Fixed-Gear Bikes: Why?

"Sheldon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

"Slowly" is a waste, don't buy a freewheel right away, start with the fixed sprocket only. You
might need to buy a couple of them before you find the optimal gear for your situation.

I haven't ever used clips or clipless (maybe once), so I thought it would be a good idea to get used
to being attached to the pedals when I could coast, and then try riding fixed.

"Salus populi suprema lex." - Cicero On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:47:18 -0500, "David L. Johnson"

Quoted message said:

John Dacey said:

I think you do a real disservice by dismissing the potential for mischief if you pull a foot at
speed. At high cadences, the resulting imbalance can, and often has, caused even highly
accomplished track sprinters to crash. Occasionally you hear of someone riding one of these
incidents out, but that's hardly the norm.

Quoted message said:

I think you are doing a disservice by suggesting this happens commonly.

I don't think there's been any prior mention of the frequency of incidence. My comments were made to
counter a spectacularly incorrect claim that there was "not really" any danger that could flow from
having one foot disengage from a fixed-gear bike and that such situations could be easily managed
with "a little skill, technique and finese (sic)". Since you raise the matter of how often it
occurs, though, I note that elsewhere in this thread you said that you've used double straps even
for commuting. If pullout is as rare as your critique here connotes, why take such heroic measures
as double straps to prevent it?

Quoted message said:

Such pull-outs tend to happen in flat-out sprints, which most of us don't do all that often. They
also happen with some pedals (Looks) more than others. I commuted for years with a fixed gear with
toe-clips and straps, and ordinary street shoes.

Sprinting is one example, also starting in events against the clock. There's also some danger of
pulling a foot if you reach a point of being so spun out that pedalling mechanics deteriorate to the
point where your foot twists from its normal plane in the pedal stroke. In short, if it happens,
it's infinitely more likely to happen in high intensity situations; it should be no surprise that
you'd commute for ages at moderate intensity levels without incident. It's not like people pop out
of their pedals at epidemic rates, but if it happens to you at a high pedalling cadence I think
you'll do everything you can to ensure it doesn't happen again.

Quoted message said:

Never had a problem pulling out.

How different would Olympic cycling history be if only you'd shared the secrets of your success with
Dave Grylls or Shane Kelly!
-------------------------------
John Dacey Business Cycles, Miami, Florida Now in our twenty-first year. Our catalog of track
equipment: eighth year online. businesscycles.combusinesscycles.comOpen ↗

"David L. Johnson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

(Pete Cresswell) said:

RE/

Quoted message said:

Short answer: Feels Good!

What's your perception of the danger factor?

Seems like the rider is in deep doo-doo if a foot comes off a pedal

while

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

underway.

Non-issue. Now, I don't use platform pedals with a fixed gear, but

time

Quoted message said:

was when I use toe-clips and straps with ordinary shoes. Never

recalled a

Quoted message said:

foot losing contact with a pedal.

It was not an uncommon problem for me when I tried some [censored] Look-type pedals (Mavic) on my track
bike. My foot would come out, and I would have to flail one-legged for about 15 yards before getting
back in the pedals. It was a problem on the Alpenrose track where the banks are so steep that you
cannot stay up unless you are doing about 15mph.

The bike messenger fondness for fixed gears has three reasons, IMO: (1) ease of maintenance, (2)
ease of use, and (3) style. Style is a big deal. In fact, I was walking around downtown here in PDX
checking out the messenger bikes, and half of them had full-on track bikes that cost twice as much
as my road bike and which were totally impractical for winter riding. One kid had a spanky-new
Merckx which barely accommodated 20 or 23mm clinchers (hard to tell exactly what size they were --
but they were not 25mm). There was probably a paper-width between the top of the tire and the bottom
of the crown -- and no through bolt hole to mount fenders. This thing is going to be a leaf catcher
now that the storm season has arrived and the streets are carpeted. Other kids had equally expensive
and exotic track machines which exuded style. Where do these guys (and gals) get the money? I have
never seen any of them at the track and doubt that they are winning these things. -- Jay Beattie.

Jacobe Hazzard <[email hidden]> wrote:
: I haven't ever used clips or clipless (maybe once), so I thought it would be a good idea to get
: used to being attached to the pedals when I could coast, and then try riding fixed.

i learned clipless pedals for the first time on my fixed gear (also for the first time). i'm not
going to say it was especially pretty but it's not all that challenging.

the only differences are that you need to engage "on the fly" (i would say you learn "better"
because of this -- even on my freewheel'd bike i engage while spinning). and you have to make sure
you disengage when your favoured side is, umm, down. (this caused my one and only fall -- i stopped
at a stop sign left side high, couldn't rotate out and bit it).

i say go for it.
--
david reuteler [email hidden]

Tom Paterson said:

Why would the max. lean angle change for a fixed?

Because you might catch a pedal. On a road bike you can keep the inside pedal up, allowing as much
lean as your tires can take. I suggest, though, that the difference is small --- at least for a real
track bike with a high bottom bracket. For an old converted road bike meant for 27" tires, it might
be more serious.

Quoted message said:

Even with clipless pedals, you can still hear an occasional pedal strike out of a pack of
cornering racers, some pedaling, some not.

If they are not pedaling, the inside pedal should be up (doesn't everyone ride that way?) so pedal
strikes should only happen when pedalling through a corner, which on a road bike is something you
don't do at maximum lean.

Quoted message said:

Can't (won't even try) corner as fast, can't bunny hop or wiggle around obstacles as well due to
all those large muscles flying around (a man's gotta know his limitations).

Well, bunny hops are harder, yes, but wiggle-arounds seem natural to me on either bike.

Quoted message said:

Thrilling element of risk going down any long and/or steep hill-- although "they haven't locked up
yet", I've always wondered if the old legs will

Quoted message said:

uphill. That could get messy.

Hasn't happened to me, yet, either.

Quoted message said:

Oh yeah, one technical item that I never worried about until I saw a couple of chain unshippings
at the track. That could get messy, too, even with front and rear brakes available.

Yeah, I suppose. $10 for a new chain now and then seems to be a wise investment.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | What is objectionable, and what is dangerous about extremists is _`\(,_ | not that they are
extreme, but that they are intolerant. (_)/ (_) | --Robert F. Kennedy

Mark Hickey said:

I also chose my gears to suit the riding I do on my fixie (basically the same as the riding I do
on a multi-geared bike most of the time). That equates to a 53x16 gear (about 89"😉.

That is pretty tall. In fact, it's a bigger gear than I used back when I was racing. Well, when I
started I used a 24/7, but when I got rid of the block chain I used a 48/15, which is an 84" gear.

That would be a bit big for me now even on the flats. But, to each his own.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | And what if you track down these men and kill them, what if you _`\(,_ | killed all of us?
From every corner of Europe, hundreds, (_)/ (_) | thousands would rise up to take our places.
Even Nazis can't kill that fast. -- Paul Henreid (Casablanca).

John Dacey said:

Quoted message said:

I think you are doing a disservice by suggesting this happens commonly.

I don't think there's been any prior mention of the frequency of incidence.

But suggesting that it is a real concern does imply that it is not rare.

Quoted message said:

Since you raise the matter of how often it occurs, though, I note that elsewhere in this thread
you said that you've used double straps even for commuting. If pullout is as rare as your critique
here connotes, why take such heroic measures as double straps to prevent it?

That was back in my racing days. I think some trackie sugggested it to me, and it felt like a
stronger connection between shoe and bike. It was, probably, just a macho thing. But once I put them
on one bike, they went on all.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | "What am I on? I'm on my bike, six hours a day, busting my ass. _`\(,_ | What are you on?"
--Lance Armstrong (_)/ (_) |

Eduardo L P Jr said:

Are you Mr.Porto's american friend?

As a matter of fact, yes.

Quoted message said:

I was born at Sao Paulo, but now I live 350 km far away... My city (300000 hab) is so pleasant
to ride my
F.G.

300000 inhabitants -- quite a change from Sao Paulo.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | It is a scientifically proven fact that a mid life crisis can _`\(,_ | only be cured by
something racy and Italian. Bianchis and (_)/ (_) | Colnagos are a lot cheaper than Maserattis
and Ferraris. -- Glenn Davies

"Sheldon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Folks try fixed gear riding for lots of reasons, even including macho posing, but it doesn't
matter what gets them to try it, because once they've done it a couple of weeks, and gotten past
the unfamiliarity, they're hooked by how much FUN it is.

It's not FUN for everyone that tries it. I found having to pedal around turns pretty much removed
whatever fun it offered. Not because of pedal strikes or anything like that, but one of the things I
enjoy the most about riding is coasting and slicing smoothly through turns.

Now, singlespeeds, that's what I'm talkin' bout.

Ed Chait

What's the fun part of riding? Coasting downhill, of course. The fixed gear fixes that.

RE/

Quoted message said:

It's not FUN for everyone that tries it. I found having to pedal around turns pretty much removed
whatever fun it offered. Not because of pedal strikes or anything like that, but one of the things
I enjoy the most about riding is coasting and slicing smoothly through turns.

Now, singlespeeds, that's what I'm talkin' bout.

What I'm getting out of this thread so far is that I should buy the hub that flips and has a fixed
gear on one side and a freewheel gear on the other....

--
PeteCresswell

David L. Johnson said:

Tom Paterson said:

Why would the max. lean angle change for a fixed?

Because you might catch a pedal. On a road bike you can keep the inside pedal up, allowing as much
lean as your tires can take. I suggest, though, that the difference is small --- at least for a
real track bike with a high bottom bracket. For an old converted road bike meant for 27" tires, it
might be more serious.

Ah, but there's more: with the pedals not moving, it's easier to lean your body more than you are
leaning the bike -- possibly allowing even more lean angle.

Granted, I've never needed more lean angle than I could get with the inside pedal up (nor, in fact,
do I recall ever even approaching that limit)...but I suspect that it's damn near impossible to lean
your body much away from the bike while continuing to pedal.

When I build a fixie, I'll try it. I think I'll wear full body armor while I do it...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Even with clipless pedals, you can still hear an occasional pedal strike out of a pack of
cornering racers, some pedaling, some not.

If they are not pedaling, the inside pedal should be up (doesn't everyone ride that way?) so pedal
strikes should only happen when pedalling through a corner, which on a road bike is something you
don't do at maximum lean.

Some people level the pedals for a corner. I don't know if any racers do.
--
Rick Onanian

David L. Johnson said:

John Dacey said:

Quoted message said:

I think you are doing a disservice by suggesting this happens commonly.

I don't think there's been any prior mention of the frequency of incidence.

But suggesting that it is a real concern does imply that it is not rare.

Not every kid with a book of matches will burn his house down, but that doesn't mean you can skip
the caveats about playing with fire.
-------------------------------
John Dacey Business Cycles, Miami, Florida Now in our twenty-first year. Our catalog of track
equipment: eighth year online. businesscycles.combusinesscycles.comOpen ↗

Has it struck anyone else that the fixed vs. derailer argument sounds a lot like the cycling vs.
driving argument?

Allan Leedy' may have said:

What's the fun part of riding? Coasting downhill, of course. The fixed gear fixes that.

Coasting downhill isn't broken; no need to "fix" it.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail. Yes, I have a killfile. If I
don't respond to something, it's also possible that I'm busy. Words processed in a facility that
contains nuts.

"Jacobe Hazzard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Has it struck anyone else that the fixed vs. derailer argument

sounds a lot

Quoted message said:

like the cycling vs. driving argument?

I've seen the light - I'm going to burn my car, lawnmower, helmet, rear view mirror, freewheel,
derailleurs, double crank, and brakes and join a single speed monastic bike messenger service in the
Himalayas. The only question is WHAT GEAR SHOULD I USE for going up and down Annapurna????

Rick Onanian said:

Ah, but there's more: with the pedals not moving, it's easier to lean your body more than you are
leaning the bike -- possibly allowing even more lean angle.

Nope, not really. The center of mass is what matters, not the angle of the bike itself. Same real
lean angle maximum whether or not you keep your body where it belongs, or hang a knee out like
motorcyclists do.

Quoted message said:

Granted, I've never needed more lean angle than I could get with the inside pedal up (nor, in
fact, do I recall ever even approaching that
limit)...

No one can. That limit, inside pedal up, is way past the limit of the tires to hold the road (which
is about 1g --- a 45-degree angle.).

Quoted message said:

but I suspect that it's damn near impossible to lean your body much away from the bike while
continuing to pedal.

Irrelevant. It does not help, anyway.

Quoted message said:

Some people level the pedals for a corner. I don't know if any racers

do.

Doubtful. My feeling is that the bike handles better with the outside pedal down, and with some
significant weight on that pedal.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | The trouble with the rat race is that even if you win you're _`\(,_ | still a rat. --Lilly
Tomlin (_)/ (_) |

cheg said:

"Jacobe Hazzard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Has it struck anyone else that the fixed vs. derailer argument sounds a lot like the cycling vs.
driving argument?

I've seen the light - I'm going to burn my car, lawnmower, helmet, rear view mirror, freewheel,
derailleurs, double crank, and brakes and join a single speed monastic bike messenger service in
the Himalayas. The only question is WHAT GEAR SHOULD I USE for going up and down Annapurna????

All SingleSpeeds have three gears actually. Sit, standup and walk. I imagine you'd be using the
walking gear going up Annapurna.
--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

Rick Onanian <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

David L. Johnson said:

Tom Paterson said:

Why would the max. lean angle change for a fixed?

Because you might catch a pedal. On a road bike you can keep the inside pedal up, allowing as
much lean as your tires can take. I suggest, though, that the difference is small --- at least
for a real track bike with a high bottom bracket. For an old converted road bike meant for 27"
tires, it might be more serious.

Ah, but there's more: with the pedals not moving, it's easier to lean your body more than you are
leaning the bike -- possibly allowing even more lean angle.

Granted, I've never needed more lean angle than I could get with the inside pedal up (nor, in
fact, do I recall ever even approaching that limit)...but I suspect that it's damn near impossible
to lean your body much away from the bike while continuing to pedal.

I have used the above technique on a fixed wheel with some success, but as you say it is not
possible to lean ones torso too far from the centre line of the bike. This technique is better on a
trike where the three wheels lends some degree of stability to the acrobatics of the rider, however
there comes a point on a trike where the speed of the trike and the severity of the corner force the
rider to unseat themselves to maintain momentum through the corner (see link
tricycle-association.org.ukphoto album.htmOpen ↗ ). Now, a fixed wheel trike...there's a
challenge.

Quoted message said:

When I build a fixie, I'll try it. I think I'll wear full body armor while I do it...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Even with clipless pedals, you can still hear an occasional pedal strike out of a pack of
cornering racers, some pedaling, some not.

If they are not pedaling, the inside pedal should be up (doesn't everyone ride that way?) so
pedal strikes should only happen when pedalling through a corner, which on a road bike is
something you don't do at maximum lean.

Some people level the pedals for a corner. I don't know if any racers do.

I was taught to put most my weight on the outside pedal whilst still maintaining contact with the
saddle and a firm but light grip on the bars whilst cornering hard, does anyone else practise this?

Regards, David Bonner. Rep of Ireland.

David L. Johnson said:

John Dacey said:

Quoted message said:

I think you are doing a disservice by suggesting this happens commonly.

I don't think there's been any prior mention of the frequency of incidence.

But suggesting that it is a real concern does imply that it is not rare.

wrong again--there are any number of things that are real concerns that are rare.