Cool bike

aka Joseph Santaniello said:

Hi All,

Check out this cool commuter:

http://www.chargebikes.com/products/cbikes/index.html

Click on "Mixer" to the right.

I want one.

Why are the chain stays so short? Doesn't look like much room for a fender.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
Beer - It's not just for breakfast anymore!

Tom Sherman said:

aka Joseph Santaniello said:

Hi All,

Quoted message said:

Check out this cool commuter:

Quoted message said:

http://www.chargebikes.com/products/cbikes/index.html

Quoted message said:

Click on "Mixer" to the right.

Quoted message said:

I want one.

Why are the chain stays so short? Doesn't look like much room for a fender.

And do they really cut the steerer tube that short or is that just
for the pictures?

Ozark Bicycle said:

Tom Sherman said:

[email hidden] aka Joseph Santaniello wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Hi All,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Check out this cool commuter:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

http://www.chargebikes.com/products/cbikes/index.html

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Click on "Mixer" to the right.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I want one.

Quoted message said:

Why are the chain stays so short? Doesn't look like much room for a fender.

And do they really cut the steerer tube that short or is that just
for the pictures?

Not sure, but it's a waste of a perfectly good Alfine hub. [censored] tire
clearance, and exceptionally dumb bars for go-fast road use. Thank
goodness it has discs so it'll be stolen and you won't have to suffer
long.

landotter said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Check out this cool commuter:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>http://www.chargebikes.com/products/cbikes/index.html

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Click on "Mixer" to the right.

Bleah... I did just as well with an old Schwinn Letour frame (room for
fenders!) I got for $30 and added wheels I built myself. Send me an
Alfine hub and I'll be in hog heaven!

Jeff

Quoted message said:

Hi All,

Check out this cool commuter:

http://www.chargebikes.com/products/cbikes/index.html

Click on "Mixer" to the right.

I want one.

Joseph

Nice, but I don't see the point of a straight bar. A drop bar has a
straight section, but is much more versatile with various possible hand
positions.

Wayne

Wayne Pein said:

Quoted message said:

Hi All,

Quoted message said:

Check out this cool commuter:

Quoted message said:

http://www.chargebikes.com/products/cbikes/index.html

Quoted message said:

Click on "Mixer" to the right.

Quoted message said:

I want one.

Quoted message said:

Joseph

Nice, but I don't see the point of a straight bar. A drop bar has a
straight section, but is much more versatile with various possible hand
positions.

Wayne

If the discs are any good, i.e. hydraulic then there aren't many drop
bars that will take the required 22.2mm diameter controls (I've seen
one pair but they were over £100). I think an upright bar is good for
a commuter, but then if it's a commuter - where's the room for
fenders?? It's a confused bike.

Duncan

left over hydraulics?
hydraulics on a commuter?
dayglo with flashing lights and integral lock.
but....
i'll bet it uses easy to buy mineral oil, an outstanding selling
point.
goes with the leftover hydrualics

Duncan Smith said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Hi All,

Quoted message said:

Check out this cool commuter:

Quoted message said:

http://www.chargebikes.com/products/cbikes/index.html

Quoted message said:

Click on "Mixer" to the right.

Quoted message said:

If the discs are any good, i.e. hydraulic then there aren't many drop
bars that will take the required 22.2mm diameter controls (I've seen
one pair but they were over £100). I think an upright bar is good for
a commuter, but then if it's a commuter - where's the room for
fenders?? It's a confused bike.

My guess from the picture is that there's *just* enough room between
tire and seat tube to get an SKS fender in there. If not, they're on
rather thin ice with this bit:

"Shimano hydraulic disk brakes with chainstay mounted rear disk allowing
for rack and mudguard installation."

I'm still not convinced that discs are a great idea for a commuter. I'd
like to have a set on my snow bike but they do kind of say "Steal me!"

disc covers. no see no stealum and no chain lube. enhance wet
commuting potential.
more than ech fenders or 'mud guards'

Wayne Pein said:

Quoted message said:

Hi All,

Quoted message said:

Check out this cool commuter:

Quoted message said:

http://www.chargebikes.com/products/cbikes/index.html

Quoted message said:

Click on "Mixer" to the right.

Quoted message said:

I want one.

Quoted message said:

Joseph

Nice, but I don't see the point of a straight bar. A drop bar has a
straight section, but is much more versatile with various possible hand
positions.

Wayne

A drop bar does have more hand positions, but when riding in traffic
(let's call the bike an urban commuter) you need to have your hands on
the hoods at least to have ready access to the brakes. So you don't
really get to use those extra hand positions and the one you do use
has arguably worse braking than a flat bar with mtb levers would.

I like the bike because I like road geometry, so as long as a fender
fits, the chainstays are long enough for me. I like discs because they
offer consistent braking with a lighter touch than calipers. I like
hydraulic because it doesn't suffer from gradualy brake-feel
deterioration from corroding cables. I like the internal hub for
obvious reasons. And I like the straight bar because it's one position
is both comfortable and secure.

Joseph

Tom Sherman said:

Why are the chain stays so short? Doesn't look like much room for a fender.

Nah, but a Gibson will fit. Shorter scale length.

Quoted message said:

A drop bar does have more hand positions, but when riding in traffic
(let's call the bike an urban commuter) you need to have your hands on
the hoods at least to have ready access to the brakes. So you don't
really get to use those extra hand positions and the one you do use
has arguably worse braking than a flat bar with mtb levers would.

You should contact straight bar manufacturers to write ad copy for them!

Wayne, 25 years commuting with drop bars.

In article
<[email hidden]>,
"[email hidden]"

Quoted message said:

Wayne Pein said:

Quoted message said:

Hi All,

Quoted message said:

Check out this cool commuter:

Quoted message said:

http://www.chargebikes.com/products/cbikes/index.html

Quoted message said:

Click on "Mixer" to the right.

Quoted message said:

I want one.

Nice, but I don't see the point of a straight bar. A drop bar has a
straight section, but is much more versatile with various possible hand
positions.

A drop bar does have more hand positions, but when riding in traffic
(let's call the bike an urban commuter) you need to have your hands on
the hoods at least to have ready access to the brakes. So you don't
really get to use those extra hand positions and the one you do use
has arguably worse braking than a flat bar with mtb levers would.

I am average size, probably less than average strength,
use all drop bar hand positions in urban traffic, and
get effective braking from the hoods with single pivot
calipers. All these `problems' are solved by attending
to them with one's native intelligence.

1) Identify a difficulty.
2) Formulate a candidate solution.
3) Practice the candidate solution in safe situations.
4) Go to 1).

I successfully applied this method to
* Effective braking, safe braking, learning the limits of brakes.
* Getting stronger.
* Riding a straight line.
* Turning the bicycle.
* Road safety.
* Using drop bars effectively.
* Posture and positions.

--
Michael Press

Michael Press said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,
"[email hidden]"

Quoted message said:

Wayne Pein said:

[email hidden] wrote:
> Hi All,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Check out this cool commuter:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>http://www.chargebikes.com/products/cbikes/index.html

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Click on "Mixer" to the right.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> I want one.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Nice, but I don't see the point of a straight bar. A drop bar has a
straight section, but is much more versatile with various possible hand
positions.

Quoted message said:

A drop bar does have more hand positions, but when riding in traffic
(let's call the bike an urban commuter) you need to have your hands on
the hoods at least to have ready access to the brakes. So you don't
really get to use those extra hand positions and the one you do use
has arguably worse braking than a flat bar with mtb levers would.

I am average size, probably less than average strength,
use all drop bar hand positions in urban traffic, and
get effective braking from the hoods with single pivot
calipers. All these `problems' are solved by attending
to them with one's native intelligence.

1) Identify a difficulty.
2) Formulate a candidate solution.
3) Practice the candidate solution in safe situations.
4) Go to 1).

I successfully applied this method to
* Effective braking, safe braking, learning the limits of brakes.
* Getting stronger.
* Riding a straight line.
* Turning the bicycle.
* Road safety.
* Using drop bars effectively.
* Posture and positions.

--
Michael Press

Your recipie seems a sound way to improve skills and eliminate
potential problems.

The fact that you get more than adequate braking from the hoods does
not mean however that flat bar and mtb style levers are not better,
just that your equipment is good enough for your needs.

I use dual pivot (Ultegra 6600) brakes, salmon Kool-stops, and have
very significantly higher than average hand strength (It was actually
measured once in conjunction with a wrist injury). I weigh a lot too,
so that figures in as well. There is a very big difference between wet
and dry braking, and while it (usually) remains adequate, my flat bar/
disc MTB is always better.

I'm not arguing that drop bars are a poor choice for urban riding,
just that the additional positions they afford are not as easily and
as often taken advantage of as they are on the open road, thus
narrowing their "utility-gap" with flat bars in an urban setting.

If I knew I was going to need to do some maximal braking on my road
bike to avoid a collision or something, I'd want to make sure I was in
the drops for maximum grip on the levers, zero chance of slipping off
the bars, and a solid grip for maneuvering. Were I on the hoods, I of
course would not have time to switch, and the braking force would not
be as good, and I would have the (perhaps low, but real) risk of my
hands slipping off the hoods. Flat bar does not have that problem.
Your hands are not in danger of slipping off, and the brake levers are
available for maximum braking at all times.

Most of this is moot in my case anyway, because I usually ride a track
bike with bullhorns and no brakes at all!

Joseph

On 2007-10-22, [email hidden] <[email hidden]> wrote:
[...]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

A drop bar does have more hand positions, but when riding in traffic
(let's call the bike an urban commuter) you need to have your hands on
the hoods at least to have ready access to the brakes. So you don't
really get to use those extra hand positions and the one you do use
has arguably worse braking than a flat bar with mtb levers would.

Yes but drop bars are narrower so you can fit into the gaps between
buses. This is important on an urban commuter.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Ben C said:

On 2007-10-22, [email hidden] <[email hidden]>
wrote:
[...]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> A drop bar does have more hand positions, but when riding in traffic
> (let's call the bike an urban commuter) you need to have your hands on
> the hoods at least to have ready access to the brakes. So you don't
> really get to use those extra hand positions and the one you do use
> has arguably worse braking than a flat bar with mtb levers would.

Yes but drop bars are narrower so you can fit into the gaps between
buses. This is important on an urban commuter.

Flat bars can be cut to any width you like, and some couriers cut them
very narrow indeed.

I still think drop bars and cross levers are the best compromise,

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"My scenarios may give the impression I could be an excellent crook.
Not true - I am a talented lawyer." - Sandy in rec.bicycles.racing

Quoted message said:

Yes but drop bars are narrower so you can fit into the gaps between
buses. This is important on an urban commuter.

i've never actually understood this claim. i would have thought that
if a space was so narrow that you could only make it through by having
narrower handlebars, you wouldn't want to be going in there anyway!
squeezing between buses (esp. moving ones) sounds like a very bad
idea.

anyway, for me handlebar width isn't the limiting factor--my shoulders
are about as wide as my bars and, like many commuters, i have a
pannier on the back where i stash my books and whatnot. seems to me
that very narrow handlebars are more fad than function.

Michael Press said:

...
I am average size, probably less than average strength,
use all drop bar hand positions in urban traffic, and
get effective braking from the hoods with single pivot
calipers....

Are your fingers longer or shorter than average? Do you have the more
recent "aero" levers?

I have shorter than average fingers [1] and I never could get decent
braking on the hoods with the older exposed cable levers. I understand
the newer "aero" levers are supposed to be better in this regard.

I have no problem doing an intentional "stoppie" on my knobby tire ATB
with generic linear pull cantilever brakes.

[1] I wear "small" size gloves.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
Beer - It's not just for breakfast anymore!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Yes but drop bars are narrower so you can fit into the gaps between
buses. This is important on an urban commuter.

autopi said:

i've never actually understood this claim. i would have thought that
if a space was so narrow that you could only make it through by having
narrower handlebars, you wouldn't want to be going in there anyway!
squeezing between buses (esp. moving ones) sounds like a very bad
idea.

anyway, for me handlebar width isn't the limiting factor--my shoulders
are about as wide as my bars and, like many commuters, i have a
pannier on the back where i stash my books and whatnot. seems to me
that very narrow handlebars are more fad than function.

Depends on your route. Yes, between buses my bars are not the limit, my
arms/ shoulders brush. Wide MTB bars would be a problem. As noted here
earlier today you can trim flat bars narrower. You still have to
remember to duck for the mirrors. [inject Tom Sherman 'recumbent
superiority' here if desired]
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971