Passion Judging sayaka kan constance cotter iuf and jua politics

For anyone that's interested, the quote above is from a discussion on
the new Freestyle judging system that was proposed in 2005. The quote
is about improving that system and is not related to the Freestyle
performances in 2004 (which were judged under a different set of
rules). That discussion can be found here:
http://tinyurl.com/93fk3

The "proposal they did not want you to see" can be found here:
http://tinyurl.com/yur7z3

It does not show up on the IUF Rulebook Committee 2007 page because it
awaits approval. The committee chairperson is Constance Cotter. You can
say she's being biased and hoping nobody will post this URL, or you can
notice that it's not a proposal for a rule change, so perhaps it needs
to be brought up in a different forum than that one. I would not expect
it to see the light of day in a Rulebook Committee discussion.

Simon has been offered a variety of places to find out more about the
events surrounding the Freestyle championship in 2004, and the changes
we made to avoid or prevent such a situation from happening in the
future. Judging results cannot be protested, or changed, after the
fact. Only calculation errors can be protested (but not three years
later). In 2004 there may have been one or more judges who didn't
properly appreciate what they were seeing, but the results were
accurate. Our new system is better.

The two web sites above are how we make updates to the IUF Rulebook
(the USA uses the same system). It's not a perfect system, but it works
very well.

--
johnfoss

John Foss
Email: "jfoss" at "unicycling.com" -- www.unicycling.com
-----------------------------------------------

"pretty much every trail that we've done on the California or Moab Muni
weekends is an XC trail." -- Kris Holm, on XC from a North Shore point
of view
------------------------------------------------------------------------
johnfoss's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/832
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/63446

Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

What Simon was proposing in the IUF rulebook committee is not actually
about changing the rules, rather about changing a result from 3yrs ago.
I don't think the IUF rulebook committee is there to change results.

There may be a conflict of interest, but I don't think you have a big
enough pool of judges that you can choose truely 'independent' judges
who have no affiliation to any club.

I think that you are implying that the results were altered which is a
pretty hefty accusation to make. What evidence do you have to support
this?

And as for protesting a result over 3yrs later....surely that is
bordering on a little bit late?

Ken Looi

--
GizmoDuck

The Uninam Tour 2008.....Hanoi to Saigon!!!
www.uninam.net

Email me for details.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
GizmoDuck's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/794
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/63446

Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

you asked for it

🙂 here we go readdy !!???😉

--
SimonWells
------------------------------------------------------------------------
SimonWells's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/772
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/63446

Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

ken said "What Simon was proposing in the IUF rulebook committee is not
actually about changing the rules, rather about changing a result from
3yrs ago. I don't think the IUF rulebook committee is there to change
results."

well in my mind i was more hoping to change the rules related to
changing results if the rulebooks rules were not applied when the
judgement was made 🙂

There may be a conflict of interest, but I don't think you have a big
enough pool of judges that you can choose truely 'independent' judges
who have no affiliation to any club.

I think the chef judge being the couch of both individual winnings and
the pairs is a little bit of a conflict of interest 😄

I think that you are implying that the results were altered which is a
pretty hefty accusation to make. What evidence do you have to support
this?

it is a grave accusation having truth on ones side and being a
passionate sportsman who be leafs in sportsmanship and being sporting
giving people a sporting chance and giving the rule book a sporting
change i true lee was too upset and worried by negitive reactions and
what my unicycling frirends wopuld think "wpeople form the tcucu
espeicaly consistice cotter even... i bit my tounge for 3 years and now
i am spiting it out be it on the border of too late

better justice late then "cheating" forever

And as for protesting a result over 3yrs later....surely that is
bordering on a little bit late?

Ken Looi

--
SimonWells
------------------------------------------------------------------------
SimonWells's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/772
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/63446

Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

proof is

here are some random quotes i collected

Nathan Hoover

"I was too embarrased to kiss her feet"
about Sayaka Kan

from Andy Cotter
it was a random process "we hit the thing 5 times before we got ryan in
last place "position in open mens freestyle 2004"

Kasahiro 2004 day before open mens freestyle indivual just after being
borken and shattered in the heart shark r a by the TCuC team in the
pairs he looks with me at the order of performance and looks at ryan at
last place rolls his eyes and shudders or something and gives off the
effect of looking like he'd be happy if ether me or him defeated ryan
the next day and wished me luck the next day "i embarrasingly enough
said nothing with out wishing luck back"

the next day with eyes looking as if he would have been sick/crying all
night not being able to win the pairs in his home country just after
anouncing his retirement from competing i asked how you are today and
he says morbidly

so so

and looks [censored] but still keeping his kin up "gom bel ley" "chin
uip in ninhon desu"

I felt sorry i didn't wish him luck.... but at the end of the day i was
competiing with him and i didn't rig the judging

as good a friends as sayaka and kasahiro are I wished that I could
place second behind the retireing champion and infrount of the
precousis talent

"ether way i was a world champion samwedge"

I truely belive that sayaka should have has a differanty data entry
person and chef judge then the couch of her rivals

also I found the custome and music less attractive and the masterly so
much
lessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

in amys 2004 routine also Sayaka convided in me personally about how
she was "unskilled" and giving up unicycling because she only managed
4th in siwsiland

maybe she would still be competing if and when she is/was awarded crowd
favret/ world champion for her home corwd i hope and prey maybe we will
see her ride again one day at a world unicycling event and i wish her
luck with her teaching career

Simon Thomas Wells

said this sincerely

--
SimonWells
------------------------------------------------------------------------
SimonWells's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/772
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/63446

Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

I think this is relivent
http://www.ichirin-net.com/video/Unicon12/Pairs02.asx

"please don't kill there bandwidth "anyone who is clever should post
the unicon 12 freestyle acts to youtube.. i'm at this moment not clever
enough...... or maybe people should just watch them spareingly at
http://www.ichirin-net.com/video/Unicon12/
and purchase the officail UNICON 12 DVD that io beliave the JUA product
prodused

--
SimonWells
------------------------------------------------------------------------
SimonWells's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/772
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/63446

Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

to view the 2004 routines (bandwitch spar ing ly)
"i'm dislexish don't worry about it 😉"

and tell me who they think should have won

--
SimonWells
------------------------------------------------------------------------
SimonWells's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/772
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/63446

Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

Ok... I am probably not a big freestyle expert, but a few remark from an
outside (european) point of view .
The japanese couple who finished second is truly amazing in terms of
presentation, and way higher than the american one in that point. I
think the big reproach one can do to their routine is the lack of
variety. How many times stand-up gliding ? How many times spin ? My
point is, I think that is where they lost: they don't show many
different skills like the others, even if for the ones they show, their
mastery is truly amazing.

Would I have been the judge, I would have judged the same.

P.S.: I LOVE both. When I said the Japanese couple "lost", I meant they
won second place...

--
GingoO
------------------------------------------------------------------------
GingoO's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/15132
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/63446

Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

how about the female individual

sayaka kan vs amy shilds ?

--
SimonWells
------------------------------------------------------------------------
SimonWells's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/772
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/63446

Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

Apparently in the U.S., all the pathetic whiners go into ice skating; I
guess that the Australian whiners, lacking winter and needing an
outlet, feel the need to get into freestyle unicycling.

Give it up, please. We'll install an ice skating rink for you.

--
tholub
------------------------------------------------------------------------
tholub's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/804
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/63446

Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

tholub said:

Apparently in the U.S., all the pathetic whiners go into ice skating; I
guess that the Australian whiners, lacking winter and needing an
outlet, feel the need to get into freestyle unicycling. Give it up,
please. We'll install an ice skating rink for you.

Tom dear, thank you for taking the time to check your spelling before
posting your rebuttal. Clear and concise communication, correctly
spelled, is always appreciated.

On the other hand, Simon, your rambling rants suffer greatly from your
lack of care to basic spelling, punctuation, and grammar. What -is-
your point exactly? It is clear you have one dear, but your message
gets lost among all the errors. Try to condense it down to the key
message, as tholub did.

Some have commented on the (lack of) timeliness of your post, although
I think that's the least of the issues. It is sentences that include
passages like "I think the chef judge being the couch" and "ether way i
was a world champion samwedge" that represent the true crime.

MA

--
Miss Ayelery
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Miss Ayelery's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/10854
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/63446

Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

SimonWells said:

how about the female individual

sayaka kan vs amy shilds ?

Well... It's probably a lot closer than for the pairs. Especially with
Amy's falls. This one may have been tough to judge, but I don't think
the result is scandalous. We can make the same remark as for pair.
Amazing presentation from Sayaka, amazing mastery, and even an effort
on the diversity of the skills provided. However, the variety of the
technical skills is again way higher in the case of Amy, which is
probably why she won.

I find the accusation about the chief judge quite disturbing, and I
don't understand how the chief judge could have more influence on the
result than any other judge. I guess there were judges from Japan along
with judges from the US or other countries. If all the styles were
represented here, I don't see how the chief judge could have changed
the results on her own.

--
GingoO
------------------------------------------------------------------------
GingoO's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/15132
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/63446

Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

The Chief Judge changed/manipulated nothing. In my mind, the only
question is whether she should have. One of the seven or eight judges
came up with results that were way off from the rest of the group.
Connie believed it was not within her power as Chief Judge to eliminate
the scores of the one judge, as that could also be seen as
"manipulating" the results. But there were more than the required five,
so it was, in my understanding of the Chief Judges' powers, an option
that was available to her.

There have been situations in the past, where bad (willing but
inexperienced) judges were noticed, and were removed from the panel but
not until the end of an age group. In the situation I'm thinking of
(Unicon IX), we checked the results at the end of the groups this
particular judge had judged, and determined that any "off" marks by
that judge did not affect the outcome for those groups. I was the Chief
Judge at Unicon IX.

The situation at Unicon XII in Japan was a little different. Not age
group, but the Experts. Results in that event could potentially effect
careers and future plans for the riders. One of the essential
requirements of doing a great Freestyle competition was not up to par;
the judging panel. At least one judge on the panel either didn't have
the experience or didn't understand the rules. OR, possibly this judge
just had different opinions (I don't subscribe to that one, but just
tossed it out there).

In any case, we have made improvements to the requirements for being a
Freestyle judge. Also we have modified the rules to throw out the high
and low scores from each judge when tablulating scores.

If Simon has a proposal for a rule improvement, we're still ready to
hear it and work with him to polish it as a new addition to our
Rulebook. Until then, random quotes and exchanged glances unfortunately
do not add up to evidence of anything. I exchanged glances and spoke to
those riders also. It's terrible if competition results are one's
reason for discontinuing the sport, but that is a personal choice. If
those riders had a beef with the judging process or results, surely we
would have heard from them by now.

--
johnfoss

John Foss
Email: "jfoss" at "unicycling.com" -- www.unicycling.com
-----------------------------------------------

"pretty much every trail that we've done on the California or Moab Muni
weekends is an XC trail." -- Kris Holm, on XC from a North Shore point
of view
------------------------------------------------------------------------
johnfoss's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/832
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/63446

Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

Both John Foss and Connie Cotter have addressed these issues in helpful
ways in 'this thread' (http://tinyurl.com/34s7dn)

--
Jethro

New Blog:'Unicycle Nation' (http://unicyclenation.wordpress.com/)

I Unicycle for Squirrels. I have't gotten one yet, but I keep trying.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jethro's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/9413
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/63446

Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

tholub said:

Apparently in the U.S., all the pathetic whiners go into ice skating; I
guess that the Australian whiners, lacking winter and needing an
outlet, feel the need to get into freestyle unicycling.
Give it up, please. We'll install an ice skating rink for you.

Funny; 'Amy Shields is an American figure-skater'
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amy_Shields), but somehow I'm not
surprised I haven't noticed her whining about above issue.

--
leo

Leo Vandewoestijne
+1 866-UNI-CYCL
*| 'unicycle.net' (http://www.unicycle.net/) | 'unicyclist.org'
(http://www.unicyclist.org/) | 'uniconnews.com'
(http://www.uniconnews.com/) |*
------------------------------------------------------------------------
leo's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/224
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/63446

Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

leo said:

Funny; 'Amy Shields is an American figure-skater'
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amy_Shields), but somehow I'm not
surprised I haven't noticed her whining about above issue.

All whiners are figure skaters. Socrates is a figure skater.
Therefore: ?

--
tholub
------------------------------------------------------------------------
tholub's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/804
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/63446

Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com