Re: Trek Pure Sport or Electra Townie 28 or Trek Lime ???

Quoted message said:

At any rate, I think another point of view deserved an airing. With a
greedy corporate juggernaut such as Trek beating the drums for the
'other side', I think these guys need all the exposure they can get.

Could you, please, provide a definition of what this "other side" is, and
what makes it so evil?

Is it something that happens when you get "too big?" How big would that be?

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

At any rate, I think another point of view deserved an airing. With a
greedy corporate juggernaut such as Trek beating the drums for the
'other side', I think these guys need all the exposure they can get.

Could you, please, provide a definition of what this "other side" is, and
what makes it so evil?

Did I mention "evil"? Perhaps you have something on your mind?

Your Freudian slips aside, the 'other side' is the side that wants to
relegate bicycles to bike lanes, bike paths, etc. The side Trek, in
their quest to sell more bikes, is supporting. The side that, in the
long run, works against the use of bicycles as legitimate means of
transportation.

As opposed to this:

http://www.labreform/BFC.html

Ozark Bicycle said:

As opposed to this:

http://www.labreform/BFC.html

Maybe that site is off line?

vey said:

Ozark Bicycle said:

As opposed to this:

Quoted message said:

http://www.labreform/BFC.html

Maybe that site is off line?

Mea culpa!

http://www.labreform.org/BFC.html

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Could you, please, provide a definition of what this "other side" is, and
what makes it so evil?

Did I mention "evil"? Perhaps you have something on your mind?

Your Freudian slips aside, the 'other side' is the side that wants to
relegate bicycles to bike lanes, bike paths, etc. The side Trek, in
their quest to sell more bikes, is supporting. The side that, in the
long run, works against the use of bicycles as legitimate means of
transportation.

As opposed to this:

http://www.labreform/BFC.html

Are you arguing just to argue, or are you actually involved in advocacy in
some manner?

Just because you support bike lanes & paths does not mean you're against
complete access to the roads for cyclists. If you were to visit Trek, you'd
find the majority of its employees would be the sort who'd rebel radically
against an attempt to force anyone onto a multi-use bike path (the worst of
all possible worlds, in my humble opinion, for those of us who ride
competently).

Trek presently makes money selling bikes largely to competent, experienced
cyclists. They're not a stupid company. They're not going to kill the goose
that laid the golden egg.

We can have both. That's what I push for, that's what you should be pushing
for. There's room in this world for all manner of cyclists, not just those
who ride the same as either you or I.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

Ozark Bicycle said:

Your Freudian slips aside, the 'other side' is the side that wants to
relegate bicycles to bike lanes, bike paths, etc. The side Trek, in
their quest to sell more bikes, is supporting.

My Trek Portland is quite suited for actual roads, and it proves
itself every workday morning.

Bike lanes? Roads? Whatever works for the individual riding the bike.

More bikes = better. Always!

Ozark Bicycle said:

vey said:

Ozark Bicycle wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

As opposed to this:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

http://www.labreform/BFC.html

Quoted message said:

Maybe that site is off line?

Mea culpa!

http://www.labreform.org/BFC.html

I agree with them to a point. Back in Gothenburg we have dedicated
bicycle roads completely separated from traffic with their own lights--
they're incredible. Of course you're free to use the roadway as well.
My neighborhood here has cycle lanes on a couple major routes, and
they're there simply because there was enough room to paint them. They
were done well. Cycling is up hundredfolds here on the east bank of
the holler, probably due to folks seeing my magnificent bod hauling
dog food in an ancient Timbuk2 bag.

To be honest, I'm more worried about the local evening peloton of
yuppies that fly through stop signs en masse, even when they don't
have the right-of-way. I'm thinking thumbtacks. Beautiful thumbtacks--
even more badass than the pump scene in Breaking Away. Damn Townies.

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Could you, please, provide a definition of what this "other side"
is, and what makes it so evil?

{Who wrote???:}

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Did I mention "evil"? Perhaps you have something on your mind?

Your Freudian slips aside, the 'other side' is the side that wants to
relegate bicycles to bike lanes, bike paths, etc. The side Trek, in
their quest to sell more bikes, is supporting. The side that, in the
long run, works against the use of bicycles as legitimate means of
transportation.

As opposed to this:

http://www.labreform/BFC.html

Quoted message said:

Are you arguing just to argue, or are you actually involved in
advocacy in some manner?

Mike, why are you protecting (hiding) this person's identity? Shall I
assume it's Ozark (or some other long-ago plonkee)?

Bill "quotation, please" S.

{rest relegated to the bike path...}

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Are you arguing just to argue, or are you actually involved in
advocacy in some manner?

Mike, why are you protecting (hiding) this person's identity? Shall I
assume it's Ozark (or some other long-ago plonkee)?

Bill "quotation, please" S.

Bill: Sorry, in my haste to keep the relevant portion of text brief, I
clipped too much. Yes, this is a conversation with Ozark.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

"Bill Sornson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

> Could you, please, provide a definition of what this "other side"
> is, and what makes it so evil?

{Who wrote???:}

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Did I mention "evil"? Perhaps you have something on your mind?

Your Freudian slips aside, the 'other side' is the side that wants to
relegate bicycles to bike lanes, bike paths, etc. The side Trek, in
their quest to sell more bikes, is supporting. The side that, in the
long run, works against the use of bicycles as legitimate means of
transportation.

As opposed to this:

http://www.labreform/BFC.html

Quoted message said:

Are you arguing just to argue, or are you actually involved in
advocacy in some manner?

Mike, why are you protecting (hiding) this person's identity? Shall I
assume it's Ozark (or some other long-ago plonkee)?

Bill "quotation, please" S.

{rest relegated to the bike path...}

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Your Freudian slips aside, the 'other side' is the side that wants to
relegate bicycles to bike lanes, bike paths, etc. The side Trek, in
their quest to sell more bikes, is supporting.

My Trek Portland is quite suited for actual roads, and it proves
itself every workday morning.

Bike lanes? Roads? Whatever works for the individual riding the bike.

More bikes = better. Always!

Amen, brother!

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

"Bonehenge (B A R R Y)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ozark Bicycle said:

Your Freudian slips aside, the 'other side' is the side that wants to
relegate bicycles to bike lanes, bike paths, etc. The side Trek, in
their quest to sell more bikes, is supporting.

My Trek Portland is quite suited for actual roads, and it proves
itself every workday morning.

Bike lanes? Roads? Whatever works for the individual riding the bike.

More bikes = better. Always!

Ozark Bicycle said:

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

At any rate, I think another point of view deserved an airing. With a
greedy corporate juggernaut such as Trek beating the drums for the
'other side', I think these guys need all the exposure they can get.

Quoted message said:

Could you, please, provide a definition of what this "other side" is, and
what makes it so evil?

Did I mention "evil"? Perhaps you have something on your mind?

Your Freudian slips aside, the 'other side' is the side that wants to
relegate bicycles to bike lanes, bike paths, etc. The side Trek, in
their quest to sell more bikes, is supporting. The side that, in the
long run, works against the use of bicycles as legitimate means of
transportation.

As opposed to this:

http://www.labreform/BFC.html

FWIW, i just biked past TREK's main plant in Waterloo, WI this past
Aug. 26. I saw no reserved bike lanes or bike paths. The plant is
located on WI Rte. 19, which has some extra width and is a good bike
riding road. But if TREK has the views you attribute to it, it's been
singularly unsuccessful in its own home town.

Quoted message said:

FWIW, i just biked past TREK's main plant in Waterloo, WI this past
Aug. 26. I saw no reserved bike lanes or bike paths. The plant is
located on WI Rte. 19, which has some extra width and is a good bike
riding road. But if TREK has the views you attribute to it, it's been
singularly unsuccessful in its own home town.

Interesting point! Route 19 never bothered me much because it does, as you
note, have a pretty wide shoulder. But near as I recall it's not indicated
as a bike route, or marked as such. Not sure about the town itself. I'll
forward this to the relevant person at Trek and see what she has to say.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

"Ron Wallenfang" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ozark Bicycle said:

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

> At any rate, I think another point of view deserved an airing. With a
> greedy corporate juggernaut such as Trek beating the drums for the
> 'other side', I think these guys need all the exposure they can get.

Quoted message said:

Could you, please, provide a definition of what this "other side" is,
and
what makes it so evil?

Did I mention "evil"? Perhaps you have something on your mind?

Your Freudian slips aside, the 'other side' is the side that wants to
relegate bicycles to bike lanes, bike paths, etc. The side Trek, in
their quest to sell more bikes, is supporting. The side that, in the
long run, works against the use of bicycles as legitimate means of
transportation.

As opposed to this:

http://www.labreform/BFC.html

FWIW, i just biked past TREK's main plant in Waterloo, WI this past
Aug. 26. I saw no reserved bike lanes or bike paths. The plant is
located on WI Rte. 19, which has some extra width and is a good bike
riding road. But if TREK has the views you attribute to it, it's been
singularly unsuccessful in its own home town.

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Interesting point! Route 19 never bothered me much because it does, as you
note, have a pretty wide shoulder. But near as I recall it's not indicated
as a bike route, or marked as such.

Did you get to join the giant (sorry, not wrong word. <G> , REALLY
BIG) Lime ride at Trekworld?

landotter said:

On Sep 7, 4:58 pm, Ozark Bicycle

Quoted message said:

On Sep 7, 3:49 pm, vey <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Ozark Bicycle wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> As opposed to this:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> http://www.labreform/BFC.html

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Maybe that site is off line?

Quoted message said:

Mea culpa!

Quoted message said:

http://www.labreform.org/BFC.html

I agree with them to a point. Back in Gothenburg we have dedicated
bicycle roads completely separated from traffic with their own lights--
they're incredible. Of course you're free to use the roadway as well.

That's part of the potential problem, IMO. The US mentality often
becomes: "Use the bike path, get off the road" in places with such
facilities. I have encountered this myself, including an incident with
a police officer years ago.

IMHO, the best approach is to make cycling accepted as a normal,
mainstream form of transportation and recreation, always recognizing
the cyclists have the same rights and *responsibilities* as do
motorists.

Quoted message said:

My neighborhood here has cycle lanes on a couple major routes, and
they're there simply because there was enough room to paint them. They
were done well. Cycling is up hundredfolds here on the east bank of
the holler, probably due to folks seeing my magnificent bod hauling
dog food in an ancient Timbuk2 bag.

To be honest, I'm more worried about the local evening peloton of
yuppies that fly through stop signs en masse, even when they don't
have the right-of-way. I'm thinking thumbtacks. Beautiful thumbtacks--
even more badass than the pump scene in Breaking Away. Damn Townies.

That's a matter of educating the cyclists and enforcing laws, is it
not?

Monday, I was riding with a friend, when a group of 15-20 riders were
going the other way. They were riding 2-3 abreast, taking the entire
lane of a two lane road. Traffic was backing up behind them and they
were not yielding an inch. Totally irresponsible. And then they wonder
why motorists get hostile.

Ozark Bicycle said:

Monday, I was riding with a friend, when a group of 15-20 riders were
going the other way. They were riding 2-3 abreast, taking the entire
lane of a two lane road. Traffic was backing up behind them and they
were not yielding an inch. Totally irresponsible. And then they wonder
why motorists get hostile.

Yeah, sounds like the yupeloton. I've yelled at them a couple times
before, "hey man, yield to the car" and such and basically gotten,
"It's none of your [censored]' business" or just an FU--and I've tried to
explain that when they change motorists perception of bicyclists into
adversaries--that's something that affects me personally. Thus, I'm
thinking thumbtacks and a snarky phrase uttered in Italian, probably
about their mother--but I might go extra patty with cheese, which
would be to insult their entire ancestral tree before I deploy the
IED.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Interesting point! Route 19 never bothered me much because it does, as you
note, have a pretty wide shoulder. But near as I recall it's not indicated
as a bike route, or marked as such.

Did you get to join the giant (sorry, not wrong word. <G> , REALLY
BIG) Lime ride at Trekworld?

That was pretty wild. Never seen so many (identical) bikes built up at one
time. I went to the first show, so we had great weather, and the ride was a
lot of fun. The folk in the second group (2 days later) got nailed by nasty,
cold rain. They didn't get quite the experience we did!

The effect was perfect though. Bicycles to be used for everyday
transportation, instead of bussing people the 3-4 miles out to where things
were being held that evening. Lots of fun afterward to, cruising through
downtown Madison (the bikes had front & rear lights on them). Quite the
scene.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

The effect was perfect though. Bicycles to be used for everyday
transportation, instead of bussing people the 3-4 miles out to where things
were being held that evening. Lots of fun afterward to, cruising through
downtown Madison (the bikes had front & rear lights on them). Quite the
scene.

I heard some of the BMX-able riders were doing some interesting moves
on them, as well. <G>

See that? Limes on the road, not the path...

After All This I STILL NEED HELP....
Back to my original question.
Trek Lime or Trek Pure Sport or Electra Townie 21.
I want this bike for exercise. Haven't been on a bike for 20 years.
Enjoyed going 15-20 miles then. Looking for comfort and stability..so
the flat foot concept appeals to me. Is the three speed of the Lime so
limiting that I should only look at the Trek Pure Sport and the
Electra Townie 21???

Spechs for Trek Pure Sport..and geometry:
http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/2008/bike_path/pure/puresport/

Spechs of Electra Townie 21:
http://www.electrabike.com/townie/

Spechs of Trek LIme and geometry:

http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/2008/bike_path/lime/lime/

In article <[email hidden]>,

jim said:

After All This I STILL NEED HELP....
Back to my original question.
Trek Lime or Trek Pure Sport or Electra Townie 21.
I want this bike for exercise. Haven't been on a bike for 20 years.
Enjoyed going 15-20 miles then. Looking for comfort and stability..so
the flat foot concept appeals to me.

A '70's Bike-Boom Sekine or Apollo will fill your bill then.

The flat saddles that came on those were good enough, and
much more comfy than the contoured manifestations of evil
proffered today.

Stem shifters are easy. Using them makes your steering
squiggle a very little, but so what?

Those ol' lugged frames are beauties.

Parts are still available, and thrifty. Even
27" wheels. I /do/ love the Suzue one-piece,
wide-flanged hubs of the latter-day era.
I'm also becoming enamoured with /steel/ curly
drop bars. Those things cry out for brown
organic tape.

I believe what you picture, and therefore desire,
is a '60s or '70s "10-speed". If so, I encourage
you to follow that dream. Those generally were
good bikes. Getting back onto one of those might
be a Blast From the Past for ya, and you'll be
pleasantly, nostalgically ... you know. I know.
I've been there myself.

Get yourself a $20 or $40 Apollo or Sekine or Schwinn
or whatever you remember, from a thrift shop or whatever.
There are lots of 'em around. Ride it around, have fun,
and let it remind you of where you came from, and what
from your past made you what you are today. That's how
I enjoy riding, myself. Riding in my advanced years
keeps me in touch with my less-advanced years :-)

The old cruiser-style balloon-tired bikes with
curvy, cantilevered, dual top-tubes have regained
some popularity. I must say, whitewalls /do/
look smart.

You have all kinds of options at your avail.

Only /you/ can choose for yourself. But I intuit
you're looking for a bike similar to something from
your past, and I assure you -- that, or something
like it, is still around.

Older bikes are not necessarily junk.

And I reiterate -- those ol' cross-hatched pleather
flat saddles on the 70's Bike Boom bikes are
wonderful. Especially if you luck-out and get one
with the chromed coil springs in the rear (and they're
not too squeaky.)

cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca