Wanted: BB cup jam nuts (Attn: LBS retail sales)

!Jones said:

Hello;

I'm using a Phil BB and cups in a build. (1.375 X 24, English).
There exist some "jam nuts" that screw onto the exposed thread of the
cup; they're probably cosmetic because Phil doesn't have them;
however, they do give the final assembly a nice, finished look.

Any of you LBS types have these? I have a shopping list of other
parts that I'm pretty sure you do have; I'd just like to find a pair
(LH/RH) of the jam nuts and order all of it at once.

Jones

Well, on the left side, you could just use a regular lockring. Don't
know of any reverse-threaded ones, though.

Once again, Peter Chisholm is right - Italian threading is far better,
because in this case, you could use two regular lockrings!

!Jones said:

Hello;

I'm using a Phil BB and cups in a build. (1.375 X 24, English).
There exist some "jam nuts" that screw onto the exposed thread of the
cup; they're probably cosmetic because Phil doesn't have them;
however, they do give the final assembly a nice, finished look.

Any of you LBS types have these? I have a shopping list of other
parts that I'm pretty sure you do have; I'd just like to find a pair
(LH/RH) of the jam nuts and order all of it at once.

Jones

Think you are talking about BB lockrings like found on adjustable cup
BBs but the Phils I have installed have the cups all the way into the
BB shell, with little/no threads showing so you wouldn't be able to
screw on a lockring anywho-

Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com said:

Think you are talking about BB lockrings like found on adjustable cup
BBs but the Phils I have installed have the cups all the way into the
BB shell, with little/no threads showing so you wouldn't be able to
screw on a lockring anywho-

Yup. If you glue the cups in with locktight, as one should, then
they're probably just cosmetic. My instalation caught enough thread
to hold 'em OK, but I have a fair amount of thread sticking out. The
bike is an antique and I mainly want it to look finished. I spoze I
can get on the lathe and make a set; however, if my time is worth
anything, it's generally easier simply to buy 'em. I have a Paramount
tandem with Phil BBs and it has lock rings... the Phil people acted
like they didn't know what I was talking about, though.

Jones

!Jones said:

Hello;

I'm using a Phil BB and cups in a build. (1.375 X 24, English).
There exist some "jam nuts" that screw onto the exposed thread of the
cup; they're probably cosmetic because Phil doesn't have them;
however, they do give the final assembly a nice, finished look.

Any of you LBS types have these? I have a shopping list of other
parts that I'm pretty sure you do have; I'd just like to find a pair
(LH/RH) of the jam nuts and order all of it at once.

Jones

Is this what you're looking for:
"http://harriscyclery.net/itemdetails.cfm?catalogId=39&ID=2294"?
or is it the wrong threading?

Hank Wirtz said:

Once again, Peter Chisholm is right - Italian threading is far better,
because in this case, you could use two regular lockrings!

If you say so, then it must be right.

OTOH, the Wop threads have a 30 mm X 1 pitch, which isn't exactly what
I'd call "regular". A 1 3/16 X 24 lock ring will screw on if you
don't need a lot of torque; it'll be sloppy, though. (Yeah, I'll pick
a box of those up at my local hardware store, I will!) If I end up
cutting them, then it's six of one and half a dozen of the other. For
LH thread, you just reverse the spindle and turn the threading tool
over.

I have heard that argument before, but I don't see any clear reason to
say one or the other is better. The reverse threading on the Limey
BBs seems to make some sense, I guess... a little... maybe. OTOH, I
have seen RH cups forced into the left side or visa versa, a faux pas
that will seriously ruin the aspiring mechanic's day!

While we're here, let's discuss crank pullers! There's just enough
difference in them to strip a crank. I heard that the bike shops did
that so they could sell more cranks... it's a damn conspiracy, I
say!!!

Jones

!Jones said:

Hank Wirtz said:

Once again, Peter Chisholm is right - Italian threading is far better,
because in this case, you could use two regular lockrings!

If you say so, then it must be right.

OTOH, the Wop threads have a 30 mm X 1 pitch, which isn't exactly what
I'd call "regular". A 1 3/16 X 24 lock ring will screw on if you
don't need a lot of torque; it'll be sloppy, though. (Yeah, I'll pick
a box of those up at my local hardware store, I will!) If I end up
cutting them, then it's six of one and half a dozen of the other. For
LH thread, you just reverse the spindle and turn the threading tool
over.

Sorry, that's something of a running gag...Peter will say that Italian
threads are the best because they're Italian, and Sheldon or Jobst or
somebody else will jump all over him for it. I'm not sure that he
actually feels that way.

See http://tinyurl.com/yoqjz9

Hank Wirtz said:

On Oct 2, 12:36 pm, !Jones <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Sorry, that's something of a running gag...Peter will say that Italian
threads are the best because they're Italian, and Sheldon or Jobst or
somebody else will jump all over him for it. I'm not sure that he
actually feels that way.

Oh, well... some people have strong feelings. Don't get me started
about my Bendix red-band "kick down" hubs. (When bicyclists were
*real* men... )

I don't think I got the size right on the Wop thread, anyway.
Something is bothering me about that major diameter... but I didn't
tell anyone to *do* anything!!!

Jones

Hank Wirtz said:

Once again, Peter Chisholm is right - Italian threading is far better,
because in this case, you could use two regular lockrings!

I guess y'all are right... but I know that I have an old Phil BB with
two rings. Maybe someone added 'em later???

That's OK. I'll chuck up a piece of T6 and turn a set. They don't
actually *do* anything 'cept look cool. I'll get 'em black anodized
and they'll be slicker 'n boogers on a brass doorknob!

Jones

Quoted message said:

Hank Wirtz said:

Once again, Peter Chisholm is right - Italian threading is far better,
because in this case, you could use two regular lockrings!

!Jones said:

I guess y'all are right... but I know that I have an old Phil BB with
two rings. Maybe someone added 'em later???
That's OK. I'll chuck up a piece of T6 and turn a set. They don't
actually *do* anything 'cept look cool. I'll get 'em black anodized
and they'll be slicker 'n boogers on a brass doorknob!

Maybe. Or your tandem BB is actually a Kajita or Suntour by Kajita which
was a common tandem piece in the 1980s and does have RH+LH lockrings.

Besides all that, Peter's right, Forza Italia!

http://www.italy-news.net/articoli/eng/articolo_06.php3
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

"!Jones" <[email hidden]> a écrit:

Quoted message said:

I don't think I got the size right on the Wop thread, anyway.
Something is bothering me about that major diameter...

And the pitch. It's 36mm x 24tpi, my Kraut Mick friend.

Some Specialités TA bottom brackets use two lockrings:

http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/bottombrackets.asp

You may be able to order them as spare parts.

James Thomson

!Jones said:

On Oct 2, 12:33 pm, "Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com"

Quoted message said:

Think you are talking about BB lockrings like found on adjustable cup
BBs but the Phils I have installed have the cups all the way into the
BB shell, with little/no threads showing so you wouldn't be able to
screw on a lockring anywho-

Yup. If you glue the cups in with locktight, as one should, then
they're probably just cosmetic. My instalation caught enough thread
to hold 'em OK, but I have a fair amount of thread sticking out. The
bike is an antique and I mainly want it to look finished. I spoze I
can get on the lathe and make a set; however, if my time is worth
anything, it's generally easier simply to buy 'em. I have a Paramount
tandem with Phil BBs and it has lock rings... the Phil people acted
like they didn't know what I was talking about, though.

Jones

I think you are going to have a tough time finding a lockring for the
right side, since it is left threaded(if english)..the right side is
easy..any english adjustable cup lockring.

Plus, I have never used loctite for Phil cups..just grease and 2
tools.

A Muzi said:

Maybe. Or your tandem BB is actually a Kajita or Suntour by Kajita which
was a common tandem piece in the 1980s and does have RH+LH lockrings.

Naa, the BBs are Phil; I'm sure of that. Maybe someone just added the
lockrings?

I'm over it!

Jones

James Thomson said:

"!Jones" <[email hidden]> a écrit:

And the pitch. It's 36mm x 24tpi, my Kraut Mick friend.

Yeah, I thought 30mm wasn't right. Are you sure it's not a 1mm
thread? I mean, 1/24" is fairly close to a mimaleeter, as I recall...
hey! I don't have one (Praise the Lord!!!), so it isn't exactly the
burning issue of my life, but why would an otherwise perfectly
competent people (who gave the world pasta) call out a major in metric
then go to inches for the thread count? Why, I'd sooner mix my
metaphors than my units of distance.

Jones

Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com said:

Plus, I have never used loctite for Phil cups..just grease and 2
tools.

I usually read the directions, but only after I have screwed it up
twice... Phil's say to use the the locktite; they even provide a
little tube of "Phil approved" glue. I wonder if you can "sniff" it
if I don't need it for the cups?

Jones... who once, as a kid, tried to sniff Elmer's glue. (heard it
was "kicks", but I got it all over me face!)

Hank Wirtz said:

!Jones said:

On Oct 2, 10:56 am, Hank Wirtz <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Once again, Peter Chisholm is right - Italian threading is far better,
because in this case, you could use two regular lockrings!

Quoted message said:

If you say so, then it must be right.

Quoted message said:

OTOH, the Wop threads have a 30 mm X 1 pitch, which isn't exactly what
I'd call "regular". A 1 3/16 X 24 lock ring will screw on if you
don't need a lot of torque; it'll be sloppy, though. (Yeah, I'll pick
a box of those up at my local hardware store, I will!) If I end up
cutting them, then it's six of one and half a dozen of the other. For
LH thread, you just reverse the spindle and turn the threading tool
over.

Sorry, that's something of a running gag...Peter will say that Italian
threads are the best because they're Italian, and Sheldon or Jobst or
somebody else will jump all over him for it. I'm not sure that he
actually feels that way.

Seehttp://tinyurl.com/yoqjz9

Of COURSE I feel that way..Italiano is a far superior threading
system....

tick, tick, tick...

"!Jones" <[email hidden]> a écrit:

Quoted message said:

Are you sure it's not a 1mm thread?

Yes. Italian bicycle threads often mix metric diameters with imperial pitch,
e.g. 35mm x 24tpi for Italian freewheels, 10mm x 26tpi and 9mm x 26tpi for
Campagnolo axles.

Quoted message said:

it isn't exactly the burning issue of my life, but why would an
otherwise perfectly competent people (who gave the world
pasta) call out a major in metric then go to inches for the
thread count?

I've read that there was a time when the Italians bought their lathes from
the British.

James Thomson

Quoted message said:

James Thomson said:

"!Jones" <[email hidden]> a écrit:
And the pitch. It's 36mm x 24tpi, my Kraut Mick friend.

!Jones said:

Yeah, I thought 30mm wasn't right. Are you sure it's not a 1mm
thread? I mean, 1/24" is fairly close to a mimaleeter, as I recall...
hey! I don't have one (Praise the Lord!!!), so it isn't exactly the
burning issue of my life, but why would an otherwise perfectly
competent people (who gave the world pasta) call out a major in metric
then go to inches for the thread count? Why, I'd sooner mix my
metaphors than my units of distance.

Italian BB threads are 36mm x 24 tpi, 55 degree WW form.
After England invented industrialization, the Italians were right
behind, adopting metric diameters with Imperial pitch. Italian freewheel
thread is 35mm x 24tpi, also 55 degree WW form, headsets 25.4mm x 24tpi,
etc.
visual aids dep't:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/FWTHREAD.JPG

Swiss thread is perfectly logical. Which is why no one builds with it.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

!Jones said:

On Oct 2, 10:56 am, Hank Wirtz <[email hidden]> wrote:
> Once again, Peter Chisholm is right - Italian threading is far better,
> because in this case, you could use two regular lockrings!
If you say so, then it must be right.
OTOH, the Wop threads have a 30 mm X 1 pitch, which isn't exactly what
I'd call "regular". A 1 3/16 X 24 lock ring will screw on if you
don't need a lot of torque; it'll be sloppy, though. (Yeah, I'll pick
a box of those up at my local hardware store, I will!) If I end up
cutting them, then it's six of one and half a dozen of the other. For
LH thread, you just reverse the spindle and turn the threading tool
over.

Quoted message said:

Hank Wirtz said:

Sorry, that's something of a running gag...Peter will say that Italian
threads are the best because they're Italian, and Sheldon or Jobst or
somebody else will jump all over him for it. I'm not sure that he
actually feels that way.
Seehttp://tinyurl.com/yoqjz9

Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com said:

Of COURSE I feel that way..Italiano is a far superior threading
system....
tick, tick, tick...

Sure! Italian thread form has, uh, historical significance? Romance?

Since our industry's thread forms are all archaic and pointless, may as
well be Genuine Italian as any other. Note the cold purposeful logic of
Swiss thread format. Abandoned by our industry of course.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

in rec.bicycles.tech SMS said:

Is this what you're looking for:
"http://harriscyclery.net/itemdetails.cfm?catalogId=39&ID=2294"?
or is it the wrong threading?

Yeah, that's half of what I had in mind. The other half had a left
thread... but, I'm convinced that it doesn't exist in our normal frame
of reference; therefore, I have cut a pair out of T6. All they do for
me is to hide the exposed threads, so... whatever that damn 'A' word
is, it works for me. "All-you-min-ee-yum" or something like that.

Maybe I'll make it outta magnesium next time. The main issue with
that stuff is that it burns easily and fiercely in a crash... and I'd
*hate* to go out in a blaze of glory!

Jones