Pretty standard kit, 1 1/8 threadless forks, headset pressed onto frame, star-fangled nut an inch or so beneath the fork's rim, the top bolt tightened with a little thread-lock and then the two side bolts.
Don't know if this is a problem or just a niggle, but every 80m or so, there's a definite play from the headset (maybe a mm, or close to two) that's noticeable forwards and backwards in-line with the top-tube (when pinching the top-collar and rocking the bike back and forth on the brake). Maybe it's nothing to worry about - although it seems quite pronounced. The encouraging bit is, if I trap the front wheel between my feet and try and twist the bars they wont budge - which seems like the important bit.
Tightening it all up makes it better, but only for another 80m or so.
A common characteristic, or something I should let an LBS take a quick squiz at?
Don't know if this is a problem or just a niggle, but every 80m or so, there's a definite play from the headset (maybe a mm, or close to two) that's noticeable forwards and backwards in-line with the top-tube (when pinching the top-collar and rocking the bike back and forth on the brake). Maybe it's nothing to worry about - although it seems quite pronounced.
I'd worry if it were rocking that much. 1 or 2 mm is quite a lot IMHO.
The encouraging bit is, if I trap the front wheel
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between my feet and try and twist the bars they wont budge - which seems like the important bit.
Well, your bars aren't about to fall off but lack of twisting doesn't mean the headset isn't too loose.
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Tightening it all up makes it better, but only for another 80m or so.
Hmm
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A common characteristic, or something I should let an LBS take a quick squiz at?
Not common. If you can't work it out I'd say the squiz is a good idea.
Pretty standard kit, 1 1/8 threadless forks, headset pressed onto frame, star-fangled nut an inch or so beneath the fork's rim, the top bolt tightened with a little thread-lock and then the two side bolts.
I think that you misunderstand how the threadless nut system works. You should not be using thread lock on the top bolt, this is only used to initially tension the cones, before the two side bolts clamp the handle bars on.
You should not keep just tightening the side-bolts, this could cause you to strip a thread.
You need to loosen the side bolts, tighten the top bolt a nudge, then tighten the side bolts again and see what happens.
Don't know if this is a problem or just a niggle, but every 80m or so, there's a definite play from the headset (maybe a mm, or close to two) that's noticeable forwards and backwards in-line with the top-tube (when pinching the top-collar and rocking the bike back and forth on the brake).
[snipped]
It shouldn't be doing this; I'd get it checked if you're not confident yourself. Is the headset free running after it's been tightened? If it seems to be a little tight I'd be looking for poorly fitted / damaged / mismatched components. All sorts of things could have caused this - loose fork crown race, badly fitted head cups, even a bearing race fitted upside down (although you'd probably have been a bit more aware of that one!)
Pretty standard kit, 1 1/8 threadless forks, headset pressed onto frame, star-fangled nut an inch or so beneath the fork's rim, the top bolt tightened with a little thread-lock and then the two side bolts.
I think that you misunderstand how the threadless nut system works. You should not be using thread lock on the top bolt, this is only used to initially tension the cones, before the two side bolts clamp the handle bars on.
You should not keep just tightening the side-bolts, this could cause you to strip a thread.
You need to loosen the side bolts, tighten the top bolt a nudge, then tighten the side bolts again and see what happens.
That's okay, that's what I've been doing - just thought the thread-loc couldn't hurt as well, as I'm already having trouble in that area anyway. I'll try it once more without now...
Pretty standard kit, 1 1/8 threadless forks, headset pressed onto frame, star-fangled nut an inch or so beneath the fork's rim, the top bolt tightened with a little thread-lock and then the two side bolts.
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I think that you misunderstand how the threadless nut system works. You should not be using thread lock on the top bolt, this is only used to initially tension the cones, before the two side bolts clamp the handle bars on.
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You should not keep just tightening the side-bolts, this could cause you to strip a thread.
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You need to loosen the side bolts, tighten the top bolt a nudge, then tighten the side bolts again and see what happens.
That's okay, that's what I've been doing - just thought the thread-loc couldn't hurt as well, as I'm already having trouble in that area anyway. I'll try it once more without now...
Based on how aheadsets work, your description doesn't make much sense to me. Try to work out what is actually working loose.
Don't know if this is a problem or just a niggle, but every 80m or so, there's a definite play from the headset (maybe a mm, or close to two) that's noticeable forwards and backwards in-line with the top-tube (when pinching the top-collar and rocking the bike back and forth on the brake).
[snipped]
It shouldn't be doing this; I'd get it checked if you're not confident yourself. Is the headset free running after it's been tightened? If it seems to be a little tight I'd be looking for poorly fitted / damaged / mismatched components. All sorts of things could have caused this - loose fork crown race, badly fitted head cups, even a bearing race fitted upside down (although you'd probably have been a bit more aware of that one!)
-- Simon
Not too tight no, just loose between the two halfs of the top collar. Head cup fitting could've been an issue - it was a new frame and headset and took the LBS only a couple of minutes to fit - is that enough to ream and face properly, etc.?
I think that you misunderstand how the threadless nut system works. You should not be using thread lock on the top bolt, this is only used to initially tension the cones, before the two side bolts clamp the handle bars on.
That's okay, that's what I've been doing - just thought the thread-loc couldn't hurt as well, as I'm already having trouble in that area anyway. I'll try it once more without now...
The thread lock simply isn't relevant - not using it won't help you any more than using it has. As Martin's pointed out, it's the two side bolts that lock the headset. If the headset's coming loose without those two side bolts being tightened, there's something wrong with the headset assembly itself, the head tube or the forks - not the headset adjustment mechanism.
Pretty standard kit, 1 1/8 threadless forks, headset pressed onto frame, star-fangled nut an inch or so beneath the fork's rim, the top bolt tightened with a little thread-lock and then the two side bolts.
I think that you misunderstand how the threadless nut system works. You should not be using thread lock on the top bolt, this is only used to initially tension the cones, before the two side bolts clamp the handle bars on.
You should not keep just tightening the side-bolts, this could cause you to strip a thread.
You need to loosen the side bolts, tighten the top bolt a nudge, then tighten the side bolts again and see what happens.
That's okay, that's what I've been doing - just thought the thread-loc couldn't hurt as well, as I'm already having trouble in that area anyway. I'll try it once more without now...
If you have just stripped this down, and reassembled it, it could just be components getting into place, and grease moving out the way.
When I reassembled a headset earlier this year I had similar symptoms. In the end I left it with the top bolt over tightened for a week, then adjusted it, and it worked first time. (This is no good though if you need the bike tomorrow).
On Sep 15, 11:12 pm, Simon D <[email hidden]> wrote:
Not too tight no, just loose between the two halfs of the top collar. Head cup fitting could've been an issue - it was a new frame and headset and took the LBS only a couple of minutes to fit - is that enough to ream and face properly, etc.?
I'd be suspicious of that. No, two minutes isn't enough to ream and face a head tube, but then very few shops routinely do this anyway. However, the cups should at least be pressed in properly, and I'd barely be able to fix the tool into place in two minutes!
On Sep 15, 11:28 pm, "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]>
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Duncan Smith said:
On Sep 15, 11:06 pm, Martin Dann <[email hidden]> wrote:
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Duncan Smith wrote: > Pretty standard kit, 1 1/8 threadless forks, headset pressed onto > frame, star-fangled nut an inch or so beneath the fork's rim, the top > bolt tightened with a little thread-lock and then the two side bolts.
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I think that you misunderstand how the threadless nut system works. You should not be using thread lock on the top bolt, this is only used to initially tension the cones, before the two side bolts clamp the handle bars on.
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You should not keep just tightening the side-bolts, this could cause you to strip a thread.
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You need to loosen the side bolts, tighten the top bolt a nudge, then tighten the side bolts again and see what happens.
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That's okay, that's what I've been doing - just thought the thread-loc couldn't hurt as well, as I'm already having trouble in that area anyway. I'll try it once more without now...
Based on how aheadsets work, your description doesn't make much sense to me. Try to work out what is actually working loose.
James
Sorry - not a good description. I'll try again:
First I tighten the binder bolt through the top cap to compress the top collar and then tighten the pinch bolts on the stem.
The bit that says 'Smoothie Regular' in the above picture still slips and slides about a bit in relation to the rest of the headset - I'll keep an eye on it for another week and let the LBS have a go,
On Sep 15, 11:28 pm, "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]>
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On Sep 16, 7:16 am, Duncan Smith <[email hidden]> wrote:
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On Sep 15, 11:06 pm, Martin Dann <[email hidden]> wrote:
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> Duncan Smith wrote: > > Pretty standard kit, 1 1/8 threadless forks, headset pressed onto > > frame, star-fangled nut an inch or so beneath the fork's rim, the top > > bolt tightened with a little thread-lock and then the two side bolts.
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> I think that you misunderstand how the threadless nut > system works. You should not be using thread lock on the > top bolt, this is only used to initially tension the > cones, before the two side bolts clamp the handle bars on.
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> You should not keep just tightening the side-bolts, this > could cause you to strip a thread.
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> You need to loosen the side bolts, tighten the top bolt a > nudge, then tighten the side bolts again and see what happens.
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That's okay, that's what I've been doing - just thought the thread-loc couldn't hurt as well, as I'm already having trouble in that area anyway. I'll try it once more without now...
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Based on how aheadsets work, your description doesn't make much sense to me. Try to work out what is actually working loose.
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James
Sorry - not a good description. I'll try again:
First I tighten the binder bolt through the top cap to compress the top collar and then tighten the pinch bolts on the stem.
The bit that says 'Smoothie Regular' in the above picture still slips and slides about a bit in relation to the rest of the headset - I'll keep an eye on it for another week and let the LBS have a go,
Well it's possible you are using some [censored] masquerading as an adequately built bicycle component :-)
But it's still not clear what is actually working loose. If the stem is not slipping, and your top cap is pressing on it (ie the steerer tube is not too long) then repeated re-tightening must be shifting something. Is the headset firmly pressed into the head tube of the frame?
The bit that says 'Smoothie Regular' in the above picture still slips and slides about a bit in relation to the rest of the headset - I'll keep an eye on it for another week and let the LBS have a go,
Still not quite clear where the movement is, but it does sound as if maybe the compression ring isn't working properly.
Don't know if this is a problem or just a niggle, but every 80m or so, there's a definite play from the headset (maybe a mm, or close to two) that's noticeable forwards and backwards in-line with the top-tube (when pinching the top-collar and rocking the bike back and forth on the brake).
[snipped]
It shouldn't be doing this; I'd get it checked if you're not confident yourself. Is the headset free running after it's been tightened? If it seems to be a little tight I'd be looking for poorly fitted / damaged / mismatched components. All sorts of things could have caused this - loose fork crown race, badly fitted head cups, even a bearing race fitted upside down (although you'd probably have been a bit more aware of that one!)
-- Simon
Not too tight no, just loose between the two halfs of the top collar. Head cup fitting could've been an issue - it was a new frame and headset and took the LBS only a couple of minutes to fit - is that enough to ream and face properly, etc.?
No 2 minutes isn't long enough for that.
I'd suggest that in the light of this that maybe the head faces might be not parallel or that the races haven't been pressed into place fully. Maybe it's the components simply working a into place where they should have been pressed.
How long has the slipping being going on? How many times has it occurred? If it's been for more than, say, 10 miles and/or more than 3 or 4 times it's occurred then something strange is happening and someone competent needs to look at the assembly critically.
-- Paul - [censored] ebay 140158061971 140157345402
Don't know if this is a problem or just a niggle, but every 80m or so, there's a definite play from the headset (maybe a mm, or close to two) that's noticeable forwards and backwards in-line with the top-tube (when pinching the top-collar and rocking the bike back and forth on the brake).
[snipped]
It shouldn't be doing this; I'd get it checked if you're not confident yourself. Is the headset free running after it's been tightened? If it seems to be a little tight I'd be looking for poorly fitted / damaged / mismatched components. All sorts of things could have caused this - loose fork crown race, badly fitted head cups, even a bearing race fitted upside down (although you'd probably have been a bit more aware of that one!)
'Twas fork crown race for me. Whatever anyone tells you about tapping them on with a hammer, don't believe it. Get a good fit copper or aluminium tube and smack the [censored] down until it's a good fit.
I found the 'tapping around' method leaves it slightly '\', and this rocks as you steer and the whole thing develops play.
Just my tuppence worth. Although I did tap on the head cups, I must get a press sorted out for that job. But otoh, it's not something I do often.
Don't know if this is a problem or just a niggle, but every 80m or so, there's a definite play from the headset (maybe a mm, or close to two) that's noticeable forwards and backwards in-line with the top-tube (when pinching the top-collar and rocking the bike back and forth on the brake).
[snipped]
It shouldn't be doing this; I'd get it checked if you're not confident yourself. Is the headset free running after it's been tightened? If it seems to be a little tight I'd be looking for poorly fitted / damaged / mismatched components. All sorts of things could have caused this - loose fork crown race, badly fitted head cups, even a bearing race fitted upside down (although you'd probably have been a bit more aware of that one!)
'Twas fork crown race for me. Whatever anyone tells you about tapping them on with a hammer, don't believe it. Get a good fit copper or aluminium tube and smack the [censored] down until it's a good fit.
I found the 'tapping around' method leaves it slightly '\', and this rocks as you steer and the whole thing develops play.
Just my tuppence worth. Although I did tap on the head cups, I must get a press sorted out for that job. But otoh, it's not something I do often.
Inclined to agree but be wary of off-centre clobbering lol. Best method I've found is getting the other half to hold two blocks of wood in the vice jaws and putting the head tube and race into the space, lining them up nicely and slowly cranking the vice in - puts them in nice and smooth and parallel. If no vice handy I have used a long bolt and two thick steel plates with holes in and a bit of cloth for paint protection .
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