OT: Can We Surrender?

[email hidden] (Abhijit Bhattacharya) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (Edward Dolan) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

The US survival as a nation and indeed the survival of civilization itself, could be at stake if
the terrorists get their hands on nuclear weapons.

So what does Iraq have to do with any of this?

Regards,

Abhijit

It is not possible to wage a war on terrorists and leave them with a major haven and support like
Iraq. Terrorists cannot operate in a vacuum. They need established nation states or at the least
failed states (like Afghanistan) to harbor and support them. Iraq is central to the War on
Terrorism.

Iraq was intent on developing nuclear weapons. The world can trust Israel with nuclear weapons; the
world cannot trust Iraq with nuclear weapons. Iran and Syria are two other rogue states in the
region which cannot be trusted with nuclear weapons either, and something will have to be done
about them sooner or later. Do you trust the liberal Dems to ever get any of this right? Or, God
help us, the UN?

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[email hidden] (Abhijit Bhattacharya) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (Edward Dolan) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

The US government also claimed after the invasion of Kuwait that Iraq was massing troops on
the Saudi border. This has subsequently been shown to be as much a lie [1] as the story about
premature Kuwaiti babies being removed from hospital incubators was.

Who gives a tinker's damn about this bit of ancient history.

The people who believe that since the US was lying about what was going on in Iraq then, there is
a possibility that the US is lying about what's going on in Iraq today. You seem to have missed
the irony.

Regards,

Abhijit

Every little bit of information that gets waylaid or misrepresented or is just plain mistaken gets
interpreted by Mr. Sherman as "lies". No one takes his "facts" seriously. With him it is all
ideology and nothing but ideology. He hates America and believes the government is lying all the
time about everything. He is half crazy with hatred of America. I predict that someday he is going
to go over to the other side, once he can find the other side. To look for irony in anything
Mr. Sherman says is a fool's errand. He is dead serious all the time - except when he is being just
plain silly.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Mark Leuck said:

... If I recall these terrorists seemed to have found a target full of Americans on 9/11/2003
before we were in Afghanistan and Iraq

We? Do all right-wing hawks have problems with indefinite pronouns, or are they insensitive to the
fact than Usenet Newsgroups are not limited to those residing in the United States of America?

This is Mr. Sherman, "the internationalist" speaking, who is always curring favor with nations like
France and non-nations like the Palestinians. He also likes to curry favor with others on this
newsgroup who happen not to be Americans, but are invariably liberals. He fancies himself the nanny
of this newsgroup.

It is best just to ignore him and his silly asides (some folks never recover from their college
educations - they probably shouldn't have gone to college in the first place as they would have been
far happier in non-intellectual pursuits) but if you can't do that, then just call him an idiot and
be done with it. He is not worth waisting your time on as I have discovered from long experience.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

Edward Dolan said:

Every little bit of information that gets waylaid or misrepresented or is just plain mistaken gets
interpreted by Mr. Sherman as "lies". No one takes his "facts" seriously. With him it is all
ideology and nothing but ideology. He hates America and believes the government is lying all the
time about everything. He is half crazy with hatred of America. I predict that someday he is going
to go over to the other side, once he can find the other side....

When the space alien invasion fleet lands, I am with them.

Long Live the Aliens!

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

"Rocketman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<WRiwb.287267$HS4.2589647@attbi_s01>... [...]

Quoted message said:

Many Americans are unable to admit that Bush's credibility is gone. The entire world knows that
Bush and his cabinet are liars, ...

Blah, blah, blah, ad nauseum.

I hope you don't mind Barry, but I am saving your rant so all my friends (not many) can see what a
true blue Bush hater is really like. We shall have many a good laugh over it I can assure you.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

Edward Dolan said:

This is Mr. Sherman, "the internationalist" speaking, who is always curring favor with nations
like France...

Arise children of the fatherland The day of glory has arrived Against us tyranny's Bloody standard
is raised Listen to the sound in the fields The howling of these fearsome soldiers They are coming
into our midst To cut the throats of your sons and consorts

To arms citizens Form your battalions March, march Let impure blood Water our furrows

What do they want this horde of slaves Of traitors and conspiratorial kings? For whom these vile
chains These long-prepared irons? Frenchmen, for us, ah! What outrage What methods must be taken? It
is us they dare plan To return to the old slavery!

What! These foreign cohorts! They would make laws in our courts! What! These mercenary phalanxes
Would cut down our warrior sons Good Lord! By chained hands Our brow would yield under the yoke The
vile despots would have themselves be The masters of destiny

Tremble, tyrants and traitors The shame of all good men Tremble! Your parricidal schemes Will
receive their just reward Against you we are all soldiers If they fall, our young heros France will
bear new ones Ready to join the fight against you

Frenchmen, as magnanimous warriors Bear or hold back your blows Spare these sad victims That they
regret taking up arms against us But not these bloody despots These accomplices of Bouillé All
these tigers who pitilessly Ripped out their mothers' wombs

We shall enter into the pit When our elders will no longer be there There we shall find their ashes
And the mark of their virtues We are much less jealous of surviving them Than of sharing their
coffins We shall have the sublime pride Of avenging or joining them

Drive on sacred patriotism Support our avenging arms Liberty, cherished liberty Join the struggle
with your defenders Under our flags, let victory Hurry to your manly tone So that in death your
enemies See your triumph and our glory!

Bravo Claude-Joseph Rouget de L'Isle!

Bravo Chirac!

Vive la France! Vive la France! Vive la France!

Tom Sherman - Vive la France!

(Edward Dolan) said:

What is an automatic translator?

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

An automatic translator is a web-based service (cf www.altavista.com) that allows one to type a
phrase in one language, push a button, and have it come out in another language.

It is instructional to translate the result back into English. The results can be interesting.
For example, I took a common childrens' bedtime prayer and translated it into German, back to
English, to Spanish, back to English, to French, back to English, to Japanese and one more time
back to English.

"Now I lay me down to sleep. I pray the Lord my soul to keep. If I should die before I wake, I pray
the Lord my soul to take."

became:

"In order I of times the beverage which is placed, to sleep. In order getlteman my mind to
maintain, you ask. If I make awake die directly before, in order him whom getlteman my mind
requires, to take."

As you can see, these are a real boon to international understanding, and a very convenient
substitute for a classical education.

"William Higley, Sr." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I thank you for response. You and I obviously don't agree on several items and yet we can choose
not to verbally abuse one another. I also agree with you about several things. I see terrorism as
something that needs to be dealt with in a forceful manner. What concerns me is how we define
terrorists, how we stop them, and how do we minimize the conditions that creates terrorists.

[...]

William, I can see that you are a man of the middle and I have no quarrel with you at all. As a
matter of fact we are not far apart in our thinking. I could have a discussion with you and who
knows, one or the other of us might actually trim our opinions slightly as a result.

But it is not my purpose here to persuade others to my viewpoint. If that is what I was about I
would have to adopt completely different tactics. As you have so clearly seen, I am in a mad dog
attack mode and my only purpose is to refute and confound these damnable liberals who are extreme
leftists and are nothing but wacko nut screwballs. Look at any of Barry's posts. He is even more
idiotic than Mr. Sherman. But Barry is not as dangerous as Mr. Sherman because Barry is just plain
stupid. Mr. Sherman is also stupid, but his stupidity is that of a fox - and therefore dangerous. He
has the capacity to actually persuade others to his views whereas Barry can only persuade others to
his views provided they are as dumb as he is, in other words, a very small minority.

William, if you and I were to meet in "real life" we would get along great. You are a normal
reasonable human being. I can tell that much from reading your post. But Mr. Sherman , Barry and
other liberal extremists are not normal reasonable human beings and I would not get along with any
of them at all. On this newsgroup I only have time and energy enough for combat duty with them, whom
I regard as the enemy.

Bottom line though, I trust our present leadership (Bush et al) to do the right thing. They are
all extremely intelligent men and of high moral character. So far they have been 100% correct as
far as I am concerned in everything they have done with respect to the War on Terrorism (of which
Iraq is central).

Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

(Edward Dolan) said:

You align yourself with murderers and tyrants. You, along with that other idiot Barry (Rocketman),
are beyond the pale, and are nothing but treasonous Americans at best.

Ah, Ed. You are such an anachronism.

We haven't had anything resembling a "pale" for a good many years now.

I trust you mean "pale" in the sense of the word's true etymology. That's a concept that has sadly
died, a long time ago.

Edward Dolan said:

[Snipped]

[YAWN]

Ho ho hum hum humbug

"Rocketman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<wglwb.216298$mZ5.1641953@attbi_s54>...

Barry, your post is way too long (as was my response to your previous post) and no one but no one is
reading this [censored] except you and me. I have already told you in a previous post that I am no longer
going to reply to your every idiotic statement, but occasionally when you say something that strikes
my fancy, then I will respond to that and that only.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

US casualties in the War on Terrorism (of which Iraq is central) have been minimal.

I'll be sure to tell my aunt what you said if my 20-year-old cousin is killed in Iraq. I'm sure
she'll see things your way. I have friends and family fighting and dying in Iraq right now. You
obviously do not.

You are a sentimentalist and you have no perspective on war. To personalize war to the level of an
individual's suffering is the mark of a scoundrel. We are talking about the movements of nations in
history here. Since you, along with that other idiot Mr. Sherman, are fascinated by "facts", I
suggest you look up the causalities of other wars, most especially WW I to get some perspective
about what I mean by "minimal".

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Why do all liberals engage in selective editing? I attribute it to their very weak arguments.
They try to gain every advantage no matter how disreputable the method.

Why do all fanatical right wing neocon sympathizers rely upon ad hominem, invective and avoidance
of direct challenges to avoid producing facts or reasons for their wild, paranoid assertions? Why
do they keep making fools of themselves in public? Why do they repeat lies over and over until
they believe them to be true?

You are describing yourself perfectly. I will never get into arguing "facts" with liberals because
they have their set of facts and we conservatives have our set of facts. And never the twain shall
meet apparently. This is all about opinion, not facts.

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Osama is headed for the dust bin of history like all the other Mahdi that periodically arise
from the Muslim scum.

I'm sure there's nothing racist about that statement, right Ed? You sure you don't want to
rephrase that?

Not at all, every society has its scum, including ours. Why don't you tell us just exactly what
you think of the Muslim terrorists, morally and every other which way also. Inquiring minds
want to know.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It is [censored] like you who run this country into the ground. You are nothing but a treasonous
liberal.

Your pompous arrogance and unrelenting hubris prevents you from realizing that you are addressing
a fellow American, who loves his country. When you call me treasonous, my blood boils. Right now,
I'm looking up at a life-sized replica of the Declaration of Independence which hangs over my
desk, in a place of highest reverence. I see the distinctive signatures of the great and wise men
of integrity and character who signed that great document. Then I think of you, a gutless
warmongering blowhard, cowering behind a computer, spewing vitriol, and presuming to represent my
country's best interests. You disgust me to the core. You have no respect for yourself, for your
fellow Americans, nor for the billions of peace-loving people outside the US, to which we should
extend peace and prosperity, not the fiery hell of unprovoked unilateral war. Your paranoid
obsessions have filled you with xenophobic hatred. You have no sympathy - only the bloodlust that
fills your hollow soul. I pity you, and hope never to read your stinking, festering words of hate
ever again.

B

I am not making that charge lightly. You liberal Dems are not supporting this country in its war
against terrorism. You are undermining our war effort, same as you did in Vietnam and throughout the
Cold War. You are for cut and run. You are ever a man of the left and not an American at all in
spirit. Your homage to the Constitution and our founding fathers is strictly for the purpose of
destroying this country as it is now constituted. I really do regard you, most especially you
because of your thorough going liberal ideology, as a treasonous liberal [censored]. You and your ilk
will fall like the rotten apples that you are, the same way the Soviet Union fell like a rotten
apple. And the world will be well rid of you and your loathsome ideas.

Your attempt, like all liberals, to take the high ground morally is pathetic and bankrupt The
whole world has seen what liberal leftist regimes do once they get into power. You are despicable
beyond words.

By the way, I think you may have missed your true calling which was to be a preacher of hell fire
and damnation. But you would have to learn to confine your preaching to Sunday mornings and not
continuously and exhaustively. After all, the rest of us can't stand preachers for the most part.
They tend to be naive and out of touch with the realities almost 100% of the time.

Yours in everlasting enmity,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

Zippy the Pinhead <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

(Edward Dolan) said:

What is an automatic translator?

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

An automatic translator is a web-based service (cf www.altavista.com) that allows one to type a
phrase in one language, push a button, and have it come out in another language.

It is instructional to translate the result back into English. The results can be interesting. For
example, I took a common childrens' bedtime prayer and translated it into German, back to English,
to Spanish, back to English, to French, back to English, to Japanese and one more time back to
English.

"Now I lay me down to sleep. I pray the Lord my soul to keep. If I should die before I wake, I
pray the Lord my soul to take."

became:

"In order I of times the beverage which is placed, to sleep. In order getlteman my mind to
maintain, you ask. If I make awake die directly before, in order him whom getlteman my mind
requires, to take."

As you can see, these are a real boon to international understanding, and a very convenient
substitute for a classical education.

Thanks Zippy. I guess I will take a pass on the automatic translator as I am having enough problems
being understood in my native language of English. It was no doubt the translation to the Japanese
that really screwed things up. I suspect the automatic translator might work better with respect to
scientific documents than to any kind of literature which is always notoriously difficult to
translate well.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

Edward Dolan said:

Quoted message said:

<plonk>

And a plonk, plonk to you too - whatever the hell that means!

It means that Barry has killfiled you.

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

"Edward Dolan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Rocketman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<wglwb.216298$mZ5.1641953@attbi_s54>...

Quoted message said:

Barry, your post is way too long (as was my response to your previous post) and no one but no one
is reading this [censored] except you and me. I have already told you in a previous post that I am no
longer going to reply to your every idiotic statement, but occasionally when you say something
that strikes my fancy, then I will respond to that and that only.

Oh goody! Then you'll stop boring us with your half-witted responses?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

US casualties in the War on
Terrorism (of which Iraq is central) have been minimal.

I'll be sure to tell my aunt what you said if my 20-year-old cousin is killed in Iraq. I'm sure
she'll see things your way. I have friends and family fighting and dying in Iraq right now. You
obviously do not.

You are a sentimentalist and you have no perspective on war. To personalize war to the level of an
individual's suffering is the mark of a scoundrel. We are talking about the movements of nations
in history here. Since you, along with that other idiot Mr. Sherman, are fascinated by "facts", I
suggest you look up the causalities of other wars, most especially WW I to get some perspective
about what I mean by "minimal".

EdThink: Idiots are people who employ facts when arguing. EdThink: People who value human life are
scoundrels. EdThink: To be sentimental is to be worthy of contempt.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Why do all liberals engage in selective editing? I attribute it to their very weak arguments.
They try to gain every advantage no matter how disreputable the method.

Why do all fanatical right wing neocon sympathizers rely upon ad

hominem,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

invective and avoidance of direct challenges to avoid producing facts or reasons for their wild,
paranoid assertions? Why do they keep making

fools

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of themselves in public? Why do they repeat lies over and over until

they

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

believe them to be true?

You are describing yourself perfectly. I will never get into arguing "facts" with liberals because
they have their set of facts and we conservatives have our set of facts. And never the twain shall
meet apparently. This is all about opinion, not facts.

EdThink: Since he never employs facts, then all opinions must be facts, and vice versa.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It is [censored] like you who run this country into the ground. You are nothing but a treasonous
liberal.

Your pompous arrogance and unrelenting hubris prevents you from

realizing

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

that you are addressing a fellow American, who loves his country. When

you

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

call me treasonous, my blood boils. Right now, I'm looking up at a life-sized replica of the
Declaration of Independence which hangs over

my

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

desk, in a place of highest reverence. I see the distinctive signatures

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the great and wise men of integrity and character who signed that great document. Then I think
of you, a gutless warmongering blowhard, cowering behind a computer, spewing vitriol, and
presuming to represent my

country's

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

best interests. You disgust me to the core. You have no respect for yourself, for your fellow
Americans, nor for the billions of

peace-loving

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

people outside the US, to which we should extend peace and prosperity,

not

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the fiery hell of unprovoked unilateral war. Your paranoid obsessions

have

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

filled you with xenophobic hatred. You have no sympathy - only the

bloodlust

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

that fills your hollow soul. I pity you, and hope never to read your stinking, festering words
of hate ever again.

B

I am not making that charge lightly.

I'm sure! Ed Dolan always means what he says, folks! (Have you talked to your attorney about the
libel thing yet? No?)

Quoted message said:

You liberal Dems are not supporting this country in its war against terrorism.

That's right. I would never support any war that can't define its military objectives. Funny thing
is, I'm not alone in these beliefs. For one thing, an endless, boundless, multi-front foreign war
puts the Continental US "homeland" <cough> at grave risk from domestic attack. Did it ever occur to
you that maybe those terrorists are deliberately baiting Bush into a trap, where US forces are so
spread out that they can't retaliate quickly in the case of another, perhaps more sustained attack
on the US?

We could also talk about the enormous drain on our resources, the bloody uprisings, the dead US
troops, the propaganda, loss of public support (just like Viet Nam), the trashing of diplomatic
ties, the theopolitical minefield of the Middle East, and on and on and on. To summarize: There are
*many* reasons why *any* generalized war on terrorism is a fool's errand. Specific retaliation for
specific acts may, or may not be possible (if the perpetrators are still alive); but it is simply
impossible to wipe out all terrorism. The more terrorists you kill, the more will come after you.
They keep recruiting more! You can't stop them. Perhaps math isn't your strong suit. Maybe somebody
can draw you some pictures to explain it.

Quoted message said:

You are undermining our war effort, same as you did in Vietnam and throughout the Cold War. You
are for cut and run. You are ever a man of the left and not an American at all in spirit.

You're wrong, as always; but you couldn't be more vicious or offensive to
me. You will apologize to me personally.

Quoted message said:

Your homage to the Constitution and our founding fathers is strictly for the purpose of destroying
this country as it is now constituted.

LOL! You neocons don't play your cards very close to your chest, do you? You might as well come
right out and say that you are in favor of re-writing the Constitution. You just implied it very
strongly, as have many of your neocon ilk. BushCo's contempt for the Constitution, as written, is as
plain as day. They have made little secret of it. It really chafes your ass when somebody reminds
you that the Constitution is cherished highly by all freedom-loving Americans. You can't claim any
exclusive right to it. You can apologize to me now for your hateful assertions.

Quoted message said:

I really do regard you, most especially you because of your thorough going liberal ideology, as a
treasonous liberal [censored].

You wouldn't know treasonous if it walked up and bit you on the ass. Look it up in the dictionary.
Here's a free clue: Political dissent is not only legal in the US, it is one of the fundamental
freedoms upon which our country was founded. The founding fathers were very clear on this point, and
wrote about it extensively. By exercising my Constitutional rights to political dissent publicly,
I'm proving that they still exist. I am a hero and a lover of freedom, and you will apologize to me
if you are a real American.

Quoted message said:

You and your ilk will fall like the rotten apples that you are, the same way the Soviet Union fell
like a rotten apple. And the world will be well rid of you and your loathsome ideas.

What the hell are you babbling about? I'm openly espousing peaceful, diplomatic relations with
foreign countries based upon the teachings of Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha, Ghandi and other great men of
peace. Anybody who finds that to be loathsome is a very twisted and sick person, and needs help. The
Soviet Union was a failed experiment in economics. I had no part in it, and you have no right to
associate me with it. You will apologize now.

Quoted message said:

Your attempt, like all liberals, to take the high ground morally is pathetic and bankrupt The
whole world has seen what liberal leftist regimes do once they get into power. You are despicable
beyond words.

I'm not attempting to take moral high ground. I'm already on the moral high ground.

Quoted message said:

By the way, I think you may have missed your true calling which was to be a preacher of hell fire
and damnation. But you would have to learn to confine your preaching to Sunday mornings and not
continuously and exhaustively.

I can't help it if you have a short attention span.

Quoted message said:

After all, the rest of us can't stand preachers for the most part.

Then I guess reading the works of great philosophers of peace is out of the question.

Quoted message said:

They tend to be naive and out of touch with the realities almost 100% of the time.

Translation: They don't favor unilateral racist-motivated wars conducted by bullying neocon regimes.

Quoted message said:

Yours in everlasting enmity,

Glad to be of service! LOL!

Your Pal,

B

Rocketman said:

"Edward Dolan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]... ...

Quoted message said:

You liberal Dems are not supporting this country in its war against terrorism.

That's right. I would never support any war that can't define its military objectives....

Someone please explain to me how a war can be fought against an abstract noun? Does the military use
the threat of force to have all the dictionary editors remove it from the language?

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

"No passion so effectually robs the mind of all its powers of acting and reasoning as fear." -
Edmund Burke

(Edward Dolan) said:

I suspect the automatic translator might work better with respect to scientific documents than to
any kind of literature which is always notoriously difficult to translate well.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

Well, that's a nice theory, but what works in theory rarely works in practice, and what worked in
practice NEVER works during the game:

The square of the hypotenuse is equal to the sum of the squares on the two sides. An object in
motion tends to remain in motion; an object at rest tends to remain at rest unless acted upon by an
outside force.

when sent through the same Alta Vista alimentary tract became:

The square of Hypothenuse is uniform altogether in both squares. As for purpose of the movement you
snap because it remains in the movement; If remaining purpose on does not operate with external
force, you snap because it remains in remainder.

Which must have made perfect sense to someone. PythagoraNewton-san?

"Rocketman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<hgzwb.292967$HS4.2639452@attbi_s01>...

I see that everything I say to you peaks your interest. I wish I could say the same about what
you say to me, but there is as always only a couple of items in your long screeds that are worthy
of comment.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Your homage to the Constitution and our founding fathers is strictly for the purpose of
destroying this country as it is now constituted.

LOL! You neocons don't play your cards very close to your chest, do you? You might as well come
right out and say that you are in favor of re-writing the Constitution. You just implied it very
strongly, as have many of your neocon ilk. BushCo's contempt for the Constitution, as written, is
as plain as day. They have made little secret of it. It really chafes your ass when somebody
reminds you that the Constitution is cherished highly by all freedom-loving Americans. You can't
claim any exclusive right to it. You can apologize to me now for your hateful assertions.

Everyone pretends to worship the Constitution when it suits their purpose. Conservatives and
liberals do this in about equal measure. I put the nation above any and all constitutions. In the
end, the Constitution is a scrap of paper and it is what living men make of it that counts. The
history of the US is replete with everyone using the Constitution to get what they want. Believe it
or not, most Americans do not cherish the Constitution nearly so much as you might imagine. If it
ever got in the way of what most Americans want, it would be quickly changed or got around.

Quoted message said:

You wouldn't know treasonous if it walked up and bit you on the ass. Look it up in the dictionary.
Here's a free clue: Political dissent is not only legal in the US, it is one of the fundamental
freedoms upon which our country was founded. The founding fathers were very clear on this point,
and wrote about it extensively. By exercising my Constitutional rights to political dissent
publicly, I'm proving that they still exist. I am a hero and a lover of freedom, and you will
apologize to me if you are a real American.

Political dissent in a time of war is highly suspect. Our nation via our duly elected government has
taken this country to war and there is a lot at stake as long as the war is ongoing. There is a time
and a place for political dissent, and it is not when we are fighting for our survival as a nation.
Even a dumkopf like you will know when to shut up if and when the going gets really critical. In the
meantime, I have the American given Constitutional right to hate your guts which I will continue to
do for all eternity.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[email hidden] (Scott) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>... [...]

Quoted message said:

So, if Clinton lies (lied), we should accept the same from Bush?! What the are you saying? If you
haven't noticed, Iraq is devoid of WMD. One thing this proves to me is that Clinton (and the rest)
didn't know what the heck they were talking about either. I'll be happy to change my tune when the
warehouses of Serin gas and bio-tech weapons appear--not bloody likely!

You would not change your tune if we found atom bombs and missiles capable of delivering them to the
US, because your liberal ignorance is unconquerable.

We've been had;lots of US soldiers

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are dying, and Bush is too much a coward to attend even ONE funeral.

I give Bush lots of credit for not playing that sentimentalist liberal game of mourning at
funerals. That is all liberals are good for anyway. The thing that needs to be accomplished with a
vengeance is to be over there kicking ass and killing the enemy by the thousands. That is something
that candy ass liberals have forgotten how to do, although they used to know how to do it (FDR,
Truman, JFK and Johnson).

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Too bad Bush didn't get sent to Vietnam like he should have when he went AWOL from the National
Guard. What a shameless, Daddy's boy service dodger.

All irrelevant nonsense.

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My slogan for the next election: Any OTHER [censored] in 2004!

Scott

Relax Scott. It looks like you are going to have your opportunity to vote for Dean. It will be
another McGovern fiasco and the liberal Dems will richly deserve it. But be careful. The liberal
Dems will not go on forever if they continue to be weak on defense and continue to lose elections
because of it. They could easily go out of existence if the next election is too big a fiasco.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

Zippy the Pinhead <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

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(Edward Dolan) said:

You align yourself with murderers and tyrants. You, along with that other idiot Barry
(Rocketman), are beyond the pale, and are nothing but treasonous Americans at best.

Ah, Ed. You are such an anachronism.

We haven't had anything resembling a "pale" for a good many years now.

I trust you mean "pale" in the sense of the word's true etymology. That's a concept that has sadly
died, a long time ago.

Zippy, I am lost without my university library to resort to and I am relatively unsophisticated
about the Internet. Here is the common dictionary definition:

Main Entry: 1pale Pronunciation: 'pA(&😉l Function: noun Etymology: Middle English, from Middle
French pal stake, from Latin palus -- more at POLE Date: 12th century 1 archaic : PALISADE, PALING 2
a : one of the stakes of a palisade b : PICKET 3 a : a space or field having bounds : ENCLOSURE b :
a territory or district within certain bounds or under a particular jurisdiction
4 : an area or the limits within which one is privileged or protected (as from censure) <conduct
that was beyond the pale>
5 : a perpendicular stripe on a heraldic shield

Merriam-Webster

I am of course using the word according to the no. 4 definition.

But like you, I vaguely recall the word having a very interesting history. I think it originally
related to the Pale, a region in the Balkans, beyond which it was not safe for Christians to go
because that is where the Moslems were. But I am not sure about any of this.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

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Rocketman said:

"Edward Dolan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]... ...

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You liberal Dems are not supporting this country in its war against terrorism.

That's right. I would never support any war that can't define its military objectives....

Someone please explain to me how a war can be fought against an abstract noun? Does the military
use the threat of force to have all the dictionary editors remove it from the language?

No, No, Mr. Sherman! I said in my previous post that you should have been a preacher, not a teacher.
I do note that Fox News is now calling it the War On Terror.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota