A top end bike is too expensive nowadays...

DrunkenBiker said:

Alienator,

You are, as usual, a bore.

I ask this question because I've worked for a couple companies over the years that had obscene margins.

Trek seems private. Giant seems private. Anthole seems private. Moots(or is it Mooch) is private.

Who do I ask exactly ??

Every simpleton here, you included, has all sorts of stories about how the near by LBS has a razor sharp margin. That may be true.

But I hear nothing about maker profits.

Golly, your words sure hurt. Again, what makes you think anyone here knows? Why don't you contact the manufacturers and ask? Those are valid questions. Sure, I'm sorry that I dared question your magnificence, but still: they're fair, valid questions. If valid questions make me a bore, so be it. Apparently, though, you can't come up with answers to the valid questions. Hmmmmm.

alienator said:

Golly, your words sure hurt. Again, what makes you think anyone here knows? Why don't you contact the manufacturers and ask? Those are valid questions. Sure, I'm sorry that I dared question your magnificence, but still: they're fair, valid questions. If valid questions make me a bore, so be it. Apparently, though, you can't come up with answers to the valid questions. Hmmmmm.

You take this to levels that make me fart in your general direction.

All I have is a simple question......Not from an LBS, not from Ebay, not from whatever.....what is the margin on this ?

cyclesuperstore.ieORIGIN 595.jpgOpen ↗

DrunkenBiker said:

You take this to levels that make me fart in your general direction.

All I have is a simple question......Not from an LBS, not from Ebay, not from whatever.....what is the margin on this ?

cyclesuperstore.ieORIGIN 595.jpgOpen ↗

What a wordsmith.

Why don't you ask Look what the margin is? I don't know what it is. I doubt anyone here works for Look and thus knows wha the margin is, so why don't you go do a little research and find out?

Your question looks pretty stupid if you can't be bothered to go find the answer.

alienator said:

What a wordsmith.

Why don't you ask Look what the margin is? I don't know what it is. I doubt anyone here works for Look and thus knows wha the margin is, so why don't you go do a little research and find out?

Your question looks pretty stupid if you can't be bothered to go find the answer.

Your answer, as usual, bores me.

Private companies give out very little information. I'm 43. I've been around the block a few times.

lookcycle.comcorporateOpen ↗

You dissect that site for me.

Show me the margin on the bike you get wet over.

Show me the research that a uber-everything like you would have no problems finding.

The rest of us will be cowering in your shadow while you do this.

alienator said:

What a wordsmith.

Why don't you ask Look what the margin is? I don't know what it is. I doubt anyone here works for Look and thus knows wha the margin is, so why don't you go do a little research and find out?

Your question looks pretty stupid if you can't be bothered to go find the answer.

And that "wordsmith" part really [censored] annoys me.

Simple words and a nod to Monthy Python rule the day.

Alienator........how old are you anyway ??

DrunkenBiker said:

Your answer, as usual, bores me.

Private companies give out very little information. I'm 43. I've been around the block a few times.

lookcycle.comcorporateOpen ↗

You dissect that site for me.

Show me the margin on the bike you get wet over.

Show me the research that a uber-everything like you would have no problems finding.

The rest of us will be cowering in your shadow while you do this.

Why would I want to do this? I don't care what Look's margin is. Again, if you want the info, go to Look. You're 43. You've been around the block a few times. C'mon. You can do it.

DrunkenBiker said:

And that "wordsmith" part really [censored] annoys me.

Simple words and a nod to Monthy Python rule the day.

Alienator........how old are you anyway ??

Mercy. You're annoyed? Well that ought to stop everyone in their tracks. DrunkenBiker's annoyed.

Again: why ask what manufacturer margins are if you aren't willing to put out the effort to find out? Hmmm. I guess you haven't been 'round that block before.

DrunkenBiker said:

Your answer, as usual, bores me.

Private companies give out very little information. I'm 43. I've been around the block a few times.

lookcycle.comcorporateOpen ↗

You dissect that site for me.

Show me the margin on the bike you get wet over.

Show me the research that a uber-everything like you would have no problems finding.

The rest of us will be cowering in your shadow while you do this.

You'd think a guy that's been around the block a few times would know that Look's margin is nowhere to be found on that site.

What research, pray tell, are you talking about? Do you know what research is?

You're cowering in my shadow? Wow. I'm honored that someone with your life experience would look up to me so.

margin from a manufacturer in economic terms is basically meaningless. by definition it is going to be the sale price of the unit less the direct cost of that sale which is probably only going to be the raw materials.

so if the margins were say 100% which is completely realistic. that 100% they make per unit, then has to cover items like:

factory/plant and manufacturing costs, employee salaries, ongoing service and support, r&d costs etc etc.

so ultimately the per unit margin is meaningless other than to people who want to look at a simple figure and say 'ooo those [censored] sell an item for X$ and put an obscene Y$ in their pockets. unless you are looking at a complete P&L for the business you've got no idea what type of costs they are managing.

as you've pointed out, many of the companies are private and don't need to express this material to shareholders. thats their choice and their right. as alienator fairly correctly asked, what is your annual income? why would you tell us? similarly why would a manufacturer expose all their numbers to the world, including competitors? retail is a completely different scenario.

--brett

You shouldn't give a **** what margin the manufacturer puts on their products. Sideshow_bob is right.

But, manufacturers have to cater for supply and demand above covering their costs. If they put too high a margin on, no-one will buy their stuff. If you look, you'll see that most great frames cost about the same (bar a few, who don't go from manufacturer to branding to distributor to store, like pedal force, direct from manufacturer AFAIK)

Stop caring about the manufacturer margin and accept it as a part of life. People pay for them, so it won't change.

And remember, you are only winning an internet argument if you really don't care about winning or losing it.

You are not getting a warranty,

Please explain.

Does a Campy crank arm have to be procured thru a LBS to come with a warranty? If so, they've covered one for me that was not bought thru a shop nor did it have a sale receipt with it.

I have not bought anything major from a LBS in over 30 years. Should I start now?

Yes.

Go and buy 35% of their floor stock right now.

I assume you have a comprehensive tool kit and are fully capable of carrying out your own repairs and installations, in which case, fine, buy stuff from the net. Hell, I work in a bike shop and even I wouldn't buy campy cranks through them. I can get DA cranks for half the price of chorus.

bobbyOCR said:

I wouldn't buy campy cranks through them. I can get DA cranks for half the price of chorus.

and still twice what they're worth.

It's nice to see that no matter the subject being discussed, we have the ability to morph threads into "Shimano vs Campy"; or the more current "Alienator vs CampyBob"

LeDomestique said:

It's nice to see that no matter the subject being discussed, we have the ability to morph threads into "Shimano vs Campy"; or the more current "Alienator vs CampyBob"

When did Shimano earn the right to even be compared to Campy? I wasn't aware that they'd improved that much.

alienator said:

When did Shimano earn the right to even be compared to Campy? I wasn't aware that they'd improved that much.

Shimano is fine to any one who doesn't have a mommy issue.

alienator said:

When did Shimano earn the right to even be compared to Campy? I wasn't aware that they'd improved that much.

My gawd! someone check the temperature in hades...alienator and i <gasp> agree!!!

Hmmm? matched Norton Atlas's with P11 frames on Steel City...hot lap; loser has to run a shimaNO decal on his LOOK/Douglas for a year. I'll spot you .2 for the stiff neck and another .2 for being a general pain in the ass. Wait a minute! You should spot me .5 for being old!

thedomestic, I was just screwing with Bobby. Shimano is good stuff, but I'm biased. 35 years of running Campy will do that to a guy.

CAMPYBOB said:

My gawd! someone check the temperature in hades...alienator and i <gasp> agree!!!

Hmmm? matched Norton Atlas's with P11 frames on Steel City...hot lap; loser has to run a shimaNO decal on his LOOK/Douglas for a year. I'll spot you .2 for the stiff neck and another .2 for being a general pain in the ass. Wait a minute! You should spot me .5 for being old!

thedomestic, I was just screwing with Bobby. Shimano is good stuff, but I'm biased. 35 years of running Campy will do that to a guy.

Plotting weights versus price, per Competitive Cyclist, suggests Shimano had better have superior functionality to justify itself, assuming weight matters:

I suspect Shimano artificially reduces the attraction of lower-price groups to split the market between those more willing and less willing to spend the bigger bucks, while Campy and SRAM follow a more natural price-benefit tradeoff curve.

Dan

alienator said:

When did Shimano earn the right to even be compared to Campy? I wasn't aware that they'd improved that much.

Yes, they have a DA carbon crank now.... :p

Every one in my neighborhood rides Wall-Mart bikes but my wife and I. They think we are nuts. But they wonder how a guy almost 63 rides 20 to 35 miles a day about five days a week most of the time.When they say something about how much I spent on what. I just say how much did you pay for the nordictrack or what ever you used for maybe two weeks.I do not try to compete but love my time on the bikes.

Wink