World class 5 min power clip example

ric_stern/RST said:

For anyone wondering about my thoughts, here's timans admission cyclingforums.comt271814.htmlOpen ↗

Hmmm, I missed that one. Thanks for the reference.

ric_stern/RST said:

He didn't make a mistake, he made a choice. It was his decision to dope, it wasn't an accident or mistake.

Either way, choice or mistake, i don't believe he should be a coach, or anyone in responsibility, or a racer.

Lastly, by the admission on the first page, he wants to help people dope "correctly".

He's scum.

Ric

Why are you being so nasty to me Ric. Calling me scum and all.
Yes I doped and I admitted it and didn't like myself while doing it, I said I am ashamed that I did, and I stopped after that one try.

No wonder more riders don't come out and admit their past doping.
Also I never won any money while doped nor took any metals from anyone....it was many years ago and only for 4 months.

Ric you said this....
"Lastly, by the admission on the first page, he wants to help people dope "correctly". "
I was not saying that I want to help guys dope correctly. In context I was saying that guys will dope anyway so if they insist then they need to be safe or it can kill you.

My athletes are not doped that's for sure. I would never put any rider through the false strength that I gained and the guilt that results from doping.

patrick_ said:

I think the first is more likely, 568 watts should result in something way below 4:50. I'd guess around 505-525 W for the 4:58 climb.

Just look at the numbers:
5:14 <=> 485 W
5:04 <=> 491.5 W
4:58 <=> 568 W

You know I think that may be correct....I kind of freaked with the 568. We'll recalibrate and try again.

That calibration has to be off or your guy is really fat 🙂

That is a pretty quick time for the observatory but it isn't that unusual. One of the guy I coach with do 5 reps of the observatory with each rep at 5:30. He is provinicially quick but definately not world class.

Another guy I talked to who has a pb of the observatory of 5:02 said he would average 410 watts. Now he is only 65kgs so obviously your guy was producing more watts.

Just lurking the doping subforum and found a comment that sounds a bit less than a zero tolerance policy Timan. cyclingforums.comt271729.htmlOpen ↗

"Personally I did not like taking dope an don't recommend it, unless you are pretty darn sure that you have the genetics, youth and the time needed to make make a decent living off our sport."

I guess you would like it more if you were younger with a little more ability then you would dope until the cops came knocking on your door or you won the tour without getting caught.🙄

TiMan said:

Why are you being so nasty to me Ric. Calling me scum and all.
Yes I doped and I admitted it and didn't like myself while doing it, I said I am ashamed that I did, and I stopped after that one try.

No wonder more riders don't come out and admit their past doping.
Also I never won any money while doped nor took any metals from anyone....it was many years ago and only for 4 months.

Ric you said this....
"Lastly, by the admission on the first page, he wants to help people dope "correctly". "
I was not saying that I want to help guys dope correctly. In context I was saying that guys will dope anyway so if they insist then they need to be safe or it can kill you.

My athletes are not doped that's for sure. I would never put any rider through the false strength that I gained and the guilt that results from doping.

TiMan said:

Why are you being so nasty to me Ric. Calling me scum and all.
Yes I doped and I admitted it and didn't like myself while doing it, I said I am ashamed that I did, and I stopped after that one try.

No wonder more riders don't come out and admit their past doping.
Also I never won any money while doped nor took any metals from anyone....it was many years ago and only for 4 months.

Stop "being nasty": You sound like a whining little baby. If you think your punishment is me "being nasty" then think again. You don't deserve to have a position of responsibility (a coach) and i don't want people like you here.

You want i should say, "you've apologised, welcome back"? Think again. There isn't any place left in sport (or at least in cycling now the authorities are starting to weed people out) for you. I don't see any child sex offenders being told that they can go work in school again.

Ric

TiMan said:

You know I think that may be correct....I kind of freaked with the 568. We'll recalibrate and try again.

You're not even a good coach. Anyone with half a brain and more than 5-minutes experience with a power meter could tell you that the cranks were wrong. You made the video to showcase how brilliant you are as a coach. You're a sham, a doper and someone who can't even calibrate or realise their SRMs are wrong. Pretty useless all round.

Ric

TiMan said:

Also I never won any money while doped nor took any metals from anyone....it was many years ago and only for 4 months.

Yet, in your doping admission thread, you clearly state: "I blood doped one season and did testosterone and epo the next", see http://www.cyclingforums.com/showpost.php?p=2137268&postcount=28

Ric

ric_stern/RST said:

Stop "being nasty": You sound like a whining little baby. If you think your punishment is me "being nasty" then think again. You don't deserve to have a position of responsibility (a coach) and i don't want people like you here.

You want i should say, "you've apologised, welcome back"? Think again. There isn't any place left in sport (or at least in cycling now the authorities are starting to weed people out) for you. I don't see any child sex offenders being told that they can go work in school again.

Ric

An anology to child sex offenders? Now you're just being a blithering hysteric. I think his is a valuable voice here, both for his perspective on the ethical problems he encountered while doping, but also his current advice on training, particularly block training. I've honestly gotten better information from his few posts than the majority of yours. Are you sure this doesn't have to do with the fact that he's essentially a comptetitor for your clients?

bbrauer said:

An anology to child sex offenders? Now you're just being a blithering hysteric. I think his is a valuable voice here, both for his perspective on the ethical problems he encountered while doping, but also his current advice on training, particularly block training. I've honestly gotten better information from his few posts than the majority of yours. Are you sure this doesn't have to do with the fact that he's essentially a comptetitor for your clients?

I agree completely!

Mr. Stern your reply shows us some negative things about your character. You have gone WAY over the top! SO WHAT if TiMan doped years back. He came clean and that takes guts. He said he was not proud of it and felt poorly pyschologically while doing it and that he stopped. Also,when does previous doping in the past disqualify anyone from being a great coach in the future. I have a lot of respect for his very well thought out posts and his mature manner on this forum and more so than yours in fact.

TiMan is right. No wonder more guys don't come out and admit their use of drugs in their past with characters like your around.

If TiMan is "scum" as you think then so are almost all of our beloved top pro's and especially the top placers in the grand tours and one day classic winners in the past 50 bloody years including Great Britain's beloved Kelly!

After all they don't ride the Tour De France on "mineral water" alone! Wake up and smell the coffee Mr. Stern! Doping is a problem and always has been but the men that have doped are not "scum" of the earth like you want us to believe. How old are you anyway?

I happen to know a former pro from the 70's that rode in the TDF that is now a very well respected coach and he said everyone was doped on amphetamines, cortisone and some anabolics and testosterone and some even used growth hormone havested from cadavers!
My brother in law is a top ameteur rider in Spain looking for a pro contract and he too said that everyone is doped including his entire team except for a couple 18 year olds. He told me that winning a big high end ameteur race in Europe without dope would be like winning Miss World without makeup! He said they are more doped than the pro's since testing is not that common.

So I guess a hell of a lot of men are "scum" in cycling eh!

Here is your crowning ridiculous statement.
"There isn't any place left in sport (or at least in cycling now the authorities are starting to weed people out) for you."
Gee Mr. Stern , I guess that means most euro pro's now doesn't it. I guess Riis is scum too and should have nothing to do with pro cycling right!

Very few riders have come clean with their previous drug use but I admire the ones that have had the guts to do so. Guys like Riis, Aldag, Manzano, and TiMan.

Now does this mean that I condone doping? Hell no!

Timan, thank you for all your great posts and for coming clean.

An anology to child sex offenders? What planet are you on Mr. Stern!

Quadsweep said:

I agree completely!
Mr. Stern your reply shows us some negative things about your character. You have gone WAY over the top! SO WHAT if TiMan doped years back. He came clean and that takes guts. He said he was not proud of it and felt poorly pyschologically while doing it and that he stopped.

To come clean means to condemn the doping past completely and entirely, at least for me. I dont know what to think if someone says: well, I dont recommend it, but here are my detailed instructions how to do it *safely*. That is the difference.

bbrauer said:

An anology to child sex offenders? Now you're just being a blithering hysteric. I think his is a valuable voice here, both for his perspective on the ethical problems he encountered while doping, but also his current advice on training, particularly block training. I've honestly gotten better information from his few posts than the majority of yours. Are you sure this doesn't have to do with the fact that he's essentially a comptetitor for your clients?

No, i'm saying that people who are child sex offenders should never work with children again. Likewise, i'm saying people that have doped shouldn't work with athletes again. I'm not comparing the crimes themself (and saying they are on a par with each other, which clearly they are not).

If you think his information is better than mine then so be it. However, as i pointed out in my previous post if he's stupid enough to go to the trouble of making a movie clip and presenting it here as being fact and useful for his business, when clearly, within seconds of anyone who understands the subject matter can realise it's baloney i think you're way off the mark.

Ric

Quadsweep said:

I agree completely!

Mr. Stern your reply shows us some negative things about your character. You have gone WAY over the top! SO WHAT if TiMan doped years back. He came clean and that takes guts. He said he was not proud of it and felt poorly pyschologically while doing it and that he stopped.

He's told of his past crime, but he hasn't been sanctioned for it, and we don't actually know who he is. It didn't take guts, he's hiding behind his screen persona.

Quoted post said:

Also,when does previous doping in the past disqualify anyone from being a great coach in the future. I have a lot of respect for his very well thought out posts and his mature manner on this forum and more so than yours in fact.

I believe it does disqualify him from being a coach (or official) in the future. There isn't a place for him, and other dopers. The sport (this one and many others) are in a big enough and bad enough mess as it is. In part this is because we continue to use people who have been dopers in the past, and who have a less than exempelary background.

Quoted post said:

If TiMan is "scum" as you think then so are almost all of our beloved top pro's and especially the top placers in the grand tours and one day classic winners in the past 50 bloody years including Great Britain's beloved Kelly!

the history of doping goes back much further than the past 50 years.

You need to get your facts correct. Sean Kelly is as much a beloved of Great Britain, as Lance Armstrong is of Canada. Kelly comes from Eire.

Quoted post said:

After all they don't ride the Tour De France on "mineral water" alone! Wake up and smell the coffee Mr. Stern! Doping is a problem and always has been but the men that have doped are not "scum" of the earth like you want us to believe. How old are you anyway?

timan is scum for still continuing to promulgate doping information.

Quoted post said:

I happen to know a former pro from the 70's that rode in the TDF that is now a very well respected coach and he said everyone was doped on amphetamines, cortisone and some anabolics and testosterone and some even used growth hormone havested from cadavers!

i used to know a burglar, and he said that many people were thieves. That didn't and doesn't make it right, does it now?

Quoted post said:

My brother in law is a top ameteur rider in Spain looking for a pro contract and he too said that everyone is doped including his entire team except for a couple 18 year olds. He told me that winning a big high end ameteur race in Europe without dope would be like winning Miss World without makeup! He said they are more doped than the pro's since testing is not that common.

so, you're saying that we should continue to use dope and get your brother in law to dope, or we should get people to stop doping and try not to let your brother in law have to need to dope?

Quoted post said:

Here is your crowning ridiculous statement.
"There isn't any place left in sport (or at least in cycling now the authorities are starting to weed people out) for you."
Gee Mr. Stern , I guess that means most euro pro's now doesn't it. I guess Riis is scum too and should have nothing to do with pro cycling right!

Very few riders have come clean with their previous drug use but I admire the ones that have had the guts to do so. Guys like Riis, Aldag, Manzano, and TiMan.

Now does this mean that I condone doping? Hell no!

Riis came clean because he had no real choice. He cheated the system and made an awful lot of money off being a cheat, and you're applauding him? Maybe it would have taken "guts" to not succumb to doping in the first place. Not 11 years later, when he's made his money and taken the prizes.

I don't think any of the dopers, including Riis, Aldag, or timan should have anything to do with officialdom in the sport. The time has come to get rid of them, and have a zero tolerance policy. At the same time we don't need ferrari's and others like him.

Ric

I've been lurking on these formum for quite a while and I've got a lot of useful insights from so many subjects discussed here.I've been quite happy to browse away without needing to post, but Ric's response to Timan has really upset me.

All I can say is Ric: you've got issues, man!

You really need to look at why you have to fly off the handle and call people 'scum'.
It's pretty infantile, if you ask me.
Ok, you might not agree with Timan for the drugs, but you've gone way over the top in name calling and getting all bent out of shape.
I have to say that I find TiMan's posts very informative.

I often find your posts, Ric, quite informative.However, I often cringe reading your posts.
You obviously know your stuff as a coach, but if you could just lose the arrogance I'm sure you'd get a lot more business and people would be more open to what you have to say.

Talking of business, I was going to buy a power tap off of you, but now I seriously doubt I will after your outburst.

kant314 said:

I've been lurking on these formum for quite a while and I've got a lot of useful insights from so many subjects discussed here.I've been quite happy to browse away without needing to post, but Ric's response to Timan has really upset me.

All I can say is Ric: you've got issues, man!

You really need to look at why you have to fly off the handle and call people 'scum'.
It's pretty infantile, if you ask me.
Ok, you might not agree with Timan for the drugs, but you've gone way over the top in name calling and getting all bent out of shape.
I have to say that I find TiMan's posts very informative.

I often find your posts, Ric, quite informative.However, I often cringe reading your posts.
You obviously know your stuff as a coach, but if you could just lose the arrogance I'm sure you'd get a lot more business and people would be more open to what you have to say.

Talking of business, I was going to buy a power tap off of you, but now I seriously doubt I will after your outburst.

I'd rather give my business to someone who shows some integrity, and is willing to say that doping for ANY reason is wrong.

Maybe he is loud and says what he thinks, but you know where he stands for sure.

Yes, i have issues. Issues, with people who are continuing to ruin or have ruined our great sport. When the sponsors pull the plug and there's no racing left (and sponsors are leaving the sport) then perhaps you can think on and wonder why the sport is dead (don't just think the doping and sponsorship affects only pro level sport).

I see nothing wrong with wanting a zero tolerance policy on (ex) dopers in the sport. people have been given chance after chance to clear the situation up, and nothing has changed. We had Festinagate, Oil for Drugs, Operation Puerto, Landis, and now this years debacle. Countless small incidences in between; Hamilton and his twin chimera, and a myriad of incidences prior to Festina 98. Tommy Simpson died 40 years ago, and we had ten (?) or so Dutch riders die in the early '90s.

Then you've got timan, coming on here telling everyone about his doping, and how to do it correctly (rather than incorrectly). sorry, what medical training does he have? He's not really admitted too much. we don't know his name, and he still thinks that good riders can learn correct doping from him. Now, if he came on here and said: "look at the mess i made, lets try and talk you out of doping" he'd be a lot less scum. He's had no sanctions, he still races, and he coaches. That's not much incentive to not dope - it's saying that crime does pay.

Doping is wrong. I feel strongly about it. I'm sorry if that upsets you.

Ric

kant314 said:

I've been lurking on these formum for quite a while and I've got a lot of useful insights from so many subjects discussed here.I've been quite happy to browse away without needing to post, but Ric's response to Timan has really upset me.

All I can say is Ric: you've got issues, man!

You really need to look at why you have to fly off the handle and call people 'scum'.
It's pretty infantile, if you ask me.
Ok, you might not agree with Timan for the drugs, but you've gone way over the top in name calling and getting all bent out of shape.
I have to say that I find TiMan's posts very informative.

I often find your posts, Ric, quite informative.However, I often cringe reading your posts.
You obviously know your stuff as a coach, but if you could just lose the arrogance I'm sure you'd get a lot more business and people would be more open to what you have to say.

Talking of business, I was going to buy a power tap off of you, but now I seriously doubt I will after your outburst.

PSUcycling said:

I'd rather give my business to someone who shows some integrity, and is willing to say that doping for ANY reason is wrong.

Maybe he is loud and says what he thinks, but you know where he stands for sure.

Thank you.

Ric

FWIW i think this forum is richer in perspective for having both ric and ti man as it would be richer still if we had Ferrari and Cecchini.
For the people who know the difference between right and wrong reading about methods on both sides of the line is probably more insightful than damaging.

For better or worse the likes of Riis demonstrate that a history of doping doesnt necessarily preclude a person from earning respect as an excellent motivator/coach not to mention instigator of what looks like a tight anti doping regime.

PSUcycling said:

I'd rather give my business to someone who shows some integrity, and is willing to say that doping for ANY reason is wrong.

Maybe he is loud and says what he thinks, but you know where he stands for sure.

Ditto. If I ever contracted a coach, someone with integrity like Ric would get my dollar (pound). Integrity still counts for something in my book.

Maybe while you were doing all the book learning he was training and racing cat 1 I wouldn't call him a sham for the calibration mistake. Timan's convictions on doping might not measure up but he is alot more approachable than you are.

ric_stern/RST said:

You're not even a good coach. Anyone with half a brain and more than 5-minutes experience with a power meter could tell you that the cranks were wrong. You made the video to showcase how brilliant you are as a coach. You're a sham, a doper and someone who can't even calibrate or realise their SRMs are wrong. Pretty useless all round.

Ric