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See Jane Run, Run Jane Run

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
30 August 2007
Last activity
7 September 2007
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Michelle
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  1. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/30/health/nutrition/30Fitness.html?_r=1&or
    ef=slogin

    ONE day, about two years ago, my son asked me a probing question. ³Are
    you running just to run,² he asked, ³or do you have some purpose in
    mind?² I¹d been running for years but never thought to ask myself why.
    His question made me realize I wanted a goal. And it led me to pick one
    that now sounds kind of ludicrous, a five-kilometer race that was to be
    run in two weeks.

    I started to train.

    It was a revelation ‹ I got much faster with that little bit of
    training. I ran the race, won my age group, came home with a trophy, and
    decided to race again.

    Of course, there are lots of reasons to run, and not everyone cares
    about winning a race or winning his or her age group. There is nothing
    wrong with running for fun or to clear your head after a long day. But
    serious running is very different from the more casual running I used to
    do. And now that I¹ve grown more committed, I am starting to notice
    something odd about women and running.

    Men, as might be expected, get slower as they age. At a recent
    five-kilometer race in Pine Beach, N.J., which drew nearly 1,000
    runners, the fastest man was 24 years old and the men¹s times dropped
    with each five-year age group.

    But the women were different ‹ their times were all over the place with
    older women beating younger women in almost every age category. The
    fastest woman was 37 years old; the fastest woman in the 45 to 49 age
    group beat the fastest woman in the 20 to 24 and the 40 to 44 age groups.

    The same thing happened in another five-kilometer local race, the Eden
    Family Run, in Princeton, N.J.

    There, the top female runner in the 50 to 54 age group beat the top
    females in the 20 to 24, 25 to 29, and 40 to 44 age groups.

    And it¹s not just a New Jersey effect. Others have noticed it elsewhere
    and when I did a random check of race results in California, I saw it
    there too. On Aug. 8, in a 10-kilometer race in Alameda, the 53-year-old
    woman who won in the 50 to 54 age group was faster than the woman who
    won in the 25 to 29 group. A 38-year-old woman beat every other woman in
    the race.

    Results like those made me wonder, Are women really trying in these
    races and, if they are, why are older women beating younger women?

    Mary Wittenberg, president of New York Road Runners, thinks part of the
    answer is that most female runners shortchange themselves. Look at them
    before races she said. Men warm up and do strides, short runs to prepare
    to take off at the starting line. A lot of women hang back, often
    because they are embarrassed to be out there with the men, acting like
    determined athletes, Ms. Wittenberg said.

    ³They are too inhibited to put their full passion out there,² she said.
    ³They are almost afraid to be serious about a sport. They think that if
    they¹re not the best, they shouldn¹t care so much.²

    Other women have no idea what they are capable of or how to get faster,
    said Dr. Vonda Wright, an orthopedic surgeon at the University of
    Pittsburgh Medical Center.

    Dr. Wright, who holds running clinics for beginners and for those who
    want to compete, said women often get the impression that they should
    not put much effort into runs. That¹s the message of some ads and
    magazine articles telling people to run easy, and that, Dr. Wright said,
    ³can be negative information² for women who might like to compete. It is
    too tempting, she said, ³to be lulled into thinking that¹s enough.²

    Ms. Wittenberg feels the same way. A run-easy message is fine if it
    helps get people started in the sport. But, she added, there is also a
    risk, ³in that it sneers at hard work and pushing to limits.²

    Dr. Wright said she knows from experience the difference between going
    easy and challenging training. A few years ago, Dr. Wright, 40, was
    living in New York and running in Central Park. ³I was jogging around at
    9 ? to 10 minutes a mile,² she said, and she had been doing the same
    unhurried run for years.

    One day, she says, she asked herself, ³What am I capable of?² In a few
    months of training, she got much stronger and faster and ended up
    running a 10-kilometer race at a speed of 7:44 a mile.

    ³After 10 years of running at 9:30 I felt so amazing when I realized my
    time,² she said.

    Ralph Vernacchia, who directs the Center for Performance Excellence at
    Western Washington University in Bellingham, Wash., has worked with
    elite runners including Olympians. And with elite runners, there is no
    question about competitive drive.

    But with average runners, he said, older women may be faster because,
    oddly enough, they are trying harder than younger women and discovering
    for the first time what they are capable of.

    Most middle-aged women grew up when track and cross-country teams were
    for men only. Some of those women, who had no opportunity to race when
    they were young, are just learning to be athletes and are running faster
    than younger women who may not care as much.

    He described the experience for women as ³a kind of wakening, an
    epiphany.²

    That is not to say that training is easy, he added. Being an athlete
    requires dedication and training, Dr. Vernacchia explained.

    ³It¹s a mindset and once you know the method, it¹s a real achievement.
    It takes emotional energy, spiritual energy and physical energy. There¹s
    a difference between being involved and being committed. To be an
    athlete you must be committed.²

    ³Commitment is a state you find yourself in when the gun goes off,² Dr.
    Vernacchia said.

    Then, if you are lucky, you beat all those younger women.

    --
    Crossing the starting line is 90%.
    Crossing the finish line is the other 90%.

  2. Michelle said:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/30/health/nutrition/30Fitness.html?_r=...
    ef=slogin

    snip

    It's a violation of copyrights to copy and paste entire articles and/
    or web content pages and just stick them into postings like this.
    Generally consided not good form even if the material is not copyright
    protected.

    Perhaps an alternate approach more suited to this group might be to
    put in some text "I found this interesting or helpful and ( here is
    why ) then supply a link ".

    Such an approach can help avoid copyright concerns as well as limiting
    and large copy and pastes into this newsgroup.

    As far as that specific article I tend to disagree about the
    commitment remark. I personally think commitment begins when you have
    properly trained for a realistic attempt at running a race. Just
    starting and finishing demonstrates participation IMHO which is a
    several different layers away from commitment to a sport.

  3. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Quoted message said:

    As far as that specific article I tend to disagree about the
    commitment remark. I personally think commitment begins when you
    have properly trained for a realistic attempt at running a race.
    Just starting and finishing demonstrates participation IMHO which is
    a several different layers away from commitment to a sport.

    It takes a commitment to be able to start and finish. Maybe if you're a
    natural at the sport and don't have to train, starting and finishing
    doesn't show a commitment. But for many of us, getting out there and
    running three or more days a week just to be able to finish a
    race--heck, just getting out there and running, even if you never enter
    a race--shows a commitment to running.

    --
    Crossing the starting line is 90%.
    Crossing the finish line is the other 90%.

  4. Michelle said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Quoted message said:

    As far as that specific article I tend to disagree about the
    commitment remark. I personally think commitment begins when you
    have properly trained for a realistic attempt at running a race.
    Just starting and finishing demonstrates participation IMHO which is
    a several different layers away from commitment to a sport.

    It takes a commitment to be able to start and finish. Maybe if you're a
    natural at the sport and don't have to train, starting and finishing
    doesn't show a commitment. But for many of us, getting out there and
    running three or more days a week just to be able to finish a
    race--heck, just getting out there and running, even if you never enter
    a race--shows a commitment to running.

    --
    Crossing the starting line is 90%.
    Crossing the finish line is the other 90%.

    Different people's opinions will vary.

    Running for more than a year shows "an interest". Running for more
    than 5 years shows a commitment.

    Those of us going past 10/15/20/25 years or more ... a serious
    problem.

  5. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Quoted message said:

    Running for more than a year shows "an interest". Running for more
    than 5 years shows a commitment.

    So if you just started you can't be committed?

    --
    Crossing the starting line is 90%.
    Crossing the finish line is the other 90%.

  6. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Quoted message said:

    Those of us going past 10/15/20/25 years or more ... a serious
    problem.

    So my friend who has been running for 30+ years has a very serious
    problem? I'd better clue her in on that.

    --
    Crossing the starting line is 90%.
    Crossing the finish line is the other 90%.

  7. <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Michelle said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Quoted message said:

    As far as that specific article I tend to disagree about the
    commitment remark. I personally think commitment begins when you
    have properly trained for a realistic attempt at running a race.
    Just starting and finishing demonstrates participation IMHO which is
    a several different layers away from commitment to a sport.

    It takes a commitment to be able to start and finish. Maybe if you're a
    natural at the sport and don't have to train, starting and finishing
    doesn't show a commitment. But for many of us, getting out there and
    running three or more days a week just to be able to finish a
    race--heck, just getting out there and running, even if you never enter
    a race--shows a commitment to running.

    Even a year of consistent running, or mix of cross training, shows
    commitment. I don't know how many people actually exercise consistently,
    but, what, 1/3 of adults are considered obese in the USA! Normally people
    who make it through a year of consistent exercise, I would think, see the
    benefits and continue on. Wintertime is a struggle for me, which is the time
    to 'develop your base', but sometimes it "just don't seem natural like".

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    --
    Crossing the starting line is 90%.
    Crossing the finish line is the other 90%.

    Different people's opinions will vary.

    Running for more than a year shows "an interest". Running for more
    than 5 years shows a commitment.

    Those of us going past 10/15/20/25 years or more ... a serious
    problem.

    That depends on how obsessed you are about it 😉

    -Tony, who has been running for 25+ years on and off, and biking for 30+
    years, again, on and off, but normally some mix of the two, according to the
    seasons.

  8. "Michelle" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Quoted message said:

    Running for more than a year shows "an interest". Running for more
    than 5 years shows a commitment.

    So if you just started you can't be committed?

    Several on this group should have been committed long ago ;-)

    Quoted message said:


    --
    Crossing the starting line is 90%.
    Crossing the finish line is the other 90%.

  9. On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 07:40:27 -0700, Michelle <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/30/health/nutrition/30Fitness.html?_r=1&or
    ef=slogin

    <Snipped a bunch>

    Quoted message said:


    Men, as might be expected, get slower as they age. At a recent
    five-kilometer race in Pine Beach, N.J., which drew nearly 1,000
    runners, the fastest man was 24 years old and the men¹s times dropped
    with each five-year age group.

    But the women were different ‹ their times were all over the place with
    older women beating younger women in almost every age category. The
    fastest woman was 37 years old; the fastest woman in the 45 to 49 age
    group beat the fastest woman in the 20 to 24 and the 40 to 44 age groups.

    that statement is certainly not universal.

    In this area the vast majority of short races are won by individuals
    in the 15-19 age group, both genders, providing there are no pros in
    the race and there won't be if there is no cash prize.
    Most of the winners are high school cross country runners who train
    year round. In this area, many times women in the 50 plus age groups
    can win by walking, while the men have to turn times close to 20 for a
    5K and low forties for the 10K. The men may be five minutes off the
    overall winning time, the women often three or four times that.

    Frank

  10. Michelle said:

    ³Are
    you running just to run,² he asked, ³or do you have some purpose in
    mind?

    Thanks for this, Michelle :-)

  11. Quoted message said:

    It's a violation of copyrights to copy and paste entire articles and/
    or web content pages and just stick them into postings like this.
    Generally consided not good form even if the material is not copyright
    protected.

    It's also very poor form to turn up on usenet and be a [censored]

  12. Michelle said:

    ONE day, about two years ago, my son asked me a probing question. ³Are
    you running just to run,² he asked, ³or do you have some purpose in
    mind?² I¹d been running for years but never thought to ask myself why.
    His question made me realize I wanted a goal. And it led me to pick one
    that now sounds kind of ludicrous, a five-kilometer race that was to be
    run in two weeks.

    For you, yes it is.

    Quoted message said:

    I started to train.


    Legs in the air? Or those grueling 17MPM runs? I just don't know how
    those 95YO bones can take that punishment for 2 or 3 WHOLE miles. Wow,
    you are my hero...

    Quoted message said:

    It was a revelation ‹ I got much faster with that little bit of
    training. I ran the race, won my age group, came home with a trophy, and
    decided to race again.

    Of course with only you in that age group, it made winning a bit
    easier.

    Quoted message said:

    Of course, there are lots of reasons to run, and not everyone cares
    about winning a race or winning his or her age group.


    <snip long, boring, stupid [censored]>

  13. "Bill Davidson (aka Lil' [censored])" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    Michelle <[email hidden]> wrote in news:michelle-
    [email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/30/health/nutrition/30Fitness.html?_r=1
    &or ef=slogin

    ONE day, about two years ago, my son asked me a probing question.
    ³Are you running just to run,² he asked, ³or do you have some purpose
    in mind?² I¹d been running for years but never thought to ask myself
    why. His question made me realize I wanted a goal. And it led me to
    pick one that now sounds kind of ludicrous, a five-kilometer race
    that was to be run in two weeks.

    I started to train.

    Michell, I still hate you and your damned female [censored].

    It's obvious. It's one of the few things you say that hits close to home.
    --
    Alric Knebel

  14. Alric Knebel said:

    "Bill Davidson (aka Lil' [censored])" <[email hidden]> wrote innews:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    Michelle <[email hidden]> wrote in news:michelle-
    [email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/30/health/nutrition/30Fitness.html?_r=1
    &or ef=slogin

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    ONE day, about two years ago, my son asked me a probing question.
    ³Are you running just to run,² he asked, ³or do you have some purpose
    in mind?² I¹d been running for years but never thought to ask myself
    why. His question made me realize I wanted a goal. And it led me to
    pick one that now sounds kind of ludicrous, a five-kilometer race
    that was to be run in two weeks.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I started to train.

    Quoted message said:

    Michell, I still hate you and your damned female [censored].

    It's obvious. It's one of the few things you say that hits close to home..
    --

    Btt I still love your manpussy Bill.
    --
    _________________
    Alric Knebel

    http://www.ironeyefortress.com/C-SPAN_loon.html
    http://www.ironeyefortress.com

  15. Quoted message said:

    [edit post]

    time of post: 6:49 PM.

    --
    _________________
    Alric Knebel

    http://www.ironeyefortress.com/C-SPAN_loon.html
    http://www.ironeyefortress.com

  16. Michelle said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Quoted message said:

    Running for more than a year shows "an interest". Running for more
    than 5 years shows a commitment.

    So if you just started you can't be committed?

    Are the 2 sentences from me ( as above ) so hard to understand?

    Looks like you are in the fad/infatuation part of the jogging
    experience. There's a lot of good things happening in your body/brain
    as endorphins kick in.

    The experienced runners have all been there at some point in time.

    Part of the experience of learning to become a runner comes with
    setting realistic goals and learning to progress slowly.

    Moving from participating in a 5k run to racing a half marathon is
    also something many of us have done. There's a huge and qualitative
    difference though between mastering racing at shorter distances and
    moving on up slowly to setting some arbitrary date for participating
    in an event that one is totally unprepared for IMHO.

  17. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Running for more than a year shows "an interest". Running for
    more than 5 years shows a commitment.

    So if you just started you can't be committed?

    Are the 2 sentences from me ( as above ) so hard to understand?

    Not at all. It's just that I disagree with it, and so do a number of
    more experienced runners. In fact, I haven't found anyone who agrees
    with it.

    Quoted message said:

    Looks like you are in the fad/infatuation part of the jogging
    experience.

    The only reason you have posited for that is that I haven't been running
    for more than five years.

    Quoted message said:

    There's a lot of good things happening in your body/brain as
    endorphins kick in.

    So? How is that relevant?

    Quoted message said:

    The experienced runners have all been there at some point in time.

    And now they don't have endorphins from running any more?

    Quoted message said:

    Part of the experience of learning to become a runner comes with
    setting realistic goals and learning to progress slowly.

    Agreed, but that does not substantiate your claim that running for less
    than five years shows a lack of commitment.

    Quoted message said:

    Moving from participating in a 5k run to racing a half marathon is
    also something many of us have done.

    Your point is?

    Quoted message said:

    There's a huge and qualitative difference though between mastering
    racing at shorter distances and moving on up slowly to setting some
    arbitrary date for participating in an event that one is totally
    unprepared for IMHO.

    The whole point of training for a race is to move from being unprepared
    for it to being prepared for it. If I were prepared for it, I wouldn't
    have to train for it. Oh, I didn't set an arbitrary date for the race;
    the race sponsors set the date for the race, and I decided back in
    February of this year that I would be ready to run it. I spent the time
    from then through the end of July to build up by base in order to be
    ready to start the training plan.

    So if you have a point, please state it unambiguously and with a logical
    rationale to support it. Thus far you haven't said anything worthwhile.

    --
    Crossing the starting line is 90%.
    Crossing the finish line is the other 90%.

  18. "Michelle" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    So if you have a point, please state it unambiguously and with a logical
    rationale to support it. Thus far you haven't said anything worthwhile.


    Probably part of the point is that many experienced runners have seen 1-3
    year running wonders and then either burnout or disinterest or just moving
    on. If you go to the same 10-20 races a year, you see some of the same
    people but mostly you see people passing through. I know a lot of guys that
    ran for a year or two and quit, but after 10-15 years, I feel a deeper sense
    of satisfaction for running and a modest amount of satisfaction for races.

    This of course is not meant to be perjorative, in fact quite the opposite.
    Most veteran runners LOVE to see new runners and the excitement they bring
    to races. Many of us would love new runners to become veteran runners.

    Quoted message said:

    --
    Crossing the starting line is 90%.
    Crossing the finish line is the other 90%.

  19. <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    Moving from participating in a 5k run to racing a half marathon is
    also something many of us have done. There's a huge and qualitative
    difference though between mastering racing at shorter distances and
    moving on up slowly to setting some arbitrary date for participating
    in an event that one is totally unprepared for IMHO.

    For the record, the first race of any distance I did was a hot, hilly
    marathon...

    However, I was ready -- having run a couple of 20 milers, and a disastrous
    attempt at 27 miles (had to call the wife for a ride home at 22 miles -- she
    was not pleased :-)

    I imagine the equivalent preparation for a HM would be running 9-10 miles
    successfully, by which I mean faster than a jog.

    If you can run x distance, you can usually run 2x by slowing down 6-8%.
    (only applies if x is run at faster than a shuffle -- otherwise slowing down
    will have you walking)

    I have run 50 mile races on no more than 20 miles as a long run, but it's
    best to get into the 30's at least once...

  20. In article <[email hidden]>,

    D Stumpus said:

    I imagine the equivalent preparation for a HM would be running 9-10
    miles successfully, by which I mean faster than a jog.

    The program I'm following has me running 9 miles two weeks before the
    race, and 10 miles one week before the race.

    --
    Crossing the starting line is 90%.
    Crossing the finish line is the other 90%.

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