Shimano Alfine 8 Internal Rear Hub - Reliability? Durability? Functionality?

In article <[email hidden]>,

Fitz said:

See:

http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/2008/urban/soho/soho40/

Comments are appreciated!

Has anyone established what the differences are between the Alfine and
the Nexus Red Line 8-speed hubs yet?

My dream bike is more like Sheldon's recently-mentioned (but created by
Harris Cyclery in 2006 or so) San Jos8, which is basically a UCI-legal
cyclocross bike with a Red Line 8 hub.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

Fitz said:

See:

http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/2008/urban/soho/soho40/

Comments are appreciated!

Shimano gear hubbed bikes are excellent. However, you can get such a
bike for 1/2-2/3 the cost of that Trek model. Disc brakes for city
bikes only serve as an indicator for thieves, plus make mounting racks
and fenders a real kludge. Cheap linear pull brakes work better than
any urban rider needs-- especially with quality pads, bring the cost
of a bike down considerably, and allow for normal mounting of
accessories. Unfortunately, there's not one Soho model that fits that
description.

However, you can get something better for half the price, a Jamis
Commuter 3.0. It's not an Alfine hub, but a Nexus, which are still
very good. It's got much nicer handlebars that won't make your
shoulders ache, and even comes with fenders. Spend less, get more,
discard hype. It even comes with dual pivot brakes, which are a little
easier to modulate than the linear pull models, and plenty powerful.

http://www.jamisbikes.com/usa/bikes/07_bikes/commuter3.html

To follow up, you asked about durability, reliability. I've bragged
endlessly about my lesser Nexus-7 hub for years, that was utterly
reliable for 30K. Never a bad shift, just replace the chain with a
cheap bmx style every 3K and adjust the barrel adjuster on the cable
every so often so the little red dots line up. That's it. It's an
appliance.

They do make removing a rear wheel tricker, so practice fixing a flat
with the wheel still in the triangle at home. Open up just a bit of
tire, and pull out a little hernia for patching. Make sure to carry a
screwdriver or whatever they use now to secure the anti-rotation arm,
plus a $2 open ended wrench from Sears for your axle nuts in addition
to a patch kit/tube. Practice removing the wheel as well--see if your
shop can teach you.

Chances are though, unless you ride through some real nasties, that
most tough hybrid tires, like what usually come with Nexus/Alfine
hubs, will go long between flats.

That Jamis I linked to is a seriously nice bike for $535. I'd have one
parked in the hall if it didn't involve a drive to the nearest shop
that stocks them around here--in Chattanooga, and seeing as they're
hosting the secession conference right now--I'll keep clear.

Ryan Cousineau said:

My dream bike is more like Sheldon's recently-mentioned (but created by
Harris Cyclery in 2006 or so) San Jos8, which is basically a UCI-legal
cyclocross bike with a Red Line 8 hub.

Yum! Me too. That's such a rational bike, my ears get all pointy just
thinking about it.

Fitz said:

See:

http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/2008/urban/soho/soho40/

Comments are appreciated!

$1100 for a $600 bike! No wonder Trek dealers are enthusiastic!

Anyone notice on the Trek site that Trek is flogging both financing
("Ride now, pay later"😉 and extended warranties? What's next?
Rustproofing, pinstriping and leasing? Oh, and "paint protectant"?

Geez........

Ozark Bicycle said:

Fitz said:

See:

Quoted message said:

http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/2008/urban/soho/soho40/

Quoted message said:

Comments are appreciated!

$1100 for a $600 bike! No wonder Trek dealers are enthusiastic!

Anyone notice on the Trek site that Trek is flogging both financing
("Ride now, pay later"😉 and extended warranties? What's next?
Rustproofing, pinstriping and leasing? Oh, and "paint protectant"?

Geez........

How does that financing stuff work out for you shopowners?

?s

Scott Gordo said:

On Oct 4, 10:25 am, Ozark Bicycle

Quoted message said:

On Oct 3, 10:23 pm, Fitz <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

See:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/2008/urban/soho/soho40/

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Comments are appreciated!

Quoted message said:

$1100 for a $600 bike! No wonder Trek dealers are enthusiastic!

Quoted message said:

Anyone notice on the Trek site that Trek is flogging both financing
("Ride now, pay later"😉 and extended warranties? What's next?
Rustproofing, pinstriping and leasing? Oh, and "paint protectant"?

Quoted message said:

Geez........

How does that financing stuff work out for you shopowners?

?s

Ask a Trek dealer. Mike???

Ozark Bicycle said:

Fitz said:

See:

Quoted message said:

http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/2008/urban/soho/soho40/

Quoted message said:

Comments are appreciated!

$1100 for a $600 bike! No wonder Trek dealers are enthusiastic!

That's about what I think it's worth as well. Those Shimano cable
discs are just nasty. I'd rather have some $5 OEM Tektro 530 LP brakes
with Kool-Stops. You don't notice rotor rub when you're crunching
through the woods, but on the street, it's like a dripping faucet.
Plus, the Shimanos aren't nice feeling or even powerful, and are a
[censored] to adjust. All to move the bike from the sales floor. Cripes.

I understand it works. I had a disced hybrid for six months last year,
a Brodie, as it was cheap (the brakes were actually a turn-off)--with
the same brakes, and they attracted tons of attention. Everybody
wanted to compliment me on the bike, and every evening I'd spend time
trying to quiet the brakes and get rid of rotor rub.

People claim, "but disc brakes work when your rims go out of true."
Well, tune your wheels properly and they'll virtually never go out of
true. It's a boogeyman. However, your discs can easily get knocked out
of whack at the Starbuck's bike rack. Again, not discounting them for
mtbs that hit the trails, but I'm sick of the things popping up on
city rides. Especially horrible ones.

Quoted message said:

Anyone notice on the Trek site that Trek is flogging both financing
("Ride now, pay later"😉 and extended warranties? What's next?
Rustproofing, pinstriping and leasing? Oh, and "paint protectant"?

Simonizing! Smokers package! Ipod ready!

landotter said:

On Oct 4, 9:25 am, Ozark Bicycle

Quoted message said:

On Oct 3, 10:23 pm, Fitz <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

See:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/2008/urban/soho/soho40/

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Comments are appreciated!

Quoted message said:

$1100 for a $600 bike! No wonder Trek dealers are enthusiastic!

That's about what I think it's worth as well. Those Shimano cable
discs are just nasty. I'd rather have some $5 OEM Tektro 530 LP brakes
with Kool-Stops. You don't notice rotor rub when you're crunching
through the woods, but on the street, it's like a dripping faucet.
Plus, the Shimanos aren't nice feeling or even powerful, and are a
[censored] to adjust. All to move the bike from the sales floor. Cripes.

I understand it works. I had a disced hybrid for six months last year,
a Brodie, as it was cheap (the brakes were actually a turn-off)--with
the same brakes, and they attracted tons of attention. Everybody
wanted to compliment me on the bike, and every evening I'd spend time
trying to quiet the brakes and get rid of rotor rub.

People claim, "but disc brakes work when your rims go out of true."
Well, tune your wheels properly and they'll virtually never go out of
true. It's a boogeyman. However, your discs can easily get knocked out
of whack at the Starbuck's bike rack. Again, not discounting them for
mtbs that hit the trails, but I'm sick of the things popping up on
city rides. Especially horrible ones.

Well, bad brakes are bad brakes, but I'm not so sure discs are a bad
idea. Maybe I say that because not even my MTB has discs. But the
perceived advantages I see are more consistent power in mucky
conditions (discs tend to stay away from mud, all but the deepest
puddles, and snow, so you don't get those peachy moments where you
squeeze the brakes and it takes a second for the rims to clear the
water). You also get to replace discs (held on by six bolts, or in the
case of the new Shimano design, no bolts at all) rather than change
rims when your wear wear out. And I don't know what real-world disc
lifespan is like, but my guess would be it at least matches rim life,
at least in crappy conditions (I come from Vancouver; mucky weather is
a way of life).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Anyone notice on the Trek site that Trek is flogging both financing
("Ride now, pay later"😉 and extended warranties? What's next?
Rustproofing, pinstriping and leasing? Oh, and "paint protectant"?

Why not finance your primary transportation method?

Quoted message said:

Simonizing! Smokers package! Ipod ready!

http://www.aspireauctions.com/auction23/details/3782.html
http://www.ihomeaudio.com/products.asp?product_id=10186

Quoted post said:

landotter said:

On Oct 4, 9:25 am, Ozark Bicycle

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Oct 3, 10:23 pm, Fitz <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> See:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/2008/urban/soho/soho40/

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Comments are appreciated!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

$1100 for a $600 bike! No wonder Trek dealers are enthusiastic!

Quoted message said:

That's about what I think it's worth as well. Those Shimano cable
discs are just nasty. I'd rather have some $5 OEM Tektro 530 LP brakes
with Kool-Stops. You don't notice rotor rub when you're crunching
through the woods, but on the street, it's like a dripping faucet.
Plus, the Shimanos aren't nice feeling or even powerful, and are a
[censored] to adjust. All to move the bike from the sales floor. Cripes.

Quoted message said:

I understand it works. I had a disced hybrid for six months last year,
a Brodie, as it was cheap (the brakes were actually a turn-off)--with
the same brakes, and they attracted tons of attention. Everybody
wanted to compliment me on the bike, and every evening I'd spend time
trying to quiet the brakes and get rid of rotor rub.

Quoted message said:

People claim, "but disc brakes work when your rims go out of true."
Well, tune your wheels properly and they'll virtually never go out of
true. It's a boogeyman. However, your discs can easily get knocked out
of whack at the Starbuck's bike rack. Again, not discounting them for
mtbs that hit the trails, but I'm sick of the things popping up on
city rides. Especially horrible ones.

Well, bad brakes are bad brakes, but I'm not so sure discs are a bad
idea.

The fact that they make mounting standard accessories on city bike
impossible make them an extremely bad idea.

Quoted message said:

Maybe I say that because not even my MTB has discs. But the
perceived advantages I see are more consistent power in mucky
conditions (discs tend to stay away from mud, all but the deepest
puddles, and snow, so you don't get those peachy moments where you
squeeze the brakes and it takes a second for the rims to clear the
water). You also get to replace discs (held on by six bolts, or in the
case of the new Shimano design, no bolts at all) rather than change
rims when your wear wear out.

Very few people actually wear out rims that don't ride either off road
or serious road mileage. Rerimming isn't expensive or hard. My city
bike can take a 610mm ERD Alex box rim that runs $18 if I ever wear
them out. I used to run cantis in winter slush--with Koolstops, I
never had a problem stopping or with excessive rim wear. Indeed,
there's such a thing as too much brake in the wet and snow.

Quoted message said:

And I don't know what real-world disc
lifespan is like, but my guess would be it at least matches rim life,
at least in crappy conditions (I come from Vancouver; mucky weather is
a way of life).

Wearing out rims on a commuter is pretty much a non-issue. And if do
do that sort of mileage, a new rim every three years is hardly a
hardship in exchange for being able to mount racks and fenders
securely.

The only reason discs are *really* being put on these sorts of bikes
is to move them off of the sales floor. Conversely, when a thief is
looking to steal something, they're good at moving bikes in those
situations as well.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Fitz said:

See:
http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/2008/urban/soho/soho40/
Comments are appreciated!

Quoted message said:

Ozark Bicycle said:

$1100 for a $600 bike! No wonder Trek dealers are enthusiastic!
Anyone notice on the Trek site that Trek is flogging both financing
("Ride now, pay later"😉 and extended warranties? What's next?
Rustproofing, pinstriping and leasing? Oh, and "paint protectant"?
Geez........

Scott Gordo said:

How does that financing stuff work out for you shopowners?

I have no idea about Trek after 1990 but when we did '90 days same as
cash' with a finance company (the sorts who do stereo systems,
carpeting, etc) the bulk of customers missed a payment, ended up with
huge fees. That was clearly written in the contract and in fact it's how
the finance company made money. The financing engendered ill feeling
toward us overall so we abandoned.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

landotter said:

Quoted post said:

On Oct 4, 7:44 am, landotter <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Oct 4, 9:25 am, Ozark Bicycle

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote:
> On Oct 3, 10:23 pm, Fitz <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > See:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> >http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/2008/urban/soho/soho40/

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > Comments are appreciated!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> $1100 for a $600 bike! No wonder Trek dealers are enthusiastic!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

That's about what I think it's worth as well. Those Shimano cable
discs are just nasty. I'd rather have some $5 OEM Tektro 530 LP brakes
with Kool-Stops. You don't notice rotor rub when you're crunching
through the woods, but on the street, it's like a dripping faucet.
Plus, the Shimanos aren't nice feeling or even powerful, and are a
[censored] to adjust. All to move the bike from the sales floor. Cripes.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I understand it works. I had a disced hybrid for six months last year,
a Brodie, as it was cheap (the brakes were actually a turn-off)--with
the same brakes, and they attracted tons of attention. Everybody
wanted to compliment me on the bike, and every evening I'd spend time
trying to quiet the brakes and get rid of rotor rub.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

People claim, "but disc brakes work when your rims go out of true."
Well, tune your wheels properly and they'll virtually never go out of
true. It's a boogeyman. However, your discs can easily get knocked out
of whack at the Starbuck's bike rack. Again, not discounting them for
mtbs that hit the trails, but I'm sick of the things popping up on
city rides. Especially horrible ones.

Quoted message said:

Well, bad brakes are bad brakes, but I'm not so sure discs are a bad
idea.

The fact that they make mounting standard accessories on city bike
impossible make them an extremely bad idea.

Quoted message said:

Maybe I say that because not even my MTB has discs. But the
perceived advantages I see are more consistent power in mucky
conditions (discs tend to stay away from mud, all but the deepest
puddles, and snow, so you don't get those peachy moments where you
squeeze the brakes and it takes a second for the rims to clear the
water). You also get to replace discs (held on by six bolts, or in the
case of the new Shimano design, no bolts at all) rather than change
rims when your wear wear out.

Very few people actually wear out rims that don't ride either off road
or serious road mileage. Rerimming isn't expensive or hard. My city
bike can take a 610mm ERD Alex box rim that runs $18 if I ever wear
them out. I used to run cantis in winter slush--with Koolstops, I
never had a problem stopping or with excessive rim wear. Indeed,
there's such a thing as too much brake in the wet and snow.

Quoted message said:

And I don't know what real-world disc
lifespan is like, but my guess would be it at least matches rim life,
at least in crappy conditions (I come from Vancouver; mucky weather is
a way of life).

Wearing out rims on a commuter is pretty much a non-issue. And if do
do that sort of mileage, a new rim every three years is hardly a
hardship in exchange for being able to mount racks and fenders
securely.

I would figure in the wet weather you would get pretty good rim wear.
I do down here in PDX, although with the KoolStop pads, it is not
terrible. Anyway, I use discs because the work so much better than
cantilevers/STI in the rain. My Cannondale cross bike takes fenders,
and it is not intended to take a rack, so I would have to kludge
someting together in any event. I can see how the calipers would get
in the way of a normal rack mount, though.

My issue was getting good stopping on my former commute bike (a
Cannondale T1000) with STI and cantis -- which has never been a real
good combination for me, even with good cantis (Pauls) and big hangers
and lots of fussing. The braking was never good enough for me coming
down out of the steep hills. I think I am going to rebuild that bike
with a dyno hub (to give that a whirl) and some bar ends and ordinary
brake levers. Then I can hang out with the Rivendell set and fit in,
except for the fat aluminum thing. -- Jay Beattie.

Ryan Cousineau said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Fitz said:

See:

http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/2008/urban/soho/soho40/

Comments are appreciated!

Has anyone established what the differences are between the Alfine and
the Nexus Red Line 8-speed hubs yet?

My dream bike is more like Sheldon's recently-mentioned (but created by
Harris Cyclery in 2006 or so) San Jos8, which is basically a UCI-legal
cyclocross bike with a Red Line 8 hub.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

The guys at Shimano Canada tell me that the internals of the Alfine are identical to the Nexus, and the internals of the premium Nexus are no different than the regular one. They just added a red stripe and a lighter hub shell and upgraded the bearings a bit.
I have had 2 Alfine hubs that had to be sent to Shimano because of slippage or skipping in the higher gears (5 through 8). They told me it was because a circlip had not been properly installed.
Anyway, I've sold about a dozen Nexus 8s (besides using one myself) and 3 Alfine and those were the only issues that cropped up with any of them.
Bottom line, if you want disc brakes go with alfine, otherwise, Nexus with an Alfine shifter will be the same thing.

On Oct 4, 7:24 pm, Dan Burkhart <Dan.Burkhart.2xy...@no-

mx.forums.cyclingforums.com said:

Ryan Cousineau said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
Fitz <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

See:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/2008/urban/soho/soho40/

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Comments are appreciated!

Quoted message said:

Has anyone established what the differences are between the Alfine and
the Nexus Red Line 8-speed hubs yet?

Quoted message said:

My dream bike is more like Sheldon's recently-mentioned (but created
by
Harris Cyclery in 2006 or so) San Jos8, which is basically a UCI-legal
cyclocross bike with a Red Line 8 hub.

Quoted message said:

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden]://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

The guys at Shimano Canada tell me that the internals of the Alfine
are identical to the Nexus, and the internals of the premium Nexus are
no different than the regular one. They just added a red stripe and a
lighter hub shell and upgraded the bearings a bit.

That's false. The red band version has an extra row of roller
bearings surrounding the outermost gear ring.

I'm ready to believe the Alfine is the same internally as the red band
model, but haven't been inside an Alfine.

Both of my own Nexus 8s are the bottom of the line model, and I liked
them just fine when I was riding them.

Quoted message said:

Bottom line, if you want disc brakes go with alfine, otherwise, Nexus
with an Alfine shifter will be the same thing.

And if you don't mind waiting. Alfine still hasn't made it to the
U.S. aftermarket, though we keep bugging our distributors about it.

Sheldon "Al Feenay" Brown
+----------------------------------------+
| If you ride at night without lights |
| You are liable to be eaten by a grue. |
+----------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com
Useful articles about bicycles and cycling
http://sheldonbrown.com

Dan Burkhart said:

Bottom line, if you want disc brakes go with alfine, otherwise, Nexus
with an Alfine shifter will be the same thing.

Does anyone know if an Alfine shifter has a good way of mounting on
drop bars?

-alan

--
Alan Hoyle - [email hidden] - http://www.alanhoyle.com/
"I don't want the world, I just want your half." -TMBG
Get Horizontal, Play Ultimate.

Alan Hoyle said:

Dan Burkhart said:

Bottom line, if you want disc brakes go with alfine, otherwise, Nexus
with an Alfine shifter will be the same thing.

Does anyone know if an Alfine shifter has a good way of mounting on
drop bars?

I don't see why you couldn't beer can shim a rapidfire version to sit
up on the tops:

http://terrengsykkel.no/img/magasin/telex/full/alfine-rapidfire-SL-S500.jpg

Also see the old Nexus 7 shifter, my favorite shifter of all time!

http://www.bikepartsusa.com/product_images/mfg_01/5/full_53338.jpg

landotter said:

Very few people actually wear out rims that don't ride either off road
or serious road mileage. Rerimming isn't expensive or hard. My city
bike can take a 610mm ERD Alex box rim that runs $18 if I ever wear
them out. I used to run cantis in winter slush--with Koolstops, I
never had a problem stopping or with excessive rim wear.

That varies a lot by geographic location. When I was a bike mechanic
in Austin, I never saw significant rim wear except on the sloppiest
mountain bikes. When I lived in Seattle, it seemed that everybody who
rode regularly in the rain eventually wore out their rims. Some did
so every year.

Austin and Seattle get a very similar amount of total annual
precipitation, but in a very dissimilar number of rainy days. Seattle
gets about 200 days per year of steady drizzle that has the effect of
dispersing grit and grime all over everything. Austin gets most of
its rain as a few tremendous thunderstorms that purge the streets
clean. And Seattle's soil is granite-based, while Austin's is
limestone-based. By spending a lot more wet days coated in more (and
more abrasive) grit, Seattle riders have a much larger opportunity to
grind down their rim sidewalls.

My approach to the problem was to use drum brakes on my rain bike.
For me, the appeal of drums was in their unparalleled low maintenance
and long shoe life. But discs make for much easier wheel changes, and
don't make as many of the truck-like squeaks and squawks that my drums
do.

Chalo

Chalo said:

landotter said:

Very few people actually wear out rims that don't ride either off road
or serious road mileage. Rerimming isn't expensive or hard. My city
bike can take a 610mm ERD Alex box rim that runs $18 if I ever wear
them out. I used to run cantis in winter slush--with Koolstops, I
never had a problem stopping or with excessive rim wear.

That varies a lot by geographic location. When I was a bike mechanic
in Austin, I never saw significant rim wear except on the sloppiest
mountain bikes. When I lived in Seattle, it seemed that everybody who
rode regularly in the rain eventually wore out their rims. Some did
so every year.

Austin and Seattle get a very similar amount of total annual
precipitation, but in a very dissimilar number of rainy days. Seattle
gets about 200 days per year of steady drizzle that has the effect of
dispersing grit and grime all over everything. Austin gets most of
its rain as a few tremendous thunderstorms that purge the streets
clean. And Seattle's soil is granite-based, while Austin's is
limestone-based. By spending a lot more wet days coated in more (and
more abrasive) grit, Seattle riders have a much larger opportunity to
grind down their rim sidewalls.

That sounds sorta logical, but is road grit caused by soil or the
erosion of pavement? Or is it that the pavement is made with local
rock, so the grit varies?

Never had a problem in Chicago's winters when I ran Koolstops for over
three years on the same bike, know what the soil is like there? It's
limestone here, btw.

Also--what kind of pads did the offending bikes use? I'm not
discounting your theory one bit, but curious about other variables.

landotter said:

Chalo said:

landotter wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Very few people actually wear out rims that don't ride either off road
or serious road mileage. Rerimming isn't expensive or hard. My city
bike can take a 610mm ERD Alex box rim that runs $18 if I ever wear
them out. I used to run cantis in winter slush--with Koolstops, I
never had a problem stopping or with excessive rim wear.

Quoted message said:

That varies a lot by geographic location. When I was a bike mechanic
in Austin, I never saw significant rim wear except on the sloppiest
mountain bikes. When I lived in Seattle, it seemed that everybody who
rode regularly in the rain eventually wore out their rims. Some did
so every year.

Quoted message said:

Austin and Seattle get a very similar amount of total annual
precipitation, but in a very dissimilar number of rainy days. Seattle
gets about 200 days per year of steady drizzle that has the effect of
dispersing grit and grime all over everything. Austin gets most of
its rain as a few tremendous thunderstorms that purge the streets
clean. And Seattle's soil is granite-based, while Austin's is
limestone-based. By spending a lot more wet days coated in more (and
more abrasive) grit, Seattle riders have a much larger opportunity to
grind down their rim sidewalls.

That sounds sorta logical, but is road grit caused by soil or the
erosion of pavement? Or is it that the pavement is made with local
rock, so the grit varies?

Never had a problem in Chicago's winters when I ran Koolstops for over
three years on the same bike, know what the soil is like there? It's
limestone here, btw.

Also--what kind of pads did the offending bikes use? I'm not
discounting your theory one bit, but curious about other variables.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I've lived (and rode) in Chicago and Seattle, and I think the
noticeable thing about Seattle rims is the constant black slurry on
the brakes all winter. It's pretty gritty and makes changing your
times a complete mess. I never noticed that in Chicago which always
had colder, dryer winters. I've blown out 2 rims in Seattle. I don't
think I've come close anywhere else. I've switched to a disc rain
bike, so no more of that mess. Sorta hard to ride home on a blown
rim.

As for what the "slurry" stuff is - who knows, but Chalo seems to at
least be in the ballpark.