Repetitive circular rides question

Peter Fox said:

Does anyone here do the same circular (or two way) ride over and over again?
If so, do you find there is one way round which in general is faster then the other?
If so, what do you think causes this?

--
Peter Fox
Beer, dancing, cycling and lots more atwww.eminent.demon.co.uk

Yes, Richmond Park ... not quite "over and over again", but fairly
often. I have a preferred way around, the climbs are longer and you
haven't got the clockwise one by Robin Hood Gate 😉

Peter Fox said:

Does anyone here do the same circular (or two way) ride over and over
again?
If so, do you find there is one way round which in general is faster
then the other?
If so, what do you think causes this?

I don't. But I would have thought that a circular on-road route going
anti-clockwise would be faster that one going clockwise purely because a
succession of left turns would be faster than a succession of right turns.

YMMV etc.

Andrew

Andrew May said:

Peter Fox said:

Does anyone here do the same circular (or two way) ride over and over
again?
If so, do you find there is one way round which in general is faster
then the other?
If so, what do you think causes this?

I don't. But I would have thought that a circular on-road route going
anti-clockwise would be faster that one going clockwise purely because a
succession of left turns would be faster than a succession of right turns.

I used to do a route and I think it was quicker clockwise although I
think I only did it the other way once. Going clockwise there was one
huge long hill at the start but then it was flat or downhill the rest
of the way (and wider & quieter roads) - just my preference.

peter

"Peter Fox" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Does anyone here do the same circular (or two way) ride over and over
again?
If so, do you find there is one way round which in general is faster then
the other?
If so, what do you think causes this?

I have a 22 mile road loop in Mid-Wales. I think one way round is faster
because it's fairly flat for the first 3 miles and I can warm up. Going the
other way I am presented with 2 hills in the first 2 miles and I find myself
puffing extra hard on them (eben going fairly slowly) compared with similar
hills half way through the ride.

John

Peter Fox said:

If so, do you find there is one way round which in general is faster
then the other?
If so, what do you think causes this?

http://cmsweb1.loudoun.k12.va.us/50970820161111/lib/50970820161111/escher_stairs_2.jpg

Tony

Andrew May said:

Peter Fox said:

Does anyone here do the same circular (or two way) ride over and over
again?
If so, do you find there is one way round which in general is faster
then the other?
If so, what do you think causes this?

I don't. But I would have thought that a circular on-road route going
anti-clockwise would be faster that one going clockwise purely because a
succession of left turns would be faster than a succession of right turns.

Also anti-clockwise will usually be shorter (about 10m or so).

However I think the main differences will be the hills,
traffic lights, and the psychology of the rider.

Martin Dann <[email hidden]> wrote in news:6h5vi.5831$ka7.2569
@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net:

Quoted message said:

Also anti-clockwise will usually be shorter (about 10m or so).

However I think the main differences will be the hills,
traffic lights, and the psychology of the rider.

FWIW, I work from home and "pseudo-commute" a 3.5 mile circular route
before and after work. The highest point is about 200ft higher than the
lowest point and it's about a mile of continuous climb, a mile of continous
descent, and a couple of flat-ish bits joining them. One of the inclined
bits is littered with full-width speed humps, the other is not. So the
quick way round is to take the speed-hump section uphill and the hump-free
section downhill. That way I can get up to about 35mph on the descent while
the other way around I need to brake for every speed hump because hitting
the humps at more than about 10mph is likely to put one or both wheels out
of true (my LBS wheel-truing service has seen a lot of me in the last few
months 🙁 )

Generalising a bit, I suspect that whichever direction requires the most
braking will be the slowest. For example, (speed humps aside) if you're
turning into a minor road in one direction you will have the right of way
and can take the junction fairly quickly, while you will need to give way
and probably will take the junction more slowly when riding the other way
around.

--
Geoff

in message <[email hidden]>, Peter Fox

(') said:

Does anyone here do the same circular (or two way) ride over and over
again? If so, do you find there is one way round which in general is
faster then the other? If so, what do you think causes this?

Commuting.

Faster in the morning.

Legs don't feel fast after a long day's work. Also I think my digs may be
at slightly greater elevation than my workplace, but I don't believe the
difference is significant and it's pretty hilly anyway.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Morning had broken. I found a rather battered tube of Araldite
resin in the bottom of the toolbag.

Geoff Lane said:

(my LBS wheel-truing service has seen a lot of me in the last few
months 🙁 )

Find an LBS that know how to true and tension a wheel properly then. Or
get the Bicycle Wheel by Jobst Brandt and learn how to do it properly
yourself. The book will pay for itself in one or two saved visits to
the LBS for a poor job.

Tony

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Peter Fox

(') said:

Does anyone here do the same circular (or two way) ride over and over
again? If so, do you find there is one way round which in general is
faster then the other? If so, what do you think causes this?

Commuting.

Faster in the morning.

Legs don't feel fast after a long day's work. Also I think my digs may be
at slightly greater elevation than my workplace, but I don't believe the
difference is significant and it's pretty hilly anyway.

Used to be the other way round for me. Take it gently in the morning
and I don't get too hot and sweaty and hence don't need to shower when
I got to work. Fast on the way home to a cold beer and hot shower.

Tony Raven <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

(my LBS wheel-truing service has seen a lot of me in the last few
months 🙁 )

Find an LBS that know how to true and tension a wheel properly then. Or
get the Bicycle Wheel by Jobst Brandt and learn how to do it properly
yourself. The book will pay for itself in one or two saved visits to
the LBS for a poor job.

Er... it's more a combination of cheap wheels and a considerably overweight
rider than lack of skill at my LBS. "A lot" in this case is twice for the
rear and once for the front - which is more than I've needed in the
preceeding four decades - and each time the throw has only been a
millimetre or two. When he's done, the wheel runs true and all the spokes
on each side ring with the same pitch. I don't know enough about the
subject to say too much about spoke tension, but they ring at a pitch that
seems reasonable to me.

That said, I've got to learn how to sort out my own wheels because I'm
riding further afield at weekends and I don't fancy gingerly riding home
fifteen, twenty, or more miles with a buckled wheel!

--
Geoff

Peter Fox said:

Does anyone here do the same circular (or two way) ride over and over
again? If so, do you find there is one way round which in general is
faster then the other? If so, what do you think causes this?

Sometimes part of the route is more exposed to the wind, so you can win
a bit if you get the tailwind on that bit and the headwind where it's
more sheltered.

Geoff Lane said:

Er... it's more a combination of cheap wheels and a considerably overweight
rider than lack of skill at my LBS.

I beg to differ - its a lack of skill at your LBS. I doubt you weigh
more than two of us on our tandem and I doubt your riding skill is less
- tandems have no option but to plough through stuff because you cannot
lift or unweight the wheels to help them over objects. Haven't touched
our tandem wheels since I built them many years ago.

Quoted message said:

When he's done, the wheel runs true and all the spokes
on each side ring with the same pitch. I don't know enough about the
subject to say too much about spoke tension, but they ring at a pitch that
seems reasonable to me.

Pitch tells you little more than the evenness of the tension. Unless
you have a properly built reference wheel you have no idea what the
pitch is that is associated with optimum tension.

Quoted message said:

That said, I've got to learn how to sort out my own wheels because I'm
riding further afield at weekends and I don't fancy gingerly riding home
fifteen, twenty, or more miles with a buckled wheel!

Good idea and the big advantage being you are very unlikely to get a
buckled wheel if they are built properly unless they are damaged in an
accident.

Tony

in message <[email hidden]>, Tony Raven

(') said:

Pitch tells you little more than the evenness of the tension. Unless
you have a properly built reference wheel you have no idea what the
pitch is that is associated with optimum tension.

I have a friend who is the owner of my local bike shop, and builds wheels;
and another friend who is a composer (of music). The first friend has
built for the second friend a bicycle wheel with the hub off centre, so
that the spokes (and tensions) are quite different round the wheel.

When you first look at the thing you know it's wrong, but you don't
immediately realise what is wrong with it. I'm told (by the first friend)
that calculating the spoke lengths was quite interesting.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; Diplomacy, American: see Intelligence, Military

"Peter Fox" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Does anyone here do the same circular (or two way) ride over and over
again?
If so, do you find there is one way round which in general is faster then
the other?
If so, what do you think causes this?

--
Peter Fox
Beer, dancing, cycling and lots more at www.eminent.demon.co.uk

For me the route back from work is different than the route to work. The
reason for this is to keep the uphill sections fairly short rather than
having long draggy hills. It is about 5-10 minutes faster getting back from
work, partly because the road a mile away from the office is around 80m
lower than the office.

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Tony Raven

(') said:

Pitch tells you little more than the evenness of the tension. Unless
you have a properly built reference wheel you have no idea what the
pitch is that is associated with optimum tension.

I have a friend who is the owner of my local bike shop, and builds wheels;
and another friend who is a composer (of music). The first friend has
built for the second friend a bicycle wheel with the hub off centre, so
that the spokes (and tensions) are quite different round the wheel.

WHY?

Simon Brooke said:

I have a friend who is the owner of my local bike shop, and builds wheels;
and another friend who is a composer (of music). The first friend has
built for the second friend a bicycle wheel with the hub off centre, so
that the spokes (and tensions) are quite different round the wheel.

When you first look at the thing you know it's wrong, but you don't
immediately realise what is wrong with it. I'm told (by the first friend)
that calculating the spoke lengths was quite interesting.

Does it play "Flower of Scotland" as you ride along with a cigarette
card in the spokes?

Tony

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I have a friend who is the owner of my local bike shop, and builds
wheels; and another friend who is a composer (of music). The first
friend has built for the second friend a bicycle wheel with the hub
off centre, so that the spokes (and tensions) are quite different
round the wheel.

WHY?

1. You can swap it for the front wheel on a friends bike, half way through
a really long audax. It'll be miles before their tired mind works out
what's gone wrong.

2. The tinking of pannier strap on spokes pleased the composer, but he
wanted something more musical. The different spoke tensions produce a
pleasing variety of notes.

3. Some people like being seasick.

4. After being bored stiff listening to the boasts of the bike shop owner
about his wheel building prowess, he got revenge by ordering an impossible
wheel.

5. The composer misunderstood what was meant by 'dishing'.

--
Mark T
Preserve Wildlife - Pickle a Squirrel Today

"Peter Fox" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Does anyone here do the same circular (or two way) ride over and over
again?
If so, do you find there is one way round which in general is faster then
the other?
If so, what do you think causes this?

--
Peter Fox
Beer, dancing, cycling and lots more at www.eminent.demon.co.uk

I have noticed it is much easier to swim from the shallow end of the
Commonwealth Pool in Edinburgh to the deep end than the other way. It is,
of course, downhill to the deep end.