Frank Boettcher said:On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 06:42:12 -0400, "Doug Freese" <[email hidden]>
Quoted message said:"Dot" <dot.h@#duh?att.net> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:Don Kirkman wrote:
>And I'm just as bothered, or perhaps more so, that race management
>allowed this and that medical staff participated in it than I am
>that
>the runner did it.
Check out finish for 2006 WS100. The guy was DQ'd although organizers
had to think about it.
They new they had to disqualify him because he was helped across the
line. It didn't make the decision any easier.
Frank, whose knowledge of the effects of too little, too much
fluid/salt might want to read about this. And this runner was not a
rookie.
-Doug
Doug, I'm going to assume you mean me and also that this is really you
and not the many posts assigned to you from a truly disturbed
individual.
It is not a matter of whether I know what is possible. I do. Our
discussion was about the right to make a choice given the
probabilities. That's all.
If the individual in question looked wobbly or dazed 200 yards out,
should the RD or one of the staff members have stepped in and told him
he couldn't finish?
Read the rules.
Here's the WS100 rules:
http://www.ws100.com/pguide.htm#iv
Many of those rules are in place to keep the playing field level. People
in the past have tried to do certain things that might have given them
an unfair edge, so the organizers have felt the need to add rules to
keep it fair. If you don't like them, you just don't enter the lottery.
Lots of folks are willing to play by them.
If the runner was only wobbly or dazed, but could still continue on
their own, yes, they're allowed to - at least that close to finish line.
At aid stations, some with medical personnel and scales, they give you
opportunity to revive yourself (within cutoff times). If you still can't
get back within medical parameters before the cutoff, you're out of
there and your wrist bracelist is cut. It's too hazardous having
delirious runners wandering wilderness trails (slight exaggeration to
get the concept across). Most runners that still have their faculties at
the remote aid stations are mindful of what's ahead and have the sense
to back out if they don't feel they can safely negotiate the next
section given their condition. However, sometimes the senses are gone,
and aid station personnel do have some ability to hold runners.
If you read the reports, you'll see that the runner told his pacers he
could not finish on his own power. They gave him several tries at
standing on his own, but he couldn't. His legs kept moving like running,
but couldn't support himself.
FWIW, I have a friend where similar thing happened in a winter race up
here - leading the 100-mile race (at least the runners), collapsed at
about mile 99 (maybe a shade earlier since no trail markers), safety
snow machine found her first (thank heaven she hadn't wandered off
trail) and bikers came soon after. Bikers (since they were race
participants) picked her up to see if she could stand and continue on
her own. She couldn't. Tried 3 times with no success. Put her on the
snow machine (becomes a DNF at this point, not sure about DQ), and she
was taken back to race start and quickly to hospital. Up here, pushing
like that and getting your fluids and energy out of whack is considered
dumb. In the glare of finish line lights for WS100, apparently it's
viewed differently by at least some. It's a race.
In this particular case, there was more than the individual involved.
From some first person reports, it was sort of a "spectacle" (if not
that exact term, then something similar) on the track. But other runners
applauded the guy's effort. However, from a medical perspective, having
that behavior applauded has potential implications for getting medical
volunteers in the future (med people are on ul) and potentially
insurance. People volunteer for these with the assumption that, yes,
there will be some hard efforts, but most people will be trying to
finish on their own two feet. Encouraging people to go beyond that point
increases demands on medical facilities and people's willingness to help
when they know people are willing to self destruct. (I haven't done a
good job of capturing the concerns that some medical folks had, but
maybe it's providing an inkling.)
An interesting comparison (by someone on the WS100 board) was made with
the Tevis Cup (the 100-mi horse race on similar course). The winner of
the Tevis cup has to be deemed to be suitable to continue running. IOW,
it may not be the 1st horse over the line. There's a waiting period (not
sure of time) after they cross the line until the winner is declared.
They also have an award for horse in best condition at end (although
might be best time in best condition). Sometimes the winner of that
award is more highly regarded than the first place finisher. Sometimes
they're the same.
When you sign up for any race, you give up some of the liberties you
have as an individual runner - for even playing field, medical
assistance, insurance, image of the sport, etc. And don't underestimate
the "image of the sport" - that has impacts on ability to get permits
for races in cities as well as trails.
One of the first things to go under many circumstances (both cold and
heat injuries) is the ability to make decisions.
Similarly, Chicago had rules that if runners weren't maintaining a
particular pace, they would be asked to leave the course. Some runners
in this situation complained. Granted there were other runners that
weren't that slow that were asked to walk to the finish or bussed, but
based on the assortment of reports I've seen, I do think organizers were
justified in doing what they did - given the circumstances. Yes, they
probably didn't plan adequately for the heat. But many runners were
undertrained in general or undertrained for those conditions - or maybe
not educated enough about hydration / hyponatremia. I think some of the
training pgms are as much at fault as the organizers.
One person who didn't run Chicago, but knew many people that did has
been comparing note and times as to when various aid stations ran out of
supplies - and some later arrivers apparently were able to get fluids
where earlier people said there wasn't any. I think part of what
happened is that they probably had fewer supplies in the first 10k,
thinking people may not be using that much by then. I mean one guy
reported a dry camelbak by 5k. duh. I'm wondering how much hyponatremia
was out there, although I have no doubt there was dehydration also. One
bus taking runners back to finish area had to stop twice for runners
that needed ambulance assistance on the bus (possibly not enough
ventilation for that many hot bodies in the heat).
Admittedly, this is a concern I have about doing races with aid
stations. So far everything I've done is self supported - or what you
can find on the course.
Dot
--
"I'm a great believer in luck, and I find the harder I work, the more I
have of it."
-Thomas Jefferson, third President of the United States
