Cycling can be dangerous

Tom Crispin said:

I don't know how the London Frewheel organisers could do a better job
in discouraging cycling.

"Cycling on the highway can be a dangerous activity"

Agree with that, too many fumes.

Quoted message said:

"all riders take part at their own risk"

Of course, I am the person most responsible for my own
actions.

Quoted message said:

"participants in the ride take part entirely at their own risk"

Ditto

Quoted message said:

"Cycling can be strenuous"

Running a marathon is strenuous, walking to the shops is
not. FreeWheel is hardly le TdF

Quoted message said:

"riders must be in good health"

Well I am hardly likely to get on a bike ten minutes after
a dual heat bypass.

Quoted message said:

"All riders must be reasonably fit"

So they are not doing their best to encourage the unfit to
exercise.

Quoted message said:

"All riders are advised to wear a cycle helmet"

It will be hot, very hot, we want you to sweat as much as
possible.

Quoted message said:

"Riders should also carry suitable means of identification"

Is my donor card OK?

Quoted message said:

"organisers and managers of the ride reserve the right to remove
bikes"

We will reserve the right to cause criminal damage to your
property, even if your bike is legally stored there.

Quoted message said:

DISCLAIMER: This is selective quoting to make a point. The full text
can be read here.

www.londonfreewheel.com/about/termsandconditions.asp

Tom Crispin said:

I don't know how the London Frewheel organisers could do a better job

"London is buzzing today with the news that, for one
remarkable day, many of the capital's roads will be
completely traffic-free and open only to cyclists"

So some of London's roads will be completely traffic free,
does this means the cyclist have to sit around and look at
the roads. If they are traffic free then you can't cycle
on them.

Tom Crispin said:

I don't know how the London Frewheel organisers could do a better job
in discouraging cycling.

[scary disclaimers snipped]

Definitely no naked donkeys in that organisation. It does strike me as
a little excessive for a 9 mile loop on (motorized-) traffic-free roads:
welcome to LegalWorld.

Looking at the safety guidelines (linked from that page) it seems like
the audience they're pitching at is someone with absolutely no on-road
cycling[*] experience at all. "slower–paced cyclists stay to the left.
Faster cyclists pass on the right" - who'da thunk?

-dan

On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 22:34:45 GMT someone who may be Martin Dann
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"organisers and managers of the ride reserve the right to remove
bikes"

We will reserve the right to cause criminal damage to your
property, even if your bike is legally stored there.

This event claims to be trying to encourage people to discover the
joys of cycling. Quite how threatening to cause criminal damage on
the whim of some official fits in with this I have no idea.

I have asked them if they can enlighten me. No doubt any response
will be some corporate [censored].

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

David Hansen <[email hidden]>typed

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 22:34:45 GMT someone who may be Martin Dann
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"organisers and managers of the ride reserve the right to remove
bikes"

We will reserve the right to cause criminal damage to your
property, even if your bike is legally stored there.

Quoted message said:

This event claims to be trying to encourage people to discover the
joys of cycling. Quite how threatening to cause criminal damage on
the whim of some official fits in with this I have no idea.

Quoted message said:

I have asked them if they can enlighten me. No doubt any response
will be some corporate [censored].

It really *will* encourage cycling, won't it?

Registration is essential apparently. To register, you provide all your
personal details, including date of birth (to 'prove' you are over 18)
over an unencrypted open connection.

My name and address and phone number are openly available anyway. I was
18 over three decades ago so I was 'creative' with my date of birth.

I was well-impressed with puerile website; it was so puerile that it
deterred my partner from registering at all.

Encouraging? Yeah right...

--
Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden]
Edgware.

Helen Deborah Vecht said:

It really *will* encourage cycling, won't it?

Registration is essential apparently. To register, you provide all your
personal details, including date of birth (to 'prove' you are over 18)
over an unencrypted open connection.

My name and address and phone number are openly available anyway. I was
18 over three decades ago so I was 'creative' with my date of birth.

I was well-impressed with puerile website; it was so puerile that it
deterred my partner from registering at all.

Encouraging? Yeah right...

I registered well over a month ago and have heard nothing so its not
clear what registering actually does as opposed to what it claims to do.

I have also written suggesting they have a go at the Train Operating
Companies - one of the departure points is next to Finsbury Park Station
but you can be reasonably sure with an event like this that the ToCs
will introduce London to Brightonesque style restrictions (and they
certainly prevent us going there by train with our tandems). The
response I have had was the same as with registration.

Tony

On Thu, 2 Aug 2007 10:02:29 +0100 someone who may be Helen Deborah
Vecht <[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Registration is essential apparently. To register, you provide all your
personal details, including date of birth (to 'prove' you are over 18)
over an unencrypted open connection.

Ah, another organisation encouraging "identity theft".

I was recently asked for my date of birth by an organisation that I
was volunteering to help. I told them it is none of their dammed
business and they have still accepted me as a volunteer.

I am becoming more Victor Meldrew like as I get older. Yesterday an
official, someone I pay for, was rude enough to send me a Microshit
Word document as the "answer" to a request for information I had
made.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

David Hansen said:

On Thu, 2 Aug 2007 10:02:29 +0100 someone who may be Helen Deborah
Vecht <[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Registration is essential apparently. To register, you provide all your
personal details, including date of birth (to 'prove' you are over 18)
over an unencrypted open connection.

Ah, another organisation encouraging "identity theft".

I was recently asked for my date of birth by an organisation that I
was volunteering to help. I told them it is none of their dammed
business and they have still accepted me as a volunteer.

I am currently applying for jobs ( 'gis a job?) and one form from a
public body wanted my NI no...? They didn't get it. What worries me
more is that more people keep asking for this sort of information, yet
more people also use it as "security" questions. As i often argue:-

My DoB is in the public domain
My name is in the public domain
My address is in the public domain
My postcode is in the public domain

How can any of those be "security" questions?

On Thu, 02 Aug 2007 11:01:56 +0100 someone who may be marc
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

What worries me
more is that more people keep asking for this sort of information, yet
more people also use it as "security" questions. As i often argue:-

My DoB is in the public domain
My name is in the public domain
My address is in the public domain
My postcode is in the public domain

How can any of those be "security" questions?

They allow the organisations concerned to tick a box and thus
protect their backsides from possible legal action. Such
organisations don't give two hoots about your security, they are
only interested in theirs.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On Aug 2, 10:02 am, Helen Deborah Vecht <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Registration is essential apparently.

Indeed. And the website also says:

"It's free and anyone can be part of it - so sign up now."

I don't understand why there is a requirement to 'sign up' to ride on
a public road.

Quoted message said:

Indeed. And the website also says:

"It's free and anyone can be part of it - so sign up now."

I don't understand why there is a requirement to 'sign up' to ride on
a public road.

I suspect it's so they can say "we've got XX people coming".

PhilD

--
<><

marc said:

I am currently applying for jobs ( 'gis a job?) and one form from a public
body wanted my NI no...? They didn't get it. What worries me more is that
more people keep asking for this sort of information, yet more people also
use it as "security" questions. As i often argue:-
My DoB is in the public domain
My name is in the public domain
My address is in the public domain
My postcode is in the public domain
How can any of those be "security" questions?

I'd think it's a fairly simple task, to get the the answer to usual
"mother's maiden name" security question too.
--
Chris Johns

Quoted message said:

On Aug 2, 10:02 am, Helen Deborah Vecht <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Registration is essential apparently.

Indeed. And the website also says:
"It's free and anyone can be part of it - so sign up now."

I don't understand why there is a requirement to 'sign up' to ride on
a public road.

Quite.

The mayor of Bogota just closes a raft of roads to motor vehicles -
every week - and people ride on them, or not, as they please. Why do
we have to make everything so complicated?

Colin McKenzie

--
No-one has ever proved that cycle helmets make cycling any safer at
the population level, and anyway cycling is about as safe per mile as
walking.
Make an informed choice - visit www.cyclehelmets.org.

Colin McKenzie said:

Quoted message said:

On Aug 2, 10:02 am, Helen Deborah Vecht <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Registration is essential apparently.

Indeed. And the website also says:
"It's free and anyone can be part of it - so sign up now."

I don't understand why there is a requirement to 'sign up' to ride on
a public road.

Quite.

The mayor of Bogota just closes a raft of roads to motor vehicles -
every week - and people ride on them, or not, as they please. Why do
we have to make everything so complicated?

Colin McKenzie

My email to them:

====================
I would like my children's cycling club to register for the Hovis
Freewheel event, but there doesn't seem to be any means for
registering such a group. Could you please send registration details?

Thanks,

Tom Crispin
www.johnballcycling.org.uk
====================

And their reply:

====================
Tom

I'm afraid that we are not registering groups. 1 adult can register
with up to 4 under 16's but no more than that. You would need to get
enough adults to register on behalf of the children.

Regards
Dáire

The Hovis London Freewheel - be part of an extraordinary event! Click
www.londonfreewheel.com to find out more.
====================

Now, I am sure that I would have an adult child ratio of at least 1:2
for the ride, but why the devil can't they accept a group
registration. Do they really expect me to fill in their registration
form 20 times to take 20 parents and 40 children to ride a there and
back again route!?

What would be really good is the London Marathon route by bike, but
returning to Blackheath along the Old Kent Road.

On Thu, 02 Aug 2007 09:14:20 +0100 someone who may be David Hansen
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

This event claims to be trying to encourage people to discover the
joys of cycling. Quite how threatening to cause criminal damage on
the whim of some official fits in with this I have no idea.

I have asked them if they can enlighten me. No doubt any response
will be some corporate [censored].

Lo and behold, their reply was as I expected. In particular it
doesn't address my question of how this threat of criminal damage
encourages people to discover the joy of cycling.

"There will be additional 8,000 cycle parking spaces at St James's
Park on the day of the Hovis London Freewheel. If a bike chained
elsewhere causes an obstruction or hazard to other participants,
organisers will remove it for the safety of all participants. Should
a bike be removed, it will be reunited with its owner at the bike
park later."

I have asked them whether they can now answer my point. Time will
tell whether they are willing or able to do so.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

David Hansen said:

I have asked them whether they can now answer my point. Time will
tell whether they are willing or able to do so.

Maybe that's the wrong tack.

Recall the "Get active in Norfolk" website we got changed within 24
hours from:

"We live in a County where there is little industrial base and many
people earn their living sitting down: to sit down again to exercise
might not be the best option for those who already suffer with a
rounded upper back and forward head position. Neck and back aches
could worsen."

To:

http://www.activenorfolk.org/page.asp?section=00010001000300060005&itemTitle=Cycling

We could try to re-write The Freewheel's terms and conditions.

Most of these conditions are designed for your safety and the safety
of other riders. Please read them carefully to avoid problems later.

1. All riders are requested to complete the registration form.

2. The ride is designed entirely for human powered machines.

3. Riders under 14 are welcome.

4. Cycling is a safe and healthy activity which, mile for mile,
is every bit as saft as walking.

5 If you crash it's not our fault unless we pushed you.

6. Cyclists who have a concern about their health should use
their common sense.

7. If you have any concern over your fitness you could try
cycling for several weeks before the event, gradually building up the
distance until you can manage 10 miles comfortably.

8. You are free to wear a helmet if you like.

9. We may publish embarassing photos of you on the Internet.

10. Only the police have the authority to remove bicycles which
are not parked in the official cycle parks. Others may remove your
bike from the official cycle park, but that's not our fault: you are
free to lock you bike where you like.

marc <[email hidden]>typed

Quoted message said:

David Hansen said:

On Thu, 2 Aug 2007 10:02:29 +0100 someone who may be Helen Deborah
Vecht <[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Registration is essential apparently. To register, you provide all your
personal details, including date of birth (to 'prove' you are over 18)
over an unencrypted open connection.

Ah, another organisation encouraging "identity theft".

I was recently asked for my date of birth by an organisation that I
was volunteering to help. I told them it is none of their dammed
business and they have still accepted me as a volunteer.

Quoted message said:

I am currently applying for jobs ( 'gis a job?) and one form from a
public body wanted my NI no...? They didn't get it. What worries me
more is that more people keep asking for this sort of information, yet
more people also use it as "security" questions. As i often argue:-

Quoted message said:

My DoB is in the public domain
My name is in the public domain
My address is in the public domain
My postcode is in the public domain

Quoted message said:

How can any of those be "security" questions?

I think these last three would give *you* some security for a distant
purchase, in that it should be delivered personally to you.

--
Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden]
Edgware.

Helen Deborah Vecht said:

marc <[email hidden]>typed

Quoted message said:

David Hansen said:

On Thu, 2 Aug 2007 10:02:29 +0100 someone who may be Helen Deborah
Vecht <[email hidden]> wrote this:-

> Registration is essential apparently. To register, you provide all your
> personal details, including date of birth (to 'prove' you are over 18)
> over an unencrypted open connection.
Ah, another organisation encouraging "identity theft".

I was recently asked for my date of birth by an organisation that I
was volunteering to help. I told them it is none of their dammed
business and they have still accepted me as a volunteer.

Quoted message said:

I am currently applying for jobs ( 'gis a job?) and one form from a
public body wanted my NI no...? They didn't get it. What worries me
more is that more people keep asking for this sort of information, yet
more people also use it as "security" questions. As i often argue:-

Quoted message said:

My DoB is in the public domain
My name is in the public domain
My address is in the public domain
My postcode is in the public domain

Quoted message said:

How can any of those be "security" questions?

I think these last three would give *you* some security for a distant
purchase, in that it should be delivered personally to you.

Unless the person supplying the information works for the Royal Mail...

On Thu, 02 Aug 2007 16:02:04 +0100 someone who may be Tom Crispin
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Now, I am sure that I would have an adult child ratio of at least 1:2
for the ride, but why the devil can't they accept a group
registration.

ISTM that they don't understand how to organise such events.

Quoted message said:

Do they really expect me to fill in their registration
form 20 times to take 20 parents and 40 children to ride a there and
back again route!?

Presumably they expect precisely this. It shows their incompetence.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54