Brutal honesty...

"Scott Hendricks" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

from bike.com, "American Cycling and Division III: Time For A Change? Opinion Mixed As To Whether
The TT3 Designation Works In The US "

"Half the roster can be over the age cutoff. If you're 28 and can't make that half of one of the
Division III rosters, then maybe it's time to start thinking about doing something else," opines
Sportsbook.com director Bill Laudien. "I mean, if you are 28 and you can get on a roster,
terrific. If you get signed, you deserve it and you are most likely a tremendous asset to your
team. But, if you can't make the top half of the roster of some of these lower-budget teams, then
I suspect that you're probably not very good and probably not going to get much better.....If the
rule means that a 30-year old guy with marginal talent is forced to stop living out of his car and
begging for bike parts, then the rule is not unfair- it's an act of mercy. One of my riders from
this year, Matt Svatek, might be the only exception. If guys want to take issue with me over that,
then they are free to prove me wrong. Go pull a Scott Price or Drew Miller and race as an amateur,
beat the [censored] out a bunch of pros, and get yourself a contract in 2005. There is nothing more I
like to see than the underdog succeed."

I wonder if the 'over 27' guys have tried the approach of bringing along a younger rider at
little/no support to meet the 50/50 ratio rule? It seems that the top Euro riders bring along
siblings/friends/former teammates all the time when they negotiate contracts.

Oh, yea, that comment about an act of mercy, priceless!

Laudien needs to try that logic out on Bostick...

Andy Coggan

Quoted message said:

"Scott Hendricks" <[email hidden]>

I wonder if the 'over 27' guys have tried the approach of bringing

Quoted message said:

along a younger rider at little/no support to meet the 50/50 ratio rule? It seems that the top
Euro riders bring along siblings/friends/former teammates all the time when they negotiate
contracts.

What really gets me is the complaint about there not being enough good young racers to fill the
slots, so we ghost in people who don't race and whine that they should be given to older racers.
Where the hell are the good new pro racers supposed to come from and who are they supposed to learn
from if they aren't paired with older experienced racers. Seems like more short sighted, "Me
First", "It's all about ME", selfishness that a lot of roadies are nototrious for. Bill C

"Andy Coggan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Scott Hendricks" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

from bike.com, "American Cycling and Division III: Time For A

Change?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Opinion Mixed As To Whether The TT3 Designation Works In The US "

"Half the roster can be over the age cutoff. If you're 28 and

can't

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

make that half of one of the Division III rosters, then maybe it's time to start thinking about
doing something else," opines Sportsbook.com director Bill Laudien. "I mean, if you are 28 and

you

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

can get on a roster, terrific. If you get signed, you deserve it

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

you are most likely a tremendous asset to your team. But, if you

can't

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

make the top half of the roster of some of these lower-budget

teams,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

then I suspect that you're probably not very good and probably not going to get much
better.....If the rule means that a 30-year old

guy

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

with marginal talent is forced to stop living out of his car and begging for bike parts, then
the rule is not unfair- it's an act

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

mercy. One of my riders from this year, Matt Svatek, might be the

only

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

exception. If guys want to take issue with me over that, then they

are

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

free to prove me wrong. Go pull a Scott Price or Drew Miller and

race

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

as an amateur, beat the [censored] out a bunch of pros, and get yourself

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

contract in 2005. There is nothing more I like to see than the underdog succeed."

I wonder if the 'over 27' guys have tried the approach of bringing along a younger rider at
little/no support to meet the 50/50 ratio rule? It seems that the top Euro riders bring along
siblings/friends/former teammates all the time when they negotiate contracts.

Oh, yea, that comment about an act of mercy, priceless!

Laudien needs to try that logic out on Bostick...

Or himself.

"TritonRider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Scott Hendricks" <[email hidden]>

I wonder if the 'over 27' guys have tried the approach of bringing

Quoted message said:

along a younger rider at little/no support to meet the 50/50 ratio rule? It seems that the top
Euro riders bring along siblings/friends/former teammates all the time when they negotiate
contracts.

What really gets me is the complaint about there not being enough

good young

Quoted message said:

racers to fill the slots, so we ghost in people who don't race and

whine that

Quoted message said:

they should be given to older racers. Where the hell are the good

new pro

Quoted message said:

racers supposed to come from and who are they supposed to learn from

if they

Quoted message said:

aren't paired with older experienced racers. Seems like more short

sighted, "Me

Quoted message said:

First", "It's all about ME", selfishness that a lot of roadies are

nototrious

Quoted message said:

for.

I'm thinking - what the hell business is it of yours if some 50 year old guy is kicking your butt on
the circiuts? If you can't take the embarassment stay home.

New riders come from young new riders that can beat the old pros or at least look like they'll be
able to with a little work. The idea that forcing non-existant racers out of juniors is stupid but
leasve to those who prefer something that sounds good to something that works.

Who gave Bostick a hand up?

"Tom Kunich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Laudien needs to try that logic out on Bostick...

Or himself.

Kunich, you're such a total [censored] its almost beyond comprehension.

In that you're obviously too stupid to understand, Laudien's point is as follows: If you haven't
shown that you've got what it takes to be a pro racer by the time that you're 27, chances are
extremely good that you're out of time. Better to have the Div III teams serve as a forum to
bring new potential into the sport, rather than have it be a way for never-was riders to avoid
the real world.

Of course, in addition to being a self defense, gun and nutritional supplements, you're also an
expert about what it takes to be a successful pro racer. Certainly you have much more knowledge than
a guy who's spent the last 12 years of his life organizing and promoting racing, bringing new money
into the sport, and managing armatures and pro teams.

"hold my beer and watch this..." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

rather than have it be a way for never-was riders to avoid the real world.

Dumbass -

Ya. That's what Masters Fattie Racing is for.

Age-graded designations have ruined the sport of cycling. Slicing up the pro ranks into [censored] U23
and under 27 designations is as gay as a $4 bill.

The best cyclists in the world were showing their stuff by the time they were 22, 23. And then you
got guys on the other end of the spectrum like the Jooper and the 38 year old who bunny-hopped in
the finale at Paris-Roubaix telling all you people that these categories are for queers.

birthday constitutes their own personal category. This way, USA Cycling can give out another 39,000
stars & stripes jerseys on top of the 2 million they already give out every year.

There's only one Superbowl champion.

Enjoy your holidays,

Racer X

Scott Hendricks said:

from bike.com, "American Cycling and Division III: Time For A Change? Opinion Mixed As To Whether
The TT3 Designation Works In The US "

"Half the roster can be over the age cutoff. If you're 28 and can't make that half of one of the
Division III rosters, then maybe it's time to start thinking about doing something else," opines
Sportsbook.com director Bill Laudien. "I mean, if you are 28 and you can get on a roster,
terrific. If you get signed, you deserve it and you are most likely a tremendous asset to your
team. But, if you can't make the top half of the roster of some of these lower-budget teams, then
I suspect that you're probably not very good and probably not going to get much better.....If the
rule means that a 30-year old guy with marginal talent is forced to stop living out of his car and
begging for bike parts, then the rule is not unfair- it's an act of mercy. One of my riders from
this year, Matt Svatek, might be the only exception. If guys want to take issue with me over that,
then they are free to prove me wrong. Go pull a Scott Price or Drew Miller and race as an amateur,
beat the [censored] out a bunch of pros, and get yourself a contract in 2005. There is nothing more I
like to see than the underdog succeed."

I wonder if the 'over 27' guys have tried the approach of bringing along a younger rider at
little/no support to meet the 50/50 ratio rule? It seems that the top Euro riders bring along
siblings/friends/former teammates all the time when they negotiate contracts.

Oh, yea, that comment about an act of mercy, priceless!

Scott

"Andy Coggan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Scott Hendricks" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

from bike.com, "American Cycling and Division III: Time For A Change? Opinion Mixed As To
Whether The TT3 Designation Works In The US "

"Half the roster can be over the age cutoff. If you're 28 and can't make that half of one of the
Division III rosters, then maybe it's time to start thinking about doing something else," opines
Sportsbook.com director Bill Laudien. "I mean, if you are 28 and you can get on a roster,
terrific. If you get signed, you deserve it and you are most likely a tremendous asset to your
team. But, if you can't make the top half of the roster of some of these lower-budget teams,
then I suspect that you're probably not very good and probably not going to get much
better.....If the rule means that a 30-year old guy with marginal talent is forced to stop
living out of his car and begging for bike parts, then the rule is not unfair- it's an act of
mercy. One of my riders from this year, Matt Svatek, might be the only exception. If guys want
to take issue with me over that, then they are free to prove me wrong. Go pull a Scott Price or
Drew Miller and race as an amateur, beat the [censored] out a bunch of pros, and get yourself a
contract in 2005. There is nothing more I like to see than the underdog succeed."

I wonder if the 'over 27' guys have tried the approach of bringing along a younger rider at
little/no support to meet the 50/50 ratio rule? It seems that the top Euro riders bring along
siblings/friends/former teammates all the time when they negotiate contracts.

Oh, yea, that comment about an act of mercy, priceless!

Laudien needs to try that logic out on Bostick...

Andy Coggan

Andy,

It's the exception that proves the rule, right?

Scott

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Scott Hendricks
"Andy Coggan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Scott Hendricks" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

from bike.com, "American Cycling and Division III: Time For A Change? Opinion Mixed As To
Whether The TT3 Designation Works In The US "

"Half the roster can be over the age cutoff. If you're 28 and can't make that half of one of the
Division III rosters, then maybe it's time to start thinking about doing something else," opines
Sportsbook.com director Bill Laudien. "I mean, if you are 28 and you can get on a roster,
terrific. If you get signed, you deserve it and you are most likely a tremendous asset to your
team. But, if you can't make the top half of the roster of some of these lower-budget teams,
then I suspect that you're probably not very good and probably not going to get much
better.....If the rule means that a 30-year old guy with marginal talent is forced to stop
living out of his car and begging for bike parts, then the rule is not unfair- it's an act of
mercy. One of my riders from this year, Matt Svatek, might be the only exception. If guys want
to take issue with me over that, then they are free to prove me wrong. Go pull a Scott Price or
Drew Miller and race as an amateur, beat the [censored] out a bunch of pros, and get yourself a
contract in 2005. There is nothing more I like to see than the underdog succeed."

I wonder if the 'over 27' guys have tried the approach of bringing along a younger rider at
little/no support to meet the 50/50 ratio rule? It seems that the top Euro riders bring along
siblings/friends/former teammates all the time when they negotiate contracts.

Oh, yea, that comment about an act of mercy, priceless!

Laudien needs to try that logic out on Bostick...

Andy Coggan

Andy,

It's the exception that proves the rule, right?

Scott

Two words:
Ludo Dierckxsens

Doc,

Your post makes no sense. When Bostick was good, he got on teams. If he was good now ( at the pro
level), he'd get on a team. Perhaps you are referring to my comments about most riders not getting
much better after 28 in which case I stand by my statements as true in most cases.

A reading of the article will show that my comments don't disparage cyclists of any age or indicate
that older cyclists cannot be competitive. And I fully support someone chasing their dreams and
perusing their goals.

What I do have a problem with is someone whining about the U27 rule as the reason for the lack of
their success. Is an especially ridiculous assertion considering what they are whining about..the
bottom half of a D3.5 roster spot.

That spot gets you into, maybe, Philly week, New York and San Francisco, which are cool, but still
only 5 days out of the year.

I suspect that the same rider who might get bumped in lieu of a U27 rider would find more support,
more results, and an easier life doing the same races on a well run, well supported team such as
Wheelworks or Snow Valley. Hell, you might even be able to help Mathis Bros field enough guys for a
full team at Toona.

BTW, my comments are also inherently not applicable to riders such as Monohan, Hamblen, or Carney.
Those guys aren't being left off teams because of their ages. They're not on pro rosters yet,
because they are, understandably, unwilling to race for a pittance.

Sometimes it hurts my head to know so much.

"Andy Coggan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<PRNyb.23180

Quoted message said:

Laudien needs to try that logic out on Bostick...

Andy Coggan

"RACER X" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

birthday constitutes their own personal category. This way, USA Cycling can give out another
39,000 stars & stripes jerseys on top of the 2 million they already give out every year.

<snip>

Dumbass -

USAC only gives out 500 jerseys/year, not 2 million.

That's why mine are so valuable.

K. Gringioni rbr Masters National Champion

Bill Laudien said:

Sometimes it hurts my head to know so much.

All the more reason to get on the undercard with Myerson.

Bob Schwartz [email hidden]

RACER X <[email hidden]> wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

There's only one Superbowl champion.

Actually, aren't there like 50? Or does one guy now constitute a team in the NFL?

Quoted message said:

Enjoy your holidays,

Racer X

pedalchick <[email hidden]> wrote in news:3fcd112e$1_1 @news.chariot.net.au:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Laudien needs to try that logic out on Bostick...

Andy Coggan

Andy, It's the exception that proves the rule, right? Scott

Two words: Ludo Dierckxsens

Way to prove his point for him.

"Bob Schwartz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

All the more reason to get on the undercard with Myerson.

Bob Schwartz

Its not Laudien that's the problem, its Myerson's old lady.

hold my beer and watch this... said:

"Bob Schwartz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

All the more reason to get on the undercard with Myerson.

Quoted message said:

Its not Laudien that's the problem, its Myerson's old lady.

Laudien's scared to fight Myerson's old lady? That seems reasonable.

"hold my beer and watch this..." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Bob Schwartz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

All the more reason to get on the undercard with Myerson.

Bob Schwartz

Its not Laudien that's the problem, its Myerson's old lady.

Dumbass -

Myerson's ball and chain should hang out with Sabine - she's challenged all of rbr to fights w/ her
sort-of-gay-looking boyfriend.

"Andy Coggan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<PRNyb.23180

Quoted message said:

Laudien needs to try that logic out on Bostick...

What do you mean by this ?

I don't understand why he feels Svatek is a particular exception though.

"TritonRider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Yeah Tom! Way to make the sport better, and get more young people

and sponsors

Quoted message said:

involved! Just because some of the people who are pros now came up

without a lot of

Quoted message said:

help, let's not help anyone ever! Bitter, are we?

That has nothing to do with it. Real Racers(tm) come from junior programs and NOT from pro programs
that give someone a salary to be mediocre. If you want to give someone a hand up start verymuch
improved junoir programs and you'll have all of the pros you ever wanted and more.