Being told to slow down by a ped

IMO 17-20mph is too fast to be cycling on a shared use path. Even though
that speed isn't hugely fast in terms of cycling, it is when sharing a
farcility with peds. Another reason I *loathe* shared use farcilities.

Simon L said the following on 07/06/2007 12:14:

Quoted message said:

... I'm probably doing 17 - 20 mph...

On passing them I hear something muttered that only after I've passed
do I make out. They were standing at the side of the path for me to
pass holding the dog tightly and I was surprised to be asked to Slow
down (please).

Not sure where I'm going with this thread, maybe she has a point. I'm
quite careful around dogs as I don't want to run the [censored] over and
hurt myself. I felt I was riding within my safety limits, she didn't.
End of story?

That sort of speed on that path is inappropriate and dangerous - I do
know the path you mean. You should have been going much slower,
especially where there are people and dogs around.

The key word is "shared" - you are allowed to share this path with
pedestrians, and both parties need to behave responsibly. I'm afraid
that in this case one party behaved responsibly, and it wasn't you!

Your last paragraph ensured that any traces of sympathy for you quickly
evaporated.

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

Remember that your (say) 15 mph is maybe 5 x pedestrian speed.
It's (ok stretching the limits!) the same as a car passing you at 100
mph on the road. Think what you'd mutter at them LOL
Robert

Quoted message said:

Your last paragraph ensured that any traces of sympathy for you quickly
evaporated.

if you know how much [censored] there is on the old railway path to
Whitchurch you might understand my frustration.

BigRab said:

Remember that your (say) 15 mph is maybe 5 x pedestrian speed.
It's (ok stretching the limits!) the same as a car passing you at 100
mph on the road. Think what you'd mutter at them LOL
Robert

Do you pass peds at (say) 5mph? Based on my description of events, the
concencus is that I was going too fast. Does the highway code have any
suggestions?

On 7 Jun, 12:14, Simon L <[email hidden]> wrote:

< heavily trimmed >

Quoted message said:

...
It's downhill towards BTM so I'm probably doing 17 - 20 mph on a
straight bit with good visiblity, quite a few dog walkers around ...
On passing them I ... I was surprised to be asked to Slow
down (please).

Have a look at:

http://www.dft.gov.uk/consultations/archive/2004/ltnwc/annexdcodeofconductnoticefor1688

Which suggests that over 30 km/h you should be on a road.

As others have said- it's a shared facility, so you need to ride
accordingly. Incidentally, you are probably putting yourself as higher
risk of injury riding on the path than you would on a road-
statistically that's the case, though your local conditions may mean
you're situation is different.

I have this problem on a local path that I use for my commute- at
7am, when I'm going uphill, there's prectically no-one there and I'm
going relatively slowly. On the way home it's 6pm and downhill- 17+mph
is reasonably easy to maintain and the path is busier, so I either
have to keep my speed down or use the road...

Cheers,
W.

Simon L said:

BigRab said:

Remember that your (say) 15 mph is maybe 5 x pedestrian speed.
It's (ok stretching the limits!) the same as a car passing you at 100
mph on the road. Think what you'd mutter at them LOL
Robert

Do you pass peds at (say) 5mph? Based on my description of events, the
concencus is that I was going too fast. Does the highway code have any
suggestions?

It strikes me (he says, whittering on) that there are alot of
parallels here with car / bike shared use, ie a lack of understanding
between both parties.

NB standing by the side of the path tightly clutching your dog is an
invitation for a cyclist to procede with less fear of collision, like
a cyclist in the gutter for a car.

If a dog walker hasn't seen me and / or has a yappy dog on lead
stretched all across the path then caution is to be exercised.

Simon L said:

BigRab said:

Remember that your (say) 15 mph is maybe 5 x pedestrian speed.
It's (ok stretching the limits!) the same as a car passing you at 100
mph on the road. Think what you'd mutter at them LOL
Robert

Do you pass peds at (say) 5mph? Based on my description of events, the
concencus is that I was going too fast. Does the highway code have any
suggestions?

I don't know about the highway code, but the planners should have had
a design speed in mind when commisioning the route as a shared path. I
suppose if they posted this as a recommended speed on signs at the
side of the path, it would be informative but it would be too low for
the purposes of getting anywhere over a significant distance. I don't
use shared facilities because of the potential conflict at speeds I'm
capable of.

David Lloyd (at work)

Quoted message said:

... though your local conditions may mean
you're situation is different.

Oops, sorry: I reworded that and didn't update the punctuation.
Apologies to any purists offended...

Cheers,
W.

On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 06:28:18 -0700

Simon L said:

BigRab said:

Remember that your (say) 15 mph is maybe 5 x pedestrian speed.
It's (ok stretching the limits!) the same as a car passing you at
100 mph on the road. Think what you'd mutter at them LOL
Robert

Do you pass peds at (say) 5mph? Based on my description of events, the
concencus is that I was going too fast. Does the highway code have any
suggestions?

Depends.

If you can give them ample, safe, and above all non-scary clearance
(like, say, 3 metres), then there's absolutely no problem with 20mph.
If you're down to one metre, you go much slower: maybe 2*walking speed.
Or even get off and walk past if necessary (for example if the ped is
slow/unsteady through age or physical disability), though that's
exceptional.

If the peds took trouble to move out of your way, then either it's
too narrow for a shared-use path, or they were paranoid. In either
case, common courtesy says don't scare them.

--
not me guv

In article <[email hidden]>, Simon
L
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

If anyone knows the cycleway / footpath that goes along the Avon north
of Bristol Temple Meads to Barton HIll, you'll know where I mean.

It's a shared use path with no dividing lines. The width varies
considerably from barely room for two bikes to pass comfortably,
although there is often plenty more than that.

It's downhill towards BTM so I'm probably doing 17 - 20 mph on a
straight bit with good visiblity

That's probably too fast even on a segregated path unless there's no-one
else around or it's wide and they have obviously seen you.

Simon L wrote on 07/06/2007 14:28 +0100:

Quoted message said:

BigRab said:

Remember that your (say) 15 mph is maybe 5 x pedestrian speed.
It's (ok stretching the limits!) the same as a car passing you at 100
mph on the road. Think what you'd mutter at them LOL
Robert

Do you pass peds at (say) 5mph? Based on my description of events, the
concencus is that I was going too fast. Does the highway code have any
suggestions?

You won't find a speed in the Highway Code but the best advice is to
treat them as you would like to be treated if the roles were reversed.
How fast should a car pass you - well how fast in the circumstances
would you like a car to pass you. How fast should you pass a pedestrian
? No faster than you would like a bike to pass you in that place if you
were the pedestrian. Simple and works virtually every time.

--
Tony

"The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there
is no good evidence either way."
- Bertrand Russell

Simon L said the following on 07/06/2007 14:39:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Do you pass peds at (say) 5mph?

If necessary, yes, or even stop. I might stop with my front wheel under
their nose, mind :-)

Quoted message said:

It strikes me (he says, whittering on) that there are alot of
parallels here with car / bike shared use, ie a lack of understanding
between both parties.

NB standing by the side of the path tightly clutching your dog is an
invitation for a cyclist to procede with less fear of collision, like
a cyclist in the gutter for a car.

You do have a valid point here, but I feel that as cyclists we have a
bad enough reputation, so we ought to do what we can to address that.
In your OP, you obviously gave the dog-walker some concern, and that
dog-walker might be about to get into a car and treat a cyclist the same
way they felt you treated them. I don't mean that we should go around
grovelling to all and sundry, but just be human beings all trying to get
along. This seems to work on bridleways where even horsey types and
MTBers generally get along. There are always exceptions - the RedSocks!)

Quoted message said:

If a dog walker hasn't seen me and / or has a yappy dog on lead
stretched all across the path then caution is to be exercised.

Yup. There is a drawback to that plan as I'm sure you've discovered.
The scenario - night-time, you're riding along and a ped has clearly
seen you and is standing aside. It hasn't occurred to them that they
really ought to do something about their dog on the other side of the
path on the end of an invisible black lead. Whenever I see a ped, I
always look for a dog!

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

Simon L said the following on 07/06/2007 14:17:

Quoted message said:

if you know how much [censored] there is on the old railway path to
Whitchurch you might understand my frustration.

When I cycle in the local woods, I always have a water bottle with me.
Not to drink from, but to jet-wash dog [censored] off my tyres :-( The
problem is with the owners though, not the dogs.

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

Simon L said:

BigRab said:

Remember that your (say) 15 mph is maybe 5 x pedestrian speed.
It's (ok stretching the limits!) the same as a car passing you at 100
mph on the road. Think what you'd mutter at them LOL
Robert

Do you pass peds at (say) 5mph? Based on my description of events, the
concencus is that I was going too fast. Does the highway code have any
suggestions?

"105: Drive at a speed that will allow you to stop well within the
distance you can see to be clear."

Cheers,
Luke

--
Red Rose Ramblings, the diary of an Essex boy in
exile in Lancashire <http://www.shrimper.org.uk>

Paul Boyd said:

Simon L said the following on 07/06/2007 14:17:

Quoted message said:

if you know how much [censored] there is on the old railway path to
Whitchurch you might understand my frustration.

When I cycle in the local woods, I always have a water bottle with me.
Not to drink from, but to jet-wash dog [censored] off my tyres :-( The
problem is with the owners though, not the dogs.

It may be a little obsessive-compulsive of me, but I hope you wouldn't
mind if I didn't take a drink from you if we were to go riding
together. 🙂

A

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

When I cycle in the local woods, I always have a water bottle with me.
Not to drink from, but to jet-wash dog [censored] off my tyres :-( The
problem is with the owners though, not the dogs.

As a cyclist and a dog owner I have two comments:

(1) Any cyclist who shares a path with pedestrians, and particularly
with ones with a dog should slow down to walking pace to pass if you
cannot pass within a reasonable distance, say 5M. The dog may see you
as a threat when approaching at speed and will become unpredictable
for both you and the owners.

(2) If you're cycling off a recognised path through the woods then
you're going to get all kinds of [censored] on your tyres, dog, badger,
deer, bird, etc, that's to be expected. If you're on the path then the
dirty dog owners should pick it up. Voice your opinion to the owners
as you pass.

Kevin said:

Any cyclist who shares a path with pedestrians, and particularly
with ones with a dog should slow down to walking pace to pass if you
cannot pass within a reasonable distance, say 5M.

I havn't seen many motorists slowing to walking pace when passing
within 5m of pedestrians.

in message <[email hidden]>, Simon L

(') said:

If anyone knows the cycleway / footpath that goes along the Avon north
of Bristol Temple Meads to Barton HIll, you'll know where I mean.

It's a shared use path with no dividing lines. The width varies
considerably from barely room for two bikes to pass comfortably,
although there is often plenty more than that.

It's downhill towards BTM so I'm probably doing 17 - 20 mph on a
straight bit with good visiblity, quite a few dog walkers around and a
pair are in front of me facing me dragging along a dog that's more
like a horse.

On passing them I hear something muttered that only after I've passed
do I make out. They were standing at the side of the path for me to
pass holding the dog tightly and I was surprised to be asked to Slow
down (please).

Not sure where I'm going with this thread, maybe she has a point. I'm
quite careful around dogs as I don't want to run the [censored] over and
hurt myself. I felt I was riding within my safety limits, she didn't.
End of story?

There are two sides to this. Shared use paths are essentially dangerous at
any useful speed, and should be avoided if you want to get anywhere
reasonably quickly. OTOH, if it is a shared use path then it isn't a
responsible thing to walk dogs on it. So I think there's a bit of fault on
both sides, and I certainly think it's reasonable for pedestrians to ask
you to slow down to about 10-12mph if you are passing close to them.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

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