Pro cycling sucks !

I know how you feel, but not all the pros are idiotic, self-sentered, [censored], like the rest of these dopers. Sure many are, but many are clean. It's sad, cause I'm still young, I would hope to go pro, but if everyone is doping, and I stay clean, I don't have a chance.

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Apparently there are those who agree with you.

The only saving grace of Pro Cycling is that there does appear to be a serious, concerted effort to expose and eject dopers. It appears that they are doing far more than any other organized sport is doing but that does not erase the shame and disgust we now endure.

A friend of mine made the point that we can not truly rid any sport of dopers untill we make changes in our society, a society that as whole is increasingly devoid of any moral fiber.

I am using this as an opportunity to teach my children and the children I coach about integrity.

Gee, over the last year, the NHL administered 1600 drug tests....0 positive, no dog fights, what a boring bunch to have my kids idolize.

Oms said:

That's it...... sorry to say.....lost total interest in pro cycling !!!!!! The Tour sucks !!!! Pro cyclist are plain stupid and brainless !!!

There should be a one year cleansing period starting after the 2007 TDF..... no races.... everybody "dries out" .... stop taking drugs.... everybody gets used to training without drugs for one year ....next race = 2008 TDF.

That's my opinion after latest TDF saga.

Oms

Easy tiger!
how do they pay their mortgages? where do their wages come from? Sponsors! and sponsors need races to get there name out there, if you stop races , the dopers win!

stlblues said:

Gee, over the last year, the NHL administered 1600 drug tests....0 positive, no dog fights, what a boring bunch to have my kids idolize.

I'm sure no hockey player would ever think of using steroids. Neither would baseball players, basketball players, footballs players, etc. Only cyclists dope--or maybe only cycling is making an effort to clean itself up.

If you spend years sweeping the dirt under the rug it stinks bad when you finally lift the carpet up to clean.

I think this had to happen to make this sport better. I can see why Vino doped. This was his last tour and he wanted to win but he fell off and had no chance of winning then he took the greedy option and failed badly

[left]disagreeden with the original topic title and premise...

cheats are being caught

the house of cards is cracking, falling------just as Greg Lemond predicted

pro cycling can recover from this i think...and restore faith in hard work, sweat, and god-given talent

[/left]

Bro Deal said:

I'm sure no hockey player would ever think of using steroids. Neither would baseball players, basketball players, footballs players, etc. Only cyclists dope--or maybe only cycling is making an effort to clean itself up.

Not saying they wouldn't think of it, and its VERY common and proven in baseball, I personally know an NFLer that has, basketball--duh they do everything including Flintstones vitamins to crack. The NHL is the only sports organization that has a record of negative drug tests. I've seen some on the local level try it. They didn't make it because of the negative effects, yes they were stronger, and more aggresive, but it affected thier reflexes and coordination which reign supreme in hockey. Its disapppointing that it happens in cycling,

stlblues said:

Gee, over the last year, the NHL administered 1600 drug tests....0 positive, no dog fights, what a boring bunch to have my kids idolize.

As a percentage of participants, the NHL delivered far fewer tests than the cycling federations and authorities, magnitudes fewer. If you think your hockey players are some how cut from different moral fiber.....well....then either you're terribly naive or an idiot.

alienator said:

As a percentage of participants, the NHL delivered far fewer tests than the cycling federations and authorities, magnitudes fewer. If you think your hockey players are some how cut from different moral fiber.....well....then either you're terribly naive or an idiot.

I have not ever followed Hockey very closely but like rugby and fighting sports, which are great, mostly clean sports, the only drug that could really enhance performance would be pain medicene. Either you can hang or you can't, there is no escaping pain and brutality.

I know hockey players, and most of them like those of us that have played rugby or competed in fighting sport are to self-conscious and invested to much to take drugs. When I was coming up, the team meant more to us than our own selves did.

azul_fahrrad said:

I have not ever followed Hockey very closely but like rugby and fighting sports, which are great, mostly clean sports, the only drug that could really enhance performance would be pain medicene. Either you can hang or you can't, there is no escaping pain and brutality.

I know hockey players, and most of them like those of us that have played rugby or competed in fighting sport are to self-conscious and invested to much to take drugs. When I was coming up, the team meant more to us than our own selves did.

This is so naive it's laughable. I know many bike riders and racers, and their all clean. What does that say about pro cycling? Nothing.

That you think that the people you know or think you know care more, are more invested, or more self-concious than cyclists, is at least self-congratulatory and at worst, stupid.

There are all sorts of drugs available to any sports person. Those drugs don't have to just suit the "needs" of cyclists. There are drugs that can suit the "needs" of hockey players or any other sportsman.

And who the hell said anyone is taking PED's to alleviate pain? Do you even understand the pain and suffering involved in the worst stages of a bike race or involved in the entire race? No, you don't.

The naivete of people in general is what is distressingly dumbfounding.

You clearly don't understand what is going on with drugs in sport.

And please tell us all how you know exactly what sports are mostly clean. There is no sport that comes even close to testing like cycling does. Not a single one. And guess what: if you don't test, you don't find things you don't want to know about.

alienator said:

This is so naive it's laughable. I know many bike riders and racers, and their all clean. What does that say about pro cycling? Nothing.

That you think that the people you know or think you know care more, are more invested, or more self-concious than cyclists, is at least self-congratulatory and at worst, stupid.

There are all sorts of drugs available to any sports person. Those drugs don't have to just suit the "needs" of cyclists. There are drugs that can suit the "needs" of hockey players or any other sportsman.

And who the hell said anyone is taking PED's to alleviate pain? Do you even understand the pain and suffering involved in the worst stages of a bike race or involved in the entire race? No, you don't.

The naivete of people in general is what is distressingly dumbfounding.

You clearly don't understand what is going on with drugs in sport.

And please tell us all how you know exactly what sports are mostly clean. There is no sport that comes even close to testing like cycling does. Not a single one. And guess what: if you don't test, you don't find things you don't want to know about.

I know the pain I have felt playing rugby, football, boxing, running, cycling. I have boxed 4 rounds with a broken nose, I played an entire season of football with a broken collar bone, I have played 3 quarters to finish out a football game with a torn ligament in my knee. I have some idea of what pain is.

What is dumbfounding is those who think that their knowledge, understanding and wisdom can trump the opinions, views or experiences everyone else despite lacking any foundation on which to speak or at the very least any more of a foundation than those they seem to think they trump.

All sports have always had cheaters, neither I nor anyone else contest that point.

Not all sports have deteriorated to the point that Cycling or the big 3 have. Other sports don't test as much because the problem simply as big or widespread.

Pro football and basketball players have seem to project an attitude of superiority, of being above reproach and that is echoed as their personal live spill out into courtrooms and newspapers. It is creeping into pro baseball. Doping in pro cycling seems to be more out of desperation than anything else.

Whatever the reason, whatever the sport, doping, lying to avoid drug tests, cheating in shape, form or fashion is wrong, immoral, etc.

I don't who [censored] in your Wheaties but if you wish to continue your personal attack on me, you should get to know me first so that your comments will at least be more accurate.

I agree with Alienater, every sport has some sort of drug, i'm sure rugby players have blood doping, steroids, pain killers, and many of the same things as cycling. Pain killers have been around in the tdf since the first year, 1903, the riders would kep alchohal in their water containers, no water bottles back then, to kill the pain from the ride, talk aboutdrinking and driving :p And there are sports just as bad, if not wosre than cycling in doping/cheating

azul_fahrrad said:

I know the pain I have felt playing rugby, football, boxing, running, cycling. I have boxed 4 rounds with a broken nose, I played an entire season of football with a broken collar bone, I have played 3 quarters to finish out a football game with a torn ligament in my knee. I have some idea of what pain is.

So? You talked as if the drugs were all about pain. It's not. And you talked as if cyclist don't experience the rich pain that other athletic gamesmen experience, which is complete BS. And now, you want to play a pain suffering comparison contest?

azul_fahrrad said:

What is dumbfounding is those who think that their knowledge, understanding and wisdom can trump the opinions, views or experiences everyone else despite lacking any foundation on which to speak or at the very least any more of a foundation than those they seem to think they trump.

This is true insofar as your belief that other sports are "cleaner." You have no factual basis for this. None. Therefore, the idea is only "faith" to you, far from fact. The FACT is that no other sport comes anywhere close to testing like cycling does. Not a single other sport or athletic game. Cycling does more tests by several orders of magnitude more than every other sport, and it doesn't matter how you couch those stats: total number of tests; average total number of tests per competitor; or whatever. In fact, it is cycling that is leading the charge and leading the development of testing regimes and methods.

The reason so many cyclists are being caught is because so many are being tested. If every other sport tested as rigorously, then you would see the number of athletes "caught" in each sport go way up. That is a fact.

azul_fahrrad said:

All sports have always had cheaters, neither I nor anyone else contest that point.

No, actually you did say and imply that hockey, boxing, and other sports don't have the same problems. You did say they were cleaner. Moreover, you implied that your personal experience showed that "athletes" in these other sports were of higher integrity than cyclists and would not dope. Such a statement is untenable on its face.

azul_fahrrad said:

Not all sports have deteriorated to the point that Cycling or the big 3 have. Other sports don't test as much because the problem simply as big or widespread.

Yeah, right. And if cycling didn't do all of the testing it does, then all of the cyclists who've been caught in recent years would still be racing, and cycling would seem much more clean.

You have zero facts on your side with this claim. How do these other sports know they don't have a problem if they don't test as rigorously as cycling, eh? You can't. That is a fact, one you can't argue around.

azul_fahrrad said:

Pro football and basketball players have seem to project an attitude of superiority, of being above reproach and that is echoed as their personal live spill out into courtrooms and newspapers. It is creeping into pro baseball. Doping in pro cycling seems to be more out of desperation than anything else.

The different reasons for doping or drub abuse in ANY sport are the same. People that play baseball or basketball or not different than any other athletes or sportsmen. Such an idea shows a terrible bias.

azul_fahrrad said:

I don't who [censored] in your Wheaties but if you wish to continue your personal attack on me, you should get to know me first so that your comments will at least be more accurate.

No one [censored] in my Wheaties, thank you. If you aren't prepared to have your ideas challenged, then don't post them in public forums.

alienator said:

As a percentage of participants, the NHL delivered far fewer tests than the cycling federations and authorities, magnitudes fewer. If you think your hockey players are some how cut from different moral fiber.....well....then either you're terribly naive or an idiot.

You obviously know nothing of hockey and its participants philosophys. Pain actually acts as to invigorate and charge players. I've played with a broken rib and fingers and take nothing stronger than Tylenol. Everyone I know that plays, from local leagues to the NHLers do it for the love of the game. The three NFLers I know do it for the money...thats it. You have no concept of the game and what it takes to play, and how doping hurts perfomance in this and a few other games, not enhances. You are the one thats either naive or an idiot. I wouldn't say hockey players are cut from a different moral fiber, but definatly a different mind set. Even our youngest players on up know the only way to get bettter at hockey, the most complicated sport to play, is constant practice....not drugs.

alienator said:

This is so naive it's laughable. I know many bike riders and racers, and their all clean. What does that say about pro cycling? Nothing.

.

So, how many riders participating in the Tour do you know personally?. I know about 65 current and former NHLers including 3 Hall of Famers. Many are active in the youth divisions I coach in. These guys are some of the most clean cut, hard working, straight laced guys you are going to meet. They are very involved in the community and youth functions.

Tell ya what, come on up and hit the ice with us, you'll find streoids will do no good, and you'll be crying for pain killers because you don't get it. We cycle every week, and the pain from the longest fastest runs doesnt come close to a spirited hockey game, unless you get hit by a truck on your ride, but you'll love the pain from it. I used to practice with the Mizzou rugby team back in the early 80s. Those guys NEED drugs, mostly for mental cases, fun bunch, they drank, but no drugs. Take the hardest hit from rugby, do it on ice travelling 35 feet per second into a wall......thats hockey.

stlblues said:

So, how many riders participating in the Tour do you know personally?. I know about 65 current and former NHLers including 3 Hall of Famers. Many are active in the youth divisions I coach in. These guys are some of the most clean cut, hard working, straight laced guys you are going to meet. They are very involved in the community and youth functions.

Tell ya what, come on up and hit the ice with us, you'll find streoids will do no good, and you'll be crying for pain killers because you don't get it. We cycle every week, and the pain from the longest fastest runs doesnt come close to a spirited hockey game, unless you get hit by a truck on your ride, but you'll love the pain from it. I used to practice with the Mizzou rugby team back in the early 80s. Those guys NEED drugs, mostly for mental cases, fun bunch, they drank, but no drugs. Take the hardest hit from rugby, do it on ice travelling 35 feet per second into a wall......thats hockey.

Wow. Hockey players are a truely special class of people! I'm surprised that there hasn't been a three hour TV special about their heroism and manliness.

Again, you have no facts. And that you maintain the special, clean quality of "hockey" smacks of elitism, ignorance, and a truly misguided understanding of human beings.

I'm not impressed by your "pain" exploits. So what. I raced two motorcycle roadracing weekends with a broken wrist....so what does that tell me about doping? Not a damned thing. Once, after a climbing fall I crawled to safety on a ledge with bilaterally displaced ulna/radius factures, a broken foot, a broken knee, a smashed skull, and intracranial bleed going on. So what? That has nothing to do with hockey, cycling, drugs in sport, and is not instructive in any way whatsoever about people.

Hockey...[censored] on that. There are sports that are way tougher. Much tougher. Christ, you do enjoy your delusions don't you?

FWIW, 35mph is such a slow impact. So very slow.

stlblues said:

You obviously know nothing of hockey and its participants philosophys. Pain actually acts as to invigorate and charge players. I've played with a broken rib and fingers and take nothing stronger than Tylenol. Everyone I know that plays, from local leagues to the NHLers do it for the love of the game. The three NFLers I know do it for the money...thats it. You have no concept of the game and what it takes to play, and how doping hurts perfomance in this and a few other games, not enhances. You are the one thats either naive or an idiot. I wouldn't say hockey players are cut from a different moral fiber, but definatly a different mind set. Even our youngest players on up know the only way to get bettter at hockey, the most complicated sport to play, is constant practice....not drugs.

And now we know where Pollyanna lives.

You speak with zero facts, but you do carry an overblown idealization of your pet sports.