Re: What odd people

"Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tim McNamara said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Much of the blame should go to the "cul-de-sac residential block
surrounded by high speed/high traffic arterials" development pattern.

Actually, the "cul-de-sac" type development can be a boon to cycling. If
the cul-de-sacs have cut thrus. Our town was built many decades ago with
cut thrus at the ends of many cul-de-sacs for cyclists and pedestrians.
There are places in town I can get to much faster by cycling, some even by
walking, than I can by driving the car out onto the arterials and around the
entire neighborhood from the outside. When the schools have back
pedestrian/bicycle entrances it makes for safe places for kids to walk or
bike to school. Our downtown area culminates in a weird gateway
intersection, where one side is the sidewalk/path from the library and
neighborhoods. It's very safe for kids to cross at the light at the
intersection to get to the small commercial village area without ever going
along a busy arterial. Cities can be designed this way with a little
forthought to cede that 12 foot clearance at the end of every cul-de-sac.

Cathy Kearns said:

"Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in messagenews:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tim McNamara said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Much of the blame should go to the "cul-de-sac residential block
surrounded by high speed/high traffic arterials" development pattern.

Actually, the "cul-de-sac" type development can be a boon to cycling. If
the cul-de-sacs have cut thrus. Our town was built many decades ago with
cut thrus at the ends of many cul-de-sacs for cyclists and pedestrians.
There are places in town I can get to much faster by cycling, some even by
walking, than I can by driving the car out onto the arterials and around the
entire neighborhood from the outside. When the schools have back
pedestrian/bicycle entrances it makes for safe places for kids to walk or
bike to school. Our downtown area culminates in a weird gateway
intersection, where one side is the sidewalk/path from the library and
neighborhoods. It's very safe for kids to cross at the light at the
intersection to get to the small commercial village area without ever going
along a busy arterial. Cities can be designed this way with a little
forthought to cede that 12 foot clearance at the end of every cul-de-sac.

That sounds like an excellent layout. I've never seen anything like
it, but I wish I had. Whereabouts is this?

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Cathy Kearns said:

"Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in
messagenews:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tim McNamara wrote:
> In article <[email hidden]>,
Much of the blame should go to the "cul-de-sac residential block
surrounded by high speed/high traffic arterials" development pattern.

Actually, the "cul-de-sac" type development can be a boon to cycling. If
the cul-de-sacs have cut thrus. Our town was built many decades ago with
cut thrus at the ends of many cul-de-sacs for cyclists and pedestrians.
There are places in town I can get to much faster by cycling, some even
by
walking, than I can by driving the car out onto the arterials and around
the
entire neighborhood from the outside. When the schools have back
pedestrian/bicycle entrances it makes for safe places for kids to walk or
bike to school. Our downtown area culminates in a weird gateway
intersection, where one side is the sidewalk/path from the library and
neighborhoods. It's very safe for kids to cross at the light at the
intersection to get to the small commercial village area without ever
going
along a busy arterial. Cities can be designed this way with a little
forthought to cede that 12 foot clearance at the end of every cul-de-sac.

That sounds like an excellent layout. I've never seen anything like
it, but I wish I had. Whereabouts is this?

I live in Los Altos, California, and the cutthrus were put in when the
houses were built, back in the late 50s, early 60s. We could use a few more
to get all the children in town safely to school, but now would have to buy
the properties, cut the 10 or 12 feet off down the side, and sell the
properties. And the city doesn't have that kind of money.

Where I was growing up in Fresno, California they would have neighborhood
parks you could only get to by the path at the end of a cul-de-sac. So
maybe 6 or 8 cul-de-sacs would circle a small park. You could get to the
next neighborhood by cutting through the park on bike. These neighborhoods
were built around the same time.

Cathy Kearns said:

I live in Los Altos, California, and the cutthrus were put in when the
houses were built, back in the late 50s, early 60s. We could use a
few more to get all the children in town safely to school, but now
would have to buy the properties, cut the 10 or 12 feet off down the
side, and sell the properties. And the city doesn't have that kind
of money.

Cutthrus are a good example of the power of good zoning. If they are put in
as part of the development, they are basically free because you just move
the houses around the rim of the cul-de-sac a little closer together. It's
usually seen as a plus because you keep the low cul-de-sac traffic while
being able to walk to a park, a school, etc.

But as you note they are expensive to add later, and with the general demise
of walking and neighborhoods engineered for walking they went out of fashion
in many areas.

Here's the neighborhood where I grew up, built in the late 1950's and
1960's. There's no cutthru paths, just fences. To get from my back yard to
the back yard behind me was 2.6 miles.
http://tinyurl.com/yof2ym

Pat said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Did you remember to tell the car dealer that you bought your last car
from to remove their sticker from the car before you took delivery?

Quoted message said:

Nope; they didn't put a sticker on. But once I did not buy a car from a
dealer because they would not sell one without their badge riveted to the
car.
Kerry

When we went to buy our last car, we specifically told them that their
decal/badge/sticker would be a deal breaker. "And what's with the pin
stripes down the side?" I asked. The salesman said, "Oh Mr. Hudgins, the
owner, likes pin stripes, so he puts them on every car we sell." That was a
deal breaker, too.

I won't buy a vehicle with pin stripes either. They age poorly, look
tacky, and I keep vehicles a long time. Fortunately in California they
don't do riveted or glued on dealer badges or stickers, just license
plate frames which are easily removed.

I bought one Honda where they had installed an el-cheapo after-market
alarm, which was almost a deal breaker. I had them replace the
instrument panel plastic face where they had drilled a hole for an LED.
It took a while for them to get the part from Honda, and I'm sure they
couldn't claim it as a warranty repair. Unfortunately, the hole they
drilled from the engine compartment to the cabin could not be undone. I
will never go back to that dealer again, Larry Hopkins Honda, Sunnyvale,
CA. I wanted the Honda alarm and keyless entry, which I purchased
on-line and installed myself since the dealer couldn't or wouldn't do it.

The strangest dealer add-on to me was "the gold package" where they put
gold colored plastic emblems on the car, rather than the chrome color
plastic emblems. When I first saw this, back in 1996 while Toyota
shopping, I couldn't believe what they were trying to charge for this
WAO (Worthless Add-On).

WAO List
------------
-Fabric Guard
-Paint Sealant
-Undercoating
-Glass Etching
-Pin Striping
-Gold Package
-Plastic film (headlights, nose and hood)

Any I missed?

Many of these are actually bad to accept even at no extra cost, as they
damage the vehicle and can lead to long term problems.

Cathy Kearns said:

I live in Los Altos, California, and the cutthrus were put in when the
houses were built, back in the late 50s, early 60s. We could use a few
more to get all the children in town safely to school, but now would
have to buy the properties, cut the 10 or 12 feet off down the side, and
sell the properties. And the city doesn't have that kind of money.

In Cupertino, Los Altos, Sunnyvale, Mountain View, Palo Alto, and Menlo
Park, there are lots of passageways, underpasses, and bridges, that make
cycling easier than driving, because to drive means going the long way
around. Also some tunnels are such that make it nicer for those that
would rather not ride on expressways, i.e. some of the tunnels under the
CalTrain railroad tracks at stations.

Unfortunately, a lot (most) residents have no idea that these exist.
When I go on family bike rides I use a lot of them, and always tell my
kids, "shhh, don't tell _anyone_ about this secret passageway. A lot of
them are not on any maps.

I just found another on Tuesday, over by Blach Middle School in Los
Altos, where my daughter was playing a softball game.

Mike Kruger said:

Here's the neighborhood where I grew up, built in the late 1950's and
1960's. There's no cutthru paths, just fences. To get from my back yard to
the back yard behind me was 2.6 miles.
http://tinyurl.com/yof2ym

What struck me as very strange when I moved to California is that all
the houses have fences around the back yards. Where I grew up in
Florida, if you had no pool, or no big dog, then you had no fence, and I
see the same thing in other east coast suburbs. If you had a fence, it
was usually chain link, which was ugly but it didn't cut you off from
your neighbors completely. the yards with fences had back gates (which
went out to an alley). Interesting that neither Yahoo Maps nor Google
Maps shows the alleys, which were all paved, and formed a whole network
of roads that we used on our bikes because there was very little vehicle
traffic, and they ran for miles.

One of my bosses who moved to an expensive area of San Jose (Silver
Creek) told me that the neighbors all agreed to put side gates in that
went between their yards, so the kids could go through between yards,
but this is the exception rather than the rule.

Cathy Kearns said:

"Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in messagenews:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tim McNamara said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Much of the blame should go to the "cul-de-sac residential block
surrounded by high speed/high traffic arterials" development pattern.

Actually, the "cul-de-sac" type development can be a boon to cycling. If
the cul-de-sacs have cut thrus. Our town was built many decades ago with
cut thrus at the ends of many cul-de-sacs for cyclists and pedestrians.

This is a nice idea, but it can be "undone" by a desire for "better
(motor vehicle) traffic flow". There are at least three places in this
town where the former cut through has been widened and turned into
roadway. Mkes it easier to drive to the mall, I guess.

Quoted message said:

There are places in town I can get to much faster by cycling, some even by
walking, than I can by driving the car out onto the arterials and around the
entire neighborhood from the outside. When the schools have back
pedestrian/bicycle entrances it makes for safe places for kids to walk or
bike to school. Our downtown area culminates in a weird gateway
intersection, where one side is the sidewalk/path from the library and
neighborhoods. It's very safe for kids to cross at the light at the
intersection to get to the small commercial village area without ever going
along a busy arterial. Cities can be designed this way with a little
forthought to cede that 12 foot clearance at the end of every cul-de-sac.

catzz66 said:

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 02 Oct 2007 19:11:35 -0700, Bob <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And I know a guy that has hauled 2x4 studs and drywall on the roof of
a Porsche 911. That doesn't make it a sensible thing to do. As for
"not paying to wear advertisement", most of the cyclists I know that
wear logo jerseys do so because they simply like the jersey or, in the
case of team wear, like the team. What's so bad about either?

Nothing is bad about it. Carrying it to the ubsurd, if you didn't like
logos on anything, you would have to cover them up on your car or take
them off of it, rip them off of your running shoes, etc.

Done all of that.

Cathy Kearns said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Cathy Kearns said:

"Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in
messagenews:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Tim McNamara wrote:
>> In article <[email hidden]>,
> Much of the blame should go to the "cul-de-sac residential block
> surrounded by high speed/high traffic arterials" development pattern.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Actually, the "cul-de-sac" type development can be a boon to cycling. If
the cul-de-sacs have cut thrus. Our town was built many decades ago with
cut thrus at the ends of many cul-de-sacs for cyclists and pedestrians.
There are places in town I can get to much faster by cycling, some even
by
walking, than I can by driving the car out onto the arterials and around
the
entire neighborhood from the outside. When the schools have back
pedestrian/bicycle entrances it makes for safe places for kids to walk or
bike to school. Our downtown area culminates in a weird gateway
intersection, where one side is the sidewalk/path from the library and
neighborhoods. It's very safe for kids to cross at the light at the
intersection to get to the small commercial village area without ever
going
along a busy arterial. Cities can be designed this way with a little
forthought to cede that 12 foot clearance at the end of every cul-de-sac.

Quoted message said:

That sounds like an excellent layout. I've never seen anything like
it, but I wish I had. Whereabouts is this?

I live in Los Altos, California, and the cutthrus were put in when the
houses were built, back in the late 50s, early 60s. We could use a few more
to get all the children in town safely to school, but now would have to buy
the properties, cut the 10 or 12 feet off down the side, and sell the
properties. And the city doesn't have that kind of money.

Where I was growing up in Fresno, California they would have neighborhood
parks you could only get to by the path at the end of a cul-de-sac. So
maybe 6 or 8 cul-de-sacs would circle a small park. You could get to the
next neighborhood by cutting through the park on bike. These neighborhoods
were built around the same time.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Cool. Looking on google maps sat. view it all looks quite nice. I
wouldn't mind living in a community like that someday.

"SMS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Cathy Kearns wrote:
In Cupertino, Los Altos, Sunnyvale, Mountain View, Palo Alto, and Menlo
Park, there are lots of passageways, underpasses, and bridges, that make
cycling easier than driving, because to drive means going the long way
around. Also some tunnels are such that make it nicer for those that would
rather not ride on expressways, i.e. some of the tunnels under the
CalTrain railroad tracks at stations.

Unfortunately, a lot (most) residents have no idea that these exist. When
I go on family bike rides I use a lot of them, and always tell my kids,
"shhh, don't tell _anyone_ about this secret passageway. A lot of them are
not on any maps.

I just found another on Tuesday, over by Blach Middle School in Los Altos,
where my daughter was playing a softball game.

There are Los Altos bike maps with all the cut thrus marked, including the
one at Blach. (I was on the city Bicycle Committee when we came up with
that map.)

http://www.ci.los-altos.ca.us/publicworks/Bicyclemap.pdf

I noticed it is missing the one from Altos Oaks to the park, so it's not
perfect. Cupertino, Mountain View, and Palo Alto I understand also have
bike maps somewhere. And yes, I can get to downtown Menlo Park from Los
Altos (including stops at Stanford for sporting events, shopping, or
hospital visits) pretty much all on dead end streets and bike paths.

But despite the maps, most people don't know where the cut-thrus are. And
when we went out and marked the hard to find cut-thrus the day before school
started the neighbors tore the signs down. They aren't big on having school
children ride bikes in their neighborhoods. (No idea why, but a few years on
the bike committee did tell me there are tons of active curmudgons out
there.)

Cathy Kearns said:

But despite the maps, most people don't know where the cut-thrus are.
And when we went out and marked the hard to find cut-thrus the day
before school started the neighbors tore the signs down. They aren't
big on having school children ride bikes in their neighborhoods. (No
idea why, but a few years on the bike committee did tell me there are
tons of active curmudgons out there.)

LOL, you should see the uproar in Cupertino over Scenic Circle, where
there is a bridge into McClellan Ranch Park that is the only safe route
to school.

The residents view the street as their own private property. Other
people are not welcome to be on the street. They've succeeded, at least
temporarily, in getting the bridge closed, endangering the students.

Quoted message said:

The strangest dealer add-on to me was "the gold package" where they put
gold colored plastic emblems on the car, rather than the chrome color
plastic emblems. When I first saw this, back in 1996 while Toyota
shopping, I couldn't believe what they were trying to charge for this WAO
(Worthless Add-On).

Did you know that "gold package" costs $500? I was standing in the salesroom
when an older couple came in and bought a Honda Passport. The salesman said
something like, "I see you have the window tinting and the alarm--what about
the gold package?" and the man said, "Sure, put 'er on as long as you're
doing everything else!" When his wife said, "How much is that going to
cost?", her husband said, "Oh, don't worry--it'll only add a couple of
dollars to each monthly payment."

Amazing!

Pat in TX

Pat said:

Quoted message said:

The strangest dealer add-on to me was "the gold package" where they put
gold colored plastic emblems on the car, rather than the chrome color
plastic emblems. When I first saw this, back in 1996 while Toyota
shopping, I couldn't believe what they were trying to charge for this WAO
(Worthless Add-On).

Did you know that "gold package" costs $500? I was standing in the salesroom
when an older couple came in and bought a Honda Passport. The salesman said
something like, "I see you have the window tinting and the alarm--what about
the gold package?" and the man said, "Sure, put 'er on as long as you're
doing everything else!" When his wife said, "How much is that going to
cost?", her husband said, "Oh, don't worry--it'll only add a couple of
dollars to each monthly payment."

Some folks just gotta have their bling.