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Silly BBC appeal to cyclists

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01 / Original postSilly BBC appeal to cyclistsspindrift · 14 Sep 2007 02 / This pagePosts 1–15Page 1 of 1 · chronological order 03 / Latest replyPost #15Email address hidden · 18 Sep 2007

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UK and Europe
Published
14 September 2007
Last activity
18 September 2007
Original author
spindrift
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15
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  1. Original post
    spindrift
    Archived post
    #1

    What's the worst place to cycle?

    How could things be improved? Do you know of any ludicrous cycle
    lanes?

    Or, maybe you hate cyclists and think they just make things worse for
    all road users.

    If you've got stories or pictures of cyclists behaving badly we want
    to hear from you.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/london/content/articles/2007/09/13/cycling_feature.shtml

    Sensible reply, from the Guardian Cycling Thread:

    My two cent's worth . . . Later I may also send a couple of photos of
    people parked in cycle lanes.

    I can't believe how negatively you've couched the introduction to
    this.

    So cyclists only encounter problems and you want to hear stories about
    cyclists behaving badly? Are you not interested in the possibility
    that many of us find our daily commute by bicycle the highlight of the
    day? It's quicker, healthier and far less frustrating than using
    public transport.

    I do hope this is not yet another attempt to garner sensational copy
    by tapping into the tensions that do unfortunately exist between
    motorists, cyclists and pedestrians.

    You have the opportunity to do something positive about the situation
    - despite this rather negative start.

    Report
  2. Haggis McMutton
    Archived post
    #2
    spindrift said:

    How could things be improved? Do you know of any ludicrous cycle
    lanes?

    Or, maybe you hate cyclists and think they just make things worse for
    all road users.

    There are bad cyclists. There are bad motorists.

    As a motorist I've seen completely idiotic cycling. As a cyclist I've seen
    idiotic driving.

    But idiotic driving is something I see on a daily basis, whereas idiotic
    cycling is something I see very occasionally.

    Report
  3. Peter Clinch
    Archived post
    #3
    Haggis McMutton said:
    spindrift said:

    How could things be improved? Do you know of any ludicrous cycle
    lanes?

    Or, maybe you hate cyclists and think they just make things worse for
    all road users.

    There are bad cyclists. There are bad motorists.

    As a motorist I've seen completely idiotic cycling. As a cyclist I've seen
    idiotic driving.

    But idiotic driving is something I see on a daily basis, whereas idiotic
    cycling is something I see very occasionally.

    But OTOH idiotic driving is drawn from a much bigger sample base, so
    you'd expect to see more of it in the UK simply because there are more
    cars about than bikes. It would be interesting to see if both sets of
    morons had a similar distribution within their respective populations.

    But OTOOH I often see idiotic driving that puts numerous lives in
    considerable danger for a single incident. This often involves madmen
    in overtaking manoeuvres on the A9...

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
    Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

    Report
  4. Dylan Smith
    Archived post
    #4
    Haggis McMutton said:
    spindrift said:

    How could things be improved? Do you know of any ludicrous cycle
    lanes?

    Or, maybe you hate cyclists and think they just make things worse for
    all road users.

    There are bad cyclists. There are bad motorists.

    I don't think so - in the main there are just bad road users. An asshat
    on a bike is probably also an asshat when driving a car, and vice versa.
    The relevant distinction isn't really cyclist or motorist, it's really
    asshat or non-asshat.

    --
    Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.
    Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de

    Report
  5. Matt B
    Archived post
    #5
    Haggis McMutton said:
    spindrift said:

    How could things be improved? Do you know of any ludicrous cycle
    lanes?

    Or, maybe you hate cyclists and think they just make things worse for
    all road users.

    There are bad cyclists. There are bad motorists.

    It's possibly down one level further than that - at the person level. A
    good "person" (in terms of road use skills) would probably make a good
    cyclist and/or a good motorist.

    The questions are:
    1) What makes a good road user?
    2) How can we turn bad road users into good road users?
    3) Can we provide a road environment which will safely accommodate, and
    tolerate, bad users?
    4) Even, is it not so much bad users, but bad roads making bad users
    that are the problem?

    Quoted message said:

    As a motorist I've seen completely idiotic cycling. As a cyclist I've seen
    idiotic driving.

    And as a motorist seen idiotic driving, and as a cyclist seen idiotic
    cycling?

    Quoted message said:

    But idiotic driving is something I see on a daily basis, whereas idiotic
    cycling is something I see very occasionally.

    Perhaps you need to divide those by the total number of each type you
    see - to get a more representative number.

    --
    Matt B

    Report
  6. spindrift
    Archived post
    #6
    Dylan Smith said:
    Haggis McMutton said:
    spindrift said:

    How could things be improved? Do you know of any ludicrous cycle
    lanes?

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Or, maybe you hate cyclists and think they just make things worse for
    all road users.

    Quoted message said:

    There are bad cyclists. There are bad motorists.

    I don't think so - in the main there are just bad road users. An asshat
    on a bike is probably also an asshat when driving a car, and vice versa.
    The relevant distinction isn't really cyclist or motorist, it's really
    asshat or non-asshat.

    --
    Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.
    Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute:http://oolite-linux.berlios.de

    The BBC have apologised and are changing their wording.

    Report
  7. Email address hidden
    Archived post
    #7
    Matt B said:

    The questions are:
    1) What makes a good road user?

    Consideration for other traffic?

    Quoted message said:

    2) How can we turn bad road users into good road users?

    Education, enforcement, encouragement.

    We could do with a bigger carrot.

    Quoted message said:

    3) Can we provide a road environment which will safely accommodate, and
    tolerate, bad users

    Arguably, we have.

    Quoted message said:

    4) Even, is it not so much bad users, but bad roads making bad users
    that are the problem?

    No.

    Quoted message said:

    Perhaps you need to divide those by the total number of each type you
    see - to get a more representative number.

    I wonder when the number of "motorists" on UK roads exceeded the
    number of "cyclists" (quotes intended to divert the pedantic from
    arguments about number of cars vs number of road-miles vs time spent
    traveling etc).
    This might mark a significant turning point in the Decline Of
    Society :-).

    Cheers,
    W.

    Report
  8. Mike Sales
    Archived post
    #8

    "Dylan Smith" wrote >> There are bad cyclists. There are bad motorists.

    Quoted message said:


    I don't think so - in the main there are just bad road users. An asshat
    on a bike is probably also an asshat when driving a car, and vice versa.
    The relevant distinction isn't really cyclist or motorist, it's really
    asshat or non-asshat.


    I know which I would prefer to meet on the road, and so find the distinction
    important.

    Mike Sales

    Report
  9. CoyoteBoy
    Archived post
    #9

    I sent them a 2 page reply. It will likely be ignored but I invited
    them to come here and discuss it further.

    Report
  10. Simon Brooke
    Archived post
    #10

    in message <[email hidden]>, Haggis McMutton

    (') said:
    spindrift said:

    How could things be improved? Do you know of any ludicrous cycle
    lanes?

    Or, maybe you hate cyclists and think they just make things worse for
    all road users.

    There are bad cyclists. There are bad motorists.

    As a motorist I've seen completely idiotic cycling. As a cyclist I've
    seen idiotic driving.

    But idiotic driving is something I see on a daily basis, whereas idiotic
    cycling is something I see very occasionally.

    The reason for this is simple: idiotic cycling kills the cyclist. Idiotic
    driving kills the cyclist.

    And the pedestrian, of course.

    --
    [email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

    ;; Good grief, I can remember when England won the Ashes.

    Report
  11. Tony Raven
    Archived post
    #11

    spindrift <[email hidden]> wrote in news:1189777924.105496.22670
    @w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com:

    Quoted message said:


    The BBC have apologised and are changing their wording.

    Well....errr...they changed "Maybe you hate cyclists" to "Maybe your
    experiences of cyclists is negative" and that's all.

    --
    Tony

    " I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
    Bertrand Russell

    Report
  12. spindrift
    Archived post
    #12

    "Well....errr...they changed "Maybe you hate cyclists" to "Maybe your
    experiences of cyclists is negative" and that's all. "

    [censored] bum clowns.

    Report
  13. Roger Merriman
    Archived post
    #13
    Peter Clinch said:
    Haggis McMutton said:
    spindrift said:

    How could things be improved? Do you know of any ludicrous cycle
    lanes?

    Or, maybe you hate cyclists and think they just make things worse for
    all road users.

    There are bad cyclists. There are bad motorists.

    As a motorist I've seen completely idiotic cycling. As a cyclist I've seen
    idiotic driving.

    But idiotic driving is something I see on a daily basis, whereas idiotic
    cycling is something I see very occasionally.

    But OTOH idiotic driving is drawn from a much bigger sample base, so
    you'd expect to see more of it in the UK simply because there are more
    cars about than bikes. It would be interesting to see if both sets of
    morons had a similar distribution within their respective populations.

    But OTOOH I often see idiotic driving that puts numerous lives in
    considerable danger for a single incident. This often involves madmen
    in overtaking manoeuvres on the A9...

    Pete.

    yes thats the point really, it would take some timing to attaully kill
    others with a bike, while with a car, it's mass means that it's not hard
    at all.

    so for instance the bloke i saw a while back riding the wrong way along
    the bus lane, is unlikely to harm any one but him self. what he's doing
    is just as wrong as say tailgating but, the chances are he will not kill
    any one doing that.

    roger
    --
    www.rogermerriman.com

    Report
  14. Mark
    Archived post
    #14
    Matt B said:
    Haggis McMutton said:
    spindrift said:

    How could things be improved? Do you know of any ludicrous cycle
    lanes?

    Or, maybe you hate cyclists and think they just make things worse for
    all road users.

    There are bad cyclists. There are bad motorists.

    It's possibly down one level further than that - at the person level. A
    good "person" (in terms of road use skills) would probably make a good
    cyclist and/or a good motorist.

    The questions are:
    1) What makes a good road user?

    Considerate, consciencious, non agressive, observant, experienced,
    alert ....

    Quoted message said:

    2) How can we turn bad road users into good road users?

    I'm sure some can be with suitable education. I feel strongly that
    one's attidute is the main indicator for safety of a road user. I
    doubt very much a user with an agressive, selfish attidude would ever
    become a 'good' user.

    Quoted message said:

    3) Can we provide a road environment which will safely accommodate, and
    tolerate, bad users?

    I don't believe this is possible or even desirable. Creating such
    environment could lead to a greater overall level of danger. For
    example we don't want to change the behaviour of safe users and it
    would be unlikely that any scheme would avoid this.

    Quoted message said:

    4) Even, is it not so much bad users, but bad roads making bad users
    that are the problem?

    I don't believe so (see above).

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    As a motorist I've seen completely idiotic cycling. As a cyclist I've seen
    idiotic driving.

    And as a motorist seen idiotic driving, and as a cyclist seen idiotic
    cycling?

    Quoted message said:

    But idiotic driving is something I see on a daily basis, whereas idiotic
    cycling is something I see very occasionally.

    Perhaps you need to divide those by the total number of each type you
    see - to get a more representative number.

    An idiotic car/van driver can do a lot more damage than an idiotic
    cyclist IMHO.

    M

    Report
  15. Email address hidden
    Archived post
    #15

    On Sep 14, 9:19 am, spindrift <[email hidden]> wrote:
    [snip]

    Quoted message said:

    If you've got stories or pictures of cyclists behaving badly we want
    to hear from you.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/london/content/articles/2007/09/13/cycling_featu...

    I sent in something upbeat and positive and got a call back from a
    researcher asking if I could give an on air contribution (some kind of
    pre-screened call affair). I am in a meeting tomorrow but they said
    they would read out the email on the Nanessa Feltz show (BBC London
    94.9 9-1200 tomorrow, lots of cycling discussion throughout show)

    I guess it will appear on on listen again (possibly here
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/london/content/articles/2005/07/21/ondemand_feature.shtml
    ) for any fans of low quality talk radio :-)

    best wishes
    james

    Report

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