Hey Victor

modom (palindrome guy) said:

Ruhlman answered my query about pastrami. Well, it was a response. He
forwarded my question to Brian Polcyn about dry cures vs brining the
beef before smoking it. Polcyn responded that a dry cure would work,
but that it would take longer. Polcyn also said "Montreal beef the
cousin to pastrami is sometimes dry cured in a few areas."

They appear to have stayed away from what is traditional.

Now I have to find out about Montreal beef.

Thanks for getting back to me, Mike. Perhaps it would be interesting to
compare the results side-by-side.

Victor

"modom (palindrome guy)" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Now I have to find out about Montreal beef.

Road Trip? Montreal Smoked Beef I think is the proper Name. I Think it is
availible in most large centers in Canada....very tasty in a sandwhich.

http://tinyurl.com/35j4ha for one recipe

--

The house of the burning beet-Alan

It'll be a sunny day in August, when the Moon will shine that night-
Elbonian Folklore

On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 23:56:48 +0200, [email hidden] (Victor Sack)

Quoted message said:

modom (palindrome guy) said:

Ruhlman answered my query about pastrami. Well, it was a response. He
forwarded my question to Brian Polcyn about dry cures vs brining the
beef before smoking it. Polcyn responded that a dry cure would work,
but that it would take longer. Polcyn also said "Montreal beef the
cousin to pastrami is sometimes dry cured in a few areas."

They appear to have stayed away from what is traditional.

Now I have to find out about Montreal beef.

Thanks for getting back to me, Mike. Perhaps it would be interesting to
compare the results side-by-side.

Indeed. This latest batch (from the Ruhlman/Polcyn book) was good,
but too salty, and the cure didn't make it to the center of the
brisket. There is a small, but significant, oval of uncured beef
inside the slabs o' meat. You can see it because it's not pink like
the cured parts.

I soaked some of the smoked meat in water overnight, and it's much
better after some of the salt cure has leached out of it. Maybe I
measured wrong this time around. Or maybe the chunk of meat wasn't
big enough for the amount of cure. That would explain the saltiness,
anyway. The uncured part, can only mean that it wasn't left in the
cure lone enough, which is a different matter.

This charcuterie topic is hugely complex, and I'm only here to dabble
in it, alas. And in the mix is the fact that I changed smokers
between batches. We have a lot of variables to track here.

Imagine the poor sods who first figured it out. It must have been a
nightmare.
--

modom

--
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hahabogus said:

"modom (palindrome guy)" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Now I have to find out about Montreal beef.

Road Trip? Montreal Smoked Beef I think is the proper Name. I Think it is
availible in most large centers in Canada....very tasty in a sandwhich.

http://tinyurl.com/35j4ha for one recipe

Thanks Alan. My culinary world just grew bigger because of this info.
And I'm left to wonder about its effect on the development of Texas
barbecue via the Acadian Diaspora to the coast of the Gulf of Mexico
after "what went down on the plains of Abraham" -- as the song goes.

Maybe I should run up to Montreal sometime soon to get a sandwich.

Road trip!
--

modom

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

"modom (palindrome guy)" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

hahabogus said:

"modom (palindrome guy)" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Now I have to find out about Montreal beef.

Road Trip? Montreal Smoked Beef I think is the proper Name. I Think it
is availible in most large centers in Canada....very tasty in a
sandwhich.

http://tinyurl.com/35j4ha for one recipe

Thanks Alan. My culinary world just grew bigger because of this info.
And I'm left to wonder about its effect on the development of Texas
barbecue via the Acadian Diaspora to the coast of the Gulf of Mexico
after "what went down on the plains of Abraham" -- as the song goes.

War of 1812? Where Canadians burned the white house (and I don't mean the
rib joint)?

Quoted message said:

Maybe I should run up to Montreal sometime soon to get a sandwich.

Road trip!
--

modom

I erred (yes again) its Montreal Smoked Meat... but made with beef. I can
get it here and you could probably get it in major City in Canada. It is a
Jewish invention and Winnipeg has a lot of Jews...not a bad thing when
talking food or anything else. But I'd try Montreal because of the other
foods...like their bagels, rye breads. Not that the rye bread here is bad
even Harry D praised it. And deli meats are best served on rye bread in my
world. A nice rye with a crust so hard you need a hacksaw to cut it.

--

The house of the burning beet-Alan

It'll be a sunny day in August, when the Moon will shine that night-
Elbonian Folklore

modom (palindrome guy) said:

Indeed. This latest batch (from the Ruhlman/Polcyn book) was good,
but too salty, and the cure didn't make it to the center of the
brisket. There is a small, but significant, oval of uncured beef
inside the slabs o' meat. You can see it because it's not pink like
the cured parts.

What is the texture like? Firm or fall-apart? Pastrami from Zabar's
had an almost fall-apart texture and this is often true of the Turkish
pastirma. Armenian basturma is always firm and often chewy, and has a
garlicky taste.

Victor

On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 23:54:31 +0200, [email hidden] (Victor Sack)

Quoted message said:

modom (palindrome guy) said:

Indeed. This latest batch (from the Ruhlman/Polcyn book) was good,
but too salty, and the cure didn't make it to the center of the
brisket. There is a small, but significant, oval of uncured beef
inside the slabs o' meat. You can see it because it's not pink like
the cured parts.

What is the texture like? Firm or fall-apart? Pastrami from Zabar's
had an almost fall-apart texture and this is often true of the Turkish
pastirma. Armenian basturma is always firm and often chewy, and has a
garlicky taste.

Victor

Now you two are getting me interested in making some pastrami. I just
ordered curing salts from www.sausagemaker.com. I have the
Charcuterie book, and while bacon is first on my list to make from
that book, pastrami is sounding very good as well.
That and pancetta, if I can find a decent place to cure it. NM is not
exactly humid..and all I have is a fridge.

Christine

On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 23:54:31 +0200, [email hidden] (Victor Sack)

Quoted message said:

modom (palindrome guy) said:

Indeed. This latest batch (from the Ruhlman/Polcyn book) was good,
but too salty, and the cure didn't make it to the center of the
brisket. There is a small, but significant, oval of uncured beef
inside the slabs o' meat. You can see it because it's not pink like
the cured parts.

What is the texture like? Firm or fall-apart? Pastrami from Zabar's
had an almost fall-apart texture and this is often true of the Turkish
pastirma. Armenian basturma is always firm and often chewy, and has a
garlicky taste.

Initially this batch was firm, but I wrapped it in foil and roasted it
in a low oven for about 90 minutes to get it more tender. That wasn't
part of the recipe, but I mostly used the recipe for the proportions
of sugar, spices, salt and sodium nitrite in the cure. After that, I
had at it with the smoker. I know about smoking meat pretty much. The
recipe calls for roasting the pastrami in a water bath before carving.
The texture of my pastrami now is more like somewhat underdone Texas
barbecue beef. It's too firm to be right in the barbecue department,
but that makes slicing it thinly easier.

The flavor is improved since I soaked it in water overnight to remove
some of the saltiness. I soaked it before the second roasting. I
have a chunk of it I'm planning on taking to Baton Rouge near the end
of the month when D, my sister and I do the first test of the Great
Remoulade Tour. The pastrami's not for consumption with remoulade, of
course. It's for my parents to taste.
--

modom

--
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Christine Dabney said:

On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 23:54:31 +0200, [email hidden] (Victor Sack)

Quoted message said:

modom (palindrome guy) said:

Indeed. This latest batch (from the Ruhlman/Polcyn book) was good,
but too salty, and the cure didn't make it to the center of the
brisket. There is a small, but significant, oval of uncured beef
inside the slabs o' meat. You can see it because it's not pink like
the cured parts.

What is the texture like? Firm or fall-apart? Pastrami from Zabar's
had an almost fall-apart texture and this is often true of the Turkish
pastirma. Armenian basturma is always firm and often chewy, and has a
garlicky taste.

Victor

Now you two are getting me interested in making some pastrami. I just
ordered curing salts from www.sausagemaker.com. I have the
Charcuterie book, and while bacon is first on my list to make from
that book, pastrami is sounding very good as well.
That and pancetta, if I can find a decent place to cure it. NM is not
exactly humid..and all I have is a fridge.

Christine

I want to make prosciutto. I think I have a line on some pastured pig
meat. Now all I need is a place to keep it at 60F for 5-6 months. I'm
working on that.
--

modom

--
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Christine Dabney said:

Now you two are getting me interested in making some pastrami. I just
ordered curing salts from www.sausagemaker.com. I have the
Charcuterie book, and while bacon is first on my list to make from
that book, pastrami is sounding very good as well.

I've never liked pastrami much, but Armenian basturma can be supreme.

Quoted message said:

That and pancetta, if I can find a decent place to cure it. NM is not
exactly humid..and all I have is a fridge.

Mmm... pancetta. What I like even better is guanciale. Here is a
recipe by Mario Batali, from
<http://www.babbonyc.com/in-guanciale.html>. Also see a very good
illustrated blog entry at
<http://www.themorningnews.org/archives/how_to/the_art_of_the_cure.php>.

Victor

GUANCIALE
While most pork bacon products are taken from the belly of a pig,
Guanciale is made by drying the meat from a hog's jowls. Though the
resulting meat is leaner than traditional pork pieces, it has a
noticeably richer flavor. It is this richness, combined with a delicate
porkiness, that more than merits the meat's three-week drying period.
Making guanciale may require a little more planning than simply buying
good-quality bacon or pancetta, but its abundance of flavor
distinguishes guanciale from the rest, making every dish that much more
succulent. At Babbo, we use our homemade guanciale all over the place,
but nowhere is its fullness of flavor and porky richness more celebrated
than in our bucatini all'amatriciana.

Makes 2 pounds
1/2 cup sugar
1/2 cup kosher salt
10 to 15 whole black peppercorns
4 sprigs of fresh thyme leaves
2 pounds hog jowls

1. In a medium bowl, combine the sugar, salt, peppercorns and thyme.
Coat the hog jowls with the mixture, rubbing gently. Place the jowls in
a nonreactive casserole, cover, and refrigerate for 5 to 7 days.
2. Remove the jowls from the casserole and tie a piece of butcher's
twine around the middle of each. Hang the jowls in a dry cool place (it
should not be warmer than 60°F.) for at least 3 weeks. They should be
firm and dry, with a slight give. Slice and use like bacon or pancetta.

modom (palindrome guy) said:

Initially this batch was firm, but I wrapped it in foil and roasted it
in a low oven for about 90 minutes to get it more tender. That wasn't
part of the recipe, but I mostly used the recipe for the proportions
of sugar, spices, salt and sodium nitrite in the cure. After that, I
had at it with the smoker. I know about smoking meat pretty much. The
recipe calls for roasting the pastrami in a water bath before carving.
The texture of my pastrami now is more like somewhat underdone Texas
barbecue beef. It's too firm to be right in the barbecue department,
but that makes slicing it thinly easier.

Sounds interesting. Are you happy with the taste?

Victor

Victor Sack said:

GUANCIALE
While most pork bacon products are taken from the belly of a pig,
Guanciale is made by drying the meat from a hog's jowls. Though the
resulting meat is leaner than traditional pork pieces, it has a
noticeably richer flavor.

My guanciale is certainly not leaner than my pancetta. It's much
fattier than any natural piece of pork, too. I always thought that that
was its reason for being, to flavor the oil I was sautéing the sofritto.

--
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modom (palindrome guy) said:

The flavor is improved since I soaked it in water overnight to remove
some of the saltiness. I soaked it before the second roasting. I
have a chunk of it I'm planning on taking to Baton Rouge near the end
of the month when D, my sister and I do the first test of the Great
Remoulade Tour. The pastrami's not for consumption with remoulade, of
course. It's for my parents to taste.
--

modom

you could make a bastardized reuben, with remoulade in place of
thousand island dressing.

your pal,
blake

Giusi said:

My guanciale is certainly not leaner than my pancetta. It's much
fattier than any natural piece of pork, too. I always thought that that
was its reason for being, to flavor the oil I was sautéing the sofritto.

You ought to see the many variants of Speck here in Germany. Some are
almost pure fat. Ukrainian/Russian salo is also pure fat. The
guanciale I get here (have to order it online), both the "normal" and
the spiced version, contains quite a bit of meat.

Victor

Victor Sack said:

Giusi said:

My guanciale is certainly not leaner than my pancetta. It's much
fattier than any natural piece of pork, too. I always thought that that
was its reason for being, to flavor the oil I was sautéing the sofritto.

You ought to see the many variants of Speck here in Germany. Some are
almost pure fat. Ukrainian/Russian salo is also pure fat. The
guanciale I get here (have to order it online), both the "normal" and
the spiced version, contains quite a bit of meat.

Victor

http://www.flickr.com/photos/decobabe/382142220/in/set-72157594521784850/

That is a link to a photo of mine, which was hand cured by Alberta, who
teaches with me. They rear the best pork I have had since I was a kid,
but I admit that my mum had no idea of guanciale or pancetta.

The speck I buy here is very lean indeed.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Giusi said:

Victor Sack said:

Giusi <[email hidden]> wrote:

You ought to see the many variants of Speck here in Germany. Some are
almost pure fat. Ukrainian/Russian salo is also pure fat. The
guanciale I get here (have to order it online), both the "normal" and
the spiced version, contains quite a bit of meat.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/decobabe/382142220/in/set-72157594521784850/

That is a link to a photo of mine, which was hand cured by Alberta, who
teaches with me. They rear the best pork I have had since I was a kid,
but I admit that my mum had no idea of guanciale or pancetta.

The guanciale I get here has a bit less fat and more meat, but it is
very good, all the same.

Quoted message said:

The speck I buy here is very lean indeed.

That is because "speck" in Italy means a different thing, namely
basically just one variety produced more or less uniformly in South
Tyrol/Alto Adige. Look for "lardo" instead. Try lardo di Arnad or
lardo di Colonnata.

Victor

Giusi said:

Try and stop me! Once a year I have crostini with lardo di colonnata.
I've had visiting friends go white at the idea when it arrives at table,
and the name is truly unfortunate for English speakers. But what
heavenly stuff!

If you can find it, also try Hungarian paprika speck (lardo, in Italian
terms). Pick makes a very nice one. Here is a picture:
<http://www.pick.hu/en/download_image.php?path=../media/picture/termektar_cmyk/en_de/&filename=paprika_fat.jpg>.

Victor

On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 17:45:25 GMT, blake murphy <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

you could make a bastardized reuben, with remoulade in place of
thousand island dressing.

You are a genius. Remoulade reubens will rule.
--

modom

--
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On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 23:48:14 +0200, [email hidden] (Victor Sack)

Quoted message said:

Sounds interesting. Are you happy with the taste?

This time it isn't as good as the first time. I think that has to do
with changing smokers between batches. Also the first batch I used
grass-fed beef, but the second time it was just store-bought.
Generally, I'm happy with it, though.
--

modom

--
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