multitude of other riders.

And to actually believe that a supposedly clean rider was able to beat a fully doped peleton year after year, well you definetly have to be naive. Lance doped like the rest of them.

ad9898 said:

I personally don't think armstrong did dope, he would have been tested far more than the likes of the guys who have been mentioned due to how many stages he won and tours he won. The bottom line his he never failed a test and seeing that he his now retired he isn't going to fail one now.

You can't prove a negative at the end of the day so i wonder why its still being discussed. Most of his rivals have all admited to doping or have failed doping tests, those are facts that can't be disputed, so EVEN if he DID he was still on a level playing field.

The thing that pi**es me off really is the fact that it seems the Telekom team of the 90's was at least as bad as the Festina team that got busted in 98. Indurain was probably denied his place in history with 6 straight tour wins because of this. I still have this tour on video....Mr 60%, he was never has good before or after. 😠 . How many riders after 2 weeks in baking heat could ride Hautacam on the big ring and then only just lose the next stage which was even hotter and 250+km long. Its probable now that no other team took EPO on that tour because Telekom had it all

T-Mobile manager Bob Stapleton today stated, that everyone dopes, that it is definately impossible to win the Tour de France without Doping and that current doping control tests are absolutely useless and that is very easy not to get caught.

Really, does anyone think Armstrong dominated doped riders like Hamilton, Ullrich, Landis etc without being doped himself? No way, IMO, he's the King of Doping.

So much time and money wasted on this topic. I say drop all charges agaist all riders and start a new policy with a lifetime ban on any positive test. That is what will even the playing field. Who would chance it?
I think it is obvious LA used performance enhancing drugs. There was so much money invested in him and his incredible story. That kind of money beats tests.

muxy said:

So much time and money wasted on this topic. I say drop all charges agaist all riders and start a new policy with a lifetime ban on any positive test. That is what will even the playing field. Who would chance it?
I think it is obvious LA used performance enhancing drugs. There was so much money invested in him and his incredible story. That kind of money beats tests.

Yes but it would be nice to catch the big cheese himself.

Anyone think that Arstrong will get sucked into this? It would need top level evidence .... someone like a Hincapie

wicklow200 said:

Yes but it would be nice to catch the big cheese himself.

Anyone think that Arstrong will get sucked into this? It would need top level evidence .... someone like a Hincapie

Naw, I don't think so. I think if this keeps breaking the US media will pay attention to it. And if enough riders from his era admit or are found to have doped, the press here will start asking the obvious questions, like, "How do you explain beating all those doped riders? is it possible you gave yourself cancer through doping?"

Armstrong won't have to answer those questions. The media will take the ball and run with it. They'll interview experts about the side effects of massive dosages of testosterone, steroids and HGH. Stapleton has already said it's not possible to win a GT without dope. They'll quote him up one side and down the other. They'll take a look at the Landis hearings, pay close attention to Lemond. Make a few more connections back to Armstrong. Start to connect the dots with dot #1 being the performance of the US cycling team at the 1984 Olympics.

This is all very topical. The elements are in place for a media maelstrom.

Look, if he "just" won the Tour, American's interest in cycling would dictate a simplistic response. "Well, schucks, if all them [censored] were doping then that makes it a level playing field so our boy won fair and square."

But he didn't "just" win the Tour. He beat cancer and he took that message to the bank. The only thing we Americans love more than building up a hero is tearing one back down to the ground again.

Say what you will about the media, but if this goes badly for him, they will have Armstrong twisting in the wind.

helmutRoole2 said:

Naw, I don't think so. I think if this keeps breaking the US media will pay attention to it. And if enough riders from his era admit or are found to have doped, the press here will start asking the obvious questions, like, "How do you explain beating all those doped riders? is it possible you gave yourself cancer through doping?"

Armstrong won't have to answer those questions. The media will take the ball and run with it. They'll interview experts about the side effects of massive dosages of testosterone, steroids and HGH. Stapleton has already said it's not possible to win a GT without dope. They'll quote him up one side and down the other. They'll take a look at the Landis hearings, pay close attention to Lemond. Make a few more connections back to Armstrong. Start to connect the dots with dot #1 being the performance of the US cycling team at the 1984 Olympics.

This is all very topical. The elements are in place for a media maelstrom.

Look, if he "just" won the Tour, American's interest in cycling would dictate a simplistic response. "Well, schucks, if all them [censored] were doping then that makes it a level playing field so our boy won fair and square."

But he didn't "just" win the Tour. He beat cancer and he took that message to the bank. The only thing we Americans love more than building up a hero is tearing one back down to the ground again.

Regardless if he dopped or not, I believe he did, he beat cancer, cheated death, whatever! The should be dead, but came back and won the TDF 7 times. On PED's or not it's still remarkable.

helmutRoole2 said:

Naw, I don't think so. I think if this keeps breaking the US media will pay attention to it. And if enough riders from his era admit or are found to have doped, the press here will start asking the obvious questions, like, "How do you explain beating all those doped riders? is it possible you gave yourself cancer through doping?"

Armstrong won't have to answer those questions. The media will take the ball and run with it. They'll interview experts about the side effects of massive dosages of testosterone, steroids and HGH. Stapleton has already said it's not possible to win a GT without dope. The quote him up and down. They'll take a look at the Landis hearings, pay close attention to Lemond.

This is all very topical. The elements are in place for a media maelstrom.

Look, if he "just" won the Tour, American's interest in cycling would dictate a simplistic response. "Well, schucks, if all them [censored] were doping then that makes it a level playing field so our boy won fair and square."

But he didn't "just" win the Tour. He beat cancer and he took that message to the bank. The only thing we Americans love more than building up a hero is tearing one back down to the ground again.

If you are right and it goes to the extreme, then it will be massive for cycling. I think cycling is in a right state now, and we haven't seen the worst.

azdroptop said:

Regardless if he dopped or not, I believe he did, he beat cancer, cheated death, whatever! The should be dead, but came back and won the TDF 7 times. On PED's or not it's still remarkable.

Indisputable.

But most Americans, whom Armstrong has banked on, care only about the cancer, the fact that he beat it and then went on to win some kind of [censored] bicycle race a bunch of times.

When it comes to the cycling part, Americans won't sweat the details. He'll be classified as a steroid cheat who gave himself cancer.

azdroptop said:

Regardless if he dopped or not, I believe he did, he beat cancer, cheated death, whatever! The should be dead, but came back and won the TDF 7 times. On PED's or not it's still remarkable.

Agreed, I suffered the same cancer as Lance, and the chemo after it, the chemo f**ks you let me tell you, for sometime after, climbing a flight of stairs knackered you like a couple of hours on the bike.