Why is Shimano so hated by some?

"Evan Evans" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

As a frequent visitor to this group. I've noticed that there are a few posters who use this as a
platform to steer people against the use of Shimano components. What's wrong with Shimano?

They're like, "the man," dude, and they're like, keepin' us all down...

Matt O.

(Evan Evans) said:

As a frequent visitor to this group. I've noticed that there are a few posters who use this as a
platform to steer people against the use of Shimano components. What's wrong with Shimano?

There are those who are always against the "big guy". Doesnt really matter if they make a decent
product or not. Same with Microsoft. They will always have those who bash them - just because of who
they are, and not based on any real comparisons. Not to say that ALL Shimano stuff is gold, but a
lot of it is very good.

(Evan Evans) said:

As a frequent visitor to this group. I've noticed that there are a few posters who use this as a
platform to steer people against the use of Shimano components. What's wrong with Shimano?

Well, mainly, they're the biggest fish in the pond and thus they are the biggest target. While I
don't use Shimano stuff (I don't like the way STI levers work), the truth is that they have put a
lot of work into making sure their products function well from the top of the line down to the
bottom. $400 bikes nowadays work better than $750 bikes of 20 years ago, in terms of shifting and
such. They're easier for new riders to use and that's all to the good for growing the sport.

For the enthusiast, the downside is that at any given price point, a bike is a bike is a bike. For
the normal person, that may be an upside. :-D

Shimano is like the Microsoft of the bicycle world, the difference being that Shimano products are
reliably good. Campagnolo is the Apple of the bicycling world- their products arguably work better
and last longer, but there is a premium to be paid. Suntour would be perhaps the OS/2 of the bicycle
world- late and great. ;-)

LOL

"Matt O'Toole" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Evan Evans" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

As a frequent visitor to this group. I've noticed that there are a few posters who use this as a
platform to steer people against the use of Shimano components. What's wrong with Shimano?

They're like, "the man," dude, and they're like, keepin' us all down...

Matt O.

"Dan Brussee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

There are those who are always against the "big guy". Doesnt really matter if they make a decent
product or not. Same with Microsoft. They will always have those who bash them - just because of
who they are, and not based on any real comparisons. Not to say that ALL Shimano stuff is gold,
but a lot of it is very good.

Yup, and usually the prices are very reasonable. You can get pretty decent stuff (freehubs, hubs,
cantilevers etc.) for not much money. Certainly when compared to the aftermarket bonanza in mountain
biking a few years back. People would pay double for aftermarket stuff when I honestly think the
Shimano stuff is perfectly fine for the majority of riders. Still, it's nice to have alternatives.
And you have to be a rocket scientist to get an STI lever back together!! ;-)

Cheers,

Scott..

The biggest problem with Shimano and the reason they are so disliked by some is that they're
successful. It's definitely a topic that arouses passion and can even reflect one's political
ideologies.

Dan Brussee said:

(Evan Evans) said:

As a frequent visitor to this group. I've noticed that there are a few posters who use this as a
platform to steer people against the use of Shimano components. What's wrong with Shimano?

There are those who are always against the "big guy". Doesnt really matter if they make a decent
product or not. Same with Microsoft. They will always have those who bash them - just because of
who they are, and not based on any real comparisons.

Microsoft is ethically a much nastier company than Shimano, and MS's products are worse.

[email hidden] (Evan Evans) wrote;

Quoted message said:

As a frequent visitor to this group. I've noticed that there are a few posters who use this as a
platform to steer people against the use of Shimano components. What's wrong with Shimano?

My take:

1) Shimano abuse their position as market leader to displace other options from the marketplace,
particularly the market for new complete bikes.

2) Shimano make lots of weak, breakage-prone, quick-wearing, and non-serviceable parts for the
lowest possible cost, then proceed to charge just as much as the market will bear.

3) Shimano make equipment to serve the most easily accomodated 80% of users, while
ignoring the rest.

If you don't have unusual requirements for bike components, don't care whether other sources and
options are available to you, and don't care whether other sources and options are available to
others, then there is no reason for you to avoid Shimano products.

If you appreciate variety and choices in the market for bike equipment, note that buying Shimano
products works to reduce the variety and choices available.

Evan Evans said:

Shimano components. What's wrong with Shimano?

Nothing. Been working fine for me since 1988.

Tim McNamara said:

Suntour would be perhaps the OS/2 of the bicycle world- late and great. ;-)

And still running a hell of a lot of ATMs throughout the world!

Den Fri, 28 Nov 2003 22:30:01 -0600 skrev Tim McNamara:

Quoted message said:

Shimano is like the Microsoft of the bicycle world, the difference being that Shimano products are
reliably good. Campagnolo is the Apple of the bicycling world- their products arguably work better
and last longer, but there is a premium to be paid. Suntour would be perhaps the OS/2 of the
bicycle world- late and great. ;-)

Where is Linux? I would like to see some free bike products ;-)

Tim McNamara <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

(Evan Evans) said:

As a frequent visitor to this group. I've noticed that there are a few posters who use this as a
platform to steer people against the use of Shimano components. What's wrong with Shimano?

Well, mainly, they're the biggest fish in the pond and thus they are the biggest target. While I
don't use Shimano stuff (I don't like the way STI levers work), the truth is that they have put a
lot of work into making sure their products function well from the top of the line down to the
bottom. $400 bikes nowadays work better than $750 bikes of 20 years ago, in terms of shifting and
such. They're easier for new riders to use and that's all to the good for growing the sport.

For the enthusiast, the downside is that at any given price point, a bike is a bike is a bike. For
the normal person, that may be an upside. :-D

Shimano is like the Microsoft of the bicycle world, the difference being that Shimano products are
reliably good. Campagnolo is the Apple of the bicycling world- their products arguably work better
and last longer, but there is a premium to be paid. Suntour would be perhaps the OS/2 of the
bicycle world- late and great. ;-)

let me just paint a black & white picture. The Campy guys love there bikes ,worship them & enjoy any
opportunity to tinker with them. The Shimano guys say "it works lets go ride".

Tim McNamara said:

Well, mainly, they're the biggest fish in the pond ...

Interesting analogy considering what their main business is. ;-)

Art Harris

[email hidden] (Chalo) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (Evan Evans) wrote;

Quoted message said:

As a frequent visitor to this group. I've noticed that there are a few posters who use this as a
platform to steer people against the use of Shimano components. What's wrong with Shimano?

My take:

1) Shimano abuse their position as market leader to displace other options from the marketplace,
particularly the market for new complete bikes.

2) Shimano make lots of weak, breakage-prone, quick-wearing, and non-serviceable parts for the
lowest possible cost, then proceed to charge just as much as the market will bear.

3) Shimano make equipment to serve the most easily accomodated 80% of users, while ignoring the
rest.

If you don't have unusual requirements for bike components, don't care whether other sources and
options are available to you, and don't care whether other sources and options are available to
others, then there is no reason for you to avoid Shimano products.

If you appreciate variety and choices in the market for bike equipment, note that buying Shimano
products works to reduce the variety and choices available.

Is Dura-Ace weak & brakeage prone?

In article <[email hidden]>, Evan Evans

Quoted message said:

As a frequent visitor to this group. I've noticed that there are a few posters who use this as a
platform to steer people against the use of Shimano components. What's wrong with Shimano?

I am happy with any bicycle component maker that I can afford to buy with my hard earned money.
Shimano is no exception..

I find that Shimano's quality of workmanship even with their lower end components are always better
than the cheaper generic replacements. I ride a lot each year, so generic stuff just don't last as
long as Shimano's equivalent. So for me, I don't complain about Shimano's pricing.. The old saying
still holds true -- You always get what you've paid for.

But most of the Shimano's complaint has been centered around their well known STI finite lifespan..
However, you've got to look at the perspective that Shimano sells a lot of these STIs compared to
Campagnolo with their Ergos, so even a 1% return (factory defect) for Shimano, the number will
ALWAYS be larger than Campagnolo. Ofcourse, people hate returning back with their bikes to the shop
for repairs. Usually, they do not want to resolve the issues with their dealers or with Shimano in a
nice and professional manner -- usually ends up either in a shouting match or an ultimatum. If the
issues can not be resolved to the customers' satisfaction, some customers may opt to vent their
frustration here. Again, since there are more Shimano owners than say SRAM, Campagnolo, Modolo
shifters probably combined, you are bound to get people advising you here against the use of Shimano
components.

I have used Shimano stuff in the past and have always been happy with
it. A few times, things do not work out but I always go back to my LBS, inquire nicely and usually
get the problem resolved. I use Shimano stuff because it is widely available and they are
affordable. I have only gone Campy Ergo and Dura-Ace combo recently because I happened to get
them CHEAPER (50-70%) than what my LBS can sell me and replacement STIs were out of my price
range. But I am not emotionally mad when my STIs kicked the bucket, as I realized things do
break. Yes, STIs are not serviceable, but then many old digital cameras and old computers out
there are not economically serviceable either. I like to think that we cyclists are mature
people and I hope we are..

[email hidden] (Evan Evans) wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

As a frequent visitor to this group. I've noticed that there are a few posters who use this as a
platform to steer people against the use of Shimano components. What's wrong with Shimano?

With their products? Nothing, generally. The main argument you'll read here is STI vx Ergo. When STI
wears or breaks, they don't make replacement parts available. Ergo has every part available for
replacement. Furthermore, most of the "workings" (ratchets, springs and holders, etc) are the same
for Record and all the way down the line.

Some folks like the way one fits the hand or operates better than the other. That's what it
really comes to.

On the other hand, Shimano has been compared with Microsoft here, and it's for a good reason. On
OEM, they make their stuff available to manufacturers far cheaper than does Campy. So, they've
flooded the market. (Like I said, their stuff is great.) Some folks will then take left-over
inventory, etc, and sell it to mail order houses. It will then often appear in their listings
cheaper than does Campy. Word has it Shimano is putting an end to this "practice". Example - look at
the prices of the Shimano 7800-series (DA 10-spd). Whatever, their PAST business practices have been
found to be annoying to some.

FWIW, although Shimano dominates the cycle industry, cycling is only a small part of their business.
There mostly a fishing reel company. Shows the respect our sport gets, right?

In article said:

[email hidden] (Evan Evans) wrote;

Quoted message said:

As a frequent visitor to this group. I've noticed that there are a few posters who use this as a
platform to steer people against the use of Shimano components. What's wrong with Shimano?

My take:

1) Shimano abuse their position as market leader to displace other options from the marketplace,
particularly the market for new complete bikes.

I think most dealers would be more than happy to stock just 1 manufacturer for the market they
serve. Not all bicycle dealers are created equal. Some are more affluent and well off than others.
The ones that are just getting by serving 95% Shimano clients are not going to go out of their way
to stock bikes with SRAM, Campagnolo or Modolo shifters or components. Why should they? Times are
tough these days, and people don't like stocking inventory that just sits there doing nothing, which
sometimes usually ends up sold for much less. If customers want something special, there's a number
of custom bike works online as there's also eBay to entertain their wallets with.

Quoted message said:

2) Shimano make lots of weak, breakage-prone, quick-wearing, and non-serviceable parts for the
lowest possible cost, then proceed to charge just as much as the market will bear.

This I don't agree. Other than their STI shifters which are mostly non serviceable, *most* of their
other components are serviceable.

Quoted message said:

3) Shimano make equipment to serve the most easily accomodated 80% of users, while ignoring the
rest.

If you don't have unusual requirements for bike components, don't care whether other sources and
options are available to you, and don't care whether other sources and options are available to
others, then there is no reason for you to avoid Shimano products.

If you appreciate variety and choices in the market for bike equipment, note that buying Shimano
products works to reduce the variety and choices available.

Would you like to elaborate on the unusual requirements people need that Shimano does not offer?

Jokke said:

Den Fri, 28 Nov 2003 22:30:01 -0600 skrev Tim McNamara:

Quoted message said:

Shimano is like the Microsoft of the bicycle world, the difference being that Shimano products
are reliably good. Campagnolo is the Apple of the bicycling world- their products arguably work
better and last longer, but there is a premium to be paid. Suntour would be perhaps the OS/2 of
the bicycle world- late and great. ;-)

Where is Linux? I would like to see some free bike products ;-)

The bicycling equivalent of Linux is at www.ihpva.org. :-D

Arthur Harris said:

Tim McNamara said:

Well, mainly, they're the biggest fish in the pond ...

Interesting analogy considering what their main business is. ;-)

ROTFL! I had not thought about that at all!