New wheels or new frame???

Tough call. I'd probably go with the Zipp 404 wheels. I would not go with the 303s because if you are racing competitively you will want something a little deeper than the 303 wheels for stiffness and for aero reasons. The reason I say the wheels over the frame is because many people you see that are successful on carbon frames would do just as well on an aluminum frame. I guess it's really preference more than anything else.

Plus, wheels easily transfer to a new bike. Most races in the US are criteriums, where bike weight isn't all that important, but aero, fast accelerating wheels are a plus.

definitely the wheels, 404's front and rear!!!!!

wheels. 2x404s.

i say wheels...i'm thinking of getting zipps myself...probably 404 if i can scrounge enough change between the cushions on my couch...

Wheels for sure, frame won't make any competitive difference.

artemidorus said:

Wheels for sure, frame won't make any competitive difference.

I upgraded my frame, and I believe it made quite a difference. My bike is now a lot stiffer when I accelerate. I put a nice crank on the new frame as well.

My wheels are Easton Vista wheels. If you guys keep talking so highly of the Zipp 404s, I might have to start saving some money. I better wait a while, as I just bought the new frame last month. BTW, the frame was considerably less expensive than the Zipp wheels.

Steve07 said:

Im riding a trek 1500 07 model bike. Alu frame, ultegra groupset, bontrager lite wheels. Its a grand bike but im looking to upgrade a bit as I ride a lot at a competitve level. Any advice on whether I should upgrade my frame to a 2006 Madone 5.9, or should I go for a pair of zipp wheels. ( 404 rear, 303 front).

Any advice would be great, cheers.

The Trek sounds pretty nice already, I would go for the wheels - you haven't even broken that bike in yet if it's only a 2007 model.

If the frame works well for you, you like it, and it fits well, then just go for wheels. Real performance improvement from wheels is not as great as you would think or people will tell you, but they can provide a big mental advantage. Pretty much everyone is psyched to pedal some nice, light aero wheels.

kk4df said:

I upgraded my frame, and I believe it made quite a difference. My bike is now a lot stiffer when I accelerate. I put a nice crank on the new frame as well.

There is zero correlation between high stiffness and perforance on a bike. In fact, over the next year or two, at least two manufacturers will demonstrate this with independent studies. That stiff bikes are fast bikes is at least an egregious mistatement as well as an outright fallacy. Moreover, I'd wager that detecting frame flexure accurately on the bike is essentially impossible given that the cranks flex, wheels flex, tires flex, stems flex, handlebars flex, seatposts flex, seats flex, pedal axles flex. So how big was that flex again?

alienator said:

There is zero correlation between high stiffness and perforance on a bike. In fact, over the next year or two, at least two manufacturers will demonstrate this with independent studies. That stiff bikes are fast bikes is at least an egregious mistatement as well as an outright fallacy. Moreover, I'd wager that detecting frame flexure accurately on the bike is essentially impossible given that the cranks flex, wheels flex, tires flex, stems flex, handlebars flex, seatposts flex, seats flex, pedal axles flex. So how big was that flex again?

You may be correct as far as real performance gains are concerned, but the bike does feel a lot different. Any perceived speed change may be psychological. And I did notice that a lot of the flex was in the cheap cranks I used to have, so some of the perception of stiffness certainly comes from that change made at the same time.