So what do you guys think about "Good carbs, bad carbs"?

AKA gray asphalt wrote:
:: It looked like the author got the better of Mehmet Oz on Larry King.
:: ... to me. How close is it to low carb. Thanks, : -)

Do you mean "Good calories, bad calories"?

Roger Zoul said:

AKA gray asphalt wrote:
:: It looked like the author got the better of Mehmet Oz on Larry King.
:: ... to me. How close is it to low carb. Thanks, : -)

Do you mean "Good calories, bad calories"?

Actually, there is another book out called "Good Carbs, Bad Carbs".

Jim wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::: AKA gray asphalt wrote:
::::: It looked like the author got the better of Mehmet Oz on Larry
::::: King. ... to me. How close is it to low carb. Thanks, : -)
:::
::: Do you mean "Good calories, bad calories"?
:::
:::
::
:: Actually, there is another book out called "Good Carbs, Bad Carbs".

Thanks for the info.

On Oct 26, 1:47 am, "AKA gray asphalt" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

It looked like the author got the better of Mehmet Oz on Larry King.
... to me. How close is it to low carb. Thanks, : -)

Taubes on LKL without Larry King but with Mehmet Oz. He wrote
Good Calories, Bad Calories.

Good Carbs, Bad Carbs is a different book entirely.

Good Calories, Bad Calories isn't a diet book, though it does come
down
pretty favorably for low carb living.

Good Carbs, Bad Carbs, from the title, seems like a glycemic load/
glycemic index
type of thing. But someone with specific knowledge might want to chip
in.

On Oct 26, 1:47 am, "AKA gray asphalt" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

It looked like the author got the better of Mehmet Oz on Larry King.
... to me. How close is it to low carb. Thanks, : -)

If you mean Taubes, I, too, think he more than held his own. I did
like Mehmet Oz, though. I thought he expressed his opinion but was
more than reasonable and pleasant. the woman who is the exercise guru
on The Biggest Loser that didn't appear in person but was on the
screen, was really, really rude and aggressive. She came off like a
Marine drill sergeant--no offense to Marine drill sergeants.
Joy Behar did an excellent job of hosting.

"the woman who is the exercise guru
on The Biggest Loser that didn't appear in person but was on the
screen, was really, really rude and aggressive"

If I was eating the [censored] she was eating, I would be angry too!

AKA gray asphalt said:

It looked like the author got the better of Mehmet Oz on Larry King.
... to me. How close is it to low carb. Thanks, : -)

Here is the transcript if anyone is interested. It just reminds me
that there's a reason I don't watch those shows.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0710/19/lkl.01.html

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Oct 26, 1:47 am, "AKA gray asphalt" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

It looked like the author got the better of Mehmet Oz on Larry King.
... to me. How close is it to low carb. Thanks, : -)

If you mean Taubes, I, too, think he more than held his own. I did
like Mehmet Oz, though. I thought he expressed his opinion but was
more than reasonable and pleasant. the woman who is the exercise guru
on The Biggest Loser that didn't appear in person but was on the
screen, was really, really rude and aggressive. She came off like a
Marine drill sergeant--no offense to Marine drill sergeants.
Joy Behar did an excellent job of hosting.

I agree that Mehmet was friendly and fair; it's just that he seemed to
admit that maytbe the "good calories, bad calories" guy might be right
about a lot of very important things, which I seem to be along the lines
of what you guys say. It was surprising.

I'm a vegatarian, so I guess there is nothing here for me?

It's harder for vegetarians to do low carb but it's possible. There are
some websites about it, just Google for vegetarian low carb.

AKA gray asphalt wrote:
| I agree that Mehmet was friendly and fair; it's just that he seemed to
| admit that maytbe the "good calories, bad calories" guy might be right
| about a lot of very important things, which I seem to be along the
| lines of what you guys say. It was surprising.
|
| I'm a vegatarian, so I guess there is nothing here for me?

x-no-archive: yes

AKA gray asphalt said:

I agree that Mehmet was friendly and fair; it's just that he seemed to
admit that maytbe the "good calories, bad calories" guy might be right
about a lot of very important things, which I seem to be along the lines
of what you guys say. It was surprising.

Oz also used the long discarded "complex carb" argument, despite the
fact that plenty of complex carbs are as highly damaging as table sugar.
I was shocked that he spoke in terms of complex and simple carbs in this
day and age.

Quoted message said:

I'm a vegatarian, so I guess there is nothing here for me?

Well, it certainly puts you in a minority, but vegetarians low carbing
for their health have participated here before. My child did it it for
a while, making sure to get lots of proteins, but kept feeling weaker
and weaker, so quit it.

Tempeh, tofu, eggs, cheese, protein shakes can all help a lot, and
choosing vegetable carbs instead of starchy ones.

Susan

AKA gray asphalt said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Oct 26, 1:47 am, "AKA gray asphalt" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

It looked like the author got the better of Mehmet Oz on Larry King.
... to me. How close is it to low carb. Thanks, : -)

If you mean Taubes, I, too, think he more than held his own. I did
like Mehmet Oz, though. I thought he expressed his opinion but was
more than reasonable and pleasant. the woman who is the exercise guru
on The Biggest Loser that didn't appear in person but was on the
screen, was really, really rude and aggressive. She came off like a
Marine drill sergeant--no offense to Marine drill sergeants.
Joy Behar did an excellent job of hosting.

I agree that Mehmet was friendly and fair; it's just that he seemed to
admit that maytbe the "good calories, bad calories" guy might be right
about a lot of very important things, which I seem to be along the lines
of what you guys say. It was surprising.

I'm a vegatarian, so I guess there is nothing here for me?

Susan said:

x-no-archive: yes

AKA gray asphalt said:

I agree that Mehmet was friendly and fair; it's just that he seemed to
admit that maytbe the "good calories, bad calories" guy might be right
about a lot of very important things, which I seem to be along the lines
of what you guys say. It was surprising.

Oz also used the long discarded "complex carb" argument, despite the
fact that plenty of complex carbs are as highly damaging as table sugar.
I was shocked that he spoke in terms of complex and simple carbs in this
day and age.

Mehmet also included the famous "energy gap" of only 100 or so calories
per day, that just exercise can get rid of. So he is echoing the
relatively recent NIH position of energy balance as the fundamental
cause of obesity.

I could almost "feel" Mehmet trying to break away from what he has been
telling people for most of a generation, and just can't seem to break
out of the habit.

He gave the impression of honestly knowing that the situation has to
change, but no demonstration that in the short term, that he himself
can do it.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm a vegatarian, so I guess there is nothing here for me?

Have you become obese being a vegetarian? It is said that doing so is
uncommon. Unless, of course, you serve the starchy vegetables and
sugars in gourmet style cooking.

Quoted message said:

Well, it certainly puts you in a minority, but vegetarians low carbing
for their health have participated here before. My child did it it for
a while, making sure to get lots of proteins, but kept feeling weaker
and weaker, so quit it.

Tempeh, tofu, eggs, cheese, protein shakes can all help a lot, and
choosing vegetable carbs instead of starchy ones.

Susan

x-no-archive: yes

Jim said:

Mehmet also included the famous "energy gap" of only 100 or so calories
per day, that just exercise can get rid of. So he is echoing the
relatively recent NIH position of energy balance as the fundamental
cause of obesity.

Yes, he did. The only interesting thing he tried to say, the thing that
Taubes so frustratingly ignores, is the role of endogenous steroids, and
how excess suppresses thyroid activity, etc... Taubes needs to get off
that one tired insulin note, even though it's a huge player.

Quoted message said:

I could almost "feel" Mehmet trying to break away from what he has been
telling people for most of a generation, and just can't seem to break
out of the habit.

He has books to sell full of that stuff.

Quoted message said:

He gave the impression of honestly knowing that the situation has to
change, but no demonstration that in the short term, that he himself can
do it.

Books to sell.

Susan

AKA gray asphalt said:

I'm a vegatarian, so I guess there is nothing here for me?

It's possible to be vegetarian and low-carb; "Protein Power" has a
section on it. I suppose it depends on how strict a vegetarian you are.
If you'll eat eggs, dairy, and/or fish, that'll make it a lot easier.
If you won't eat any of those, you'll probably be eating a lot of tofu
and nuts and taking supplements to replace anything you're missing, but
it can still be done.

If you're a vegetarian for religious reasons, then that's of course your
business and I wouldn't try to talk you out of that. On the other hand,
if it's coming from a cruelty-to-animals angle based on what you've
learned about factory farms (and trust me, that stuff sickens me too, as
a dedicated carnivore), then you might want to look into
locally-produced "pasture-raised" meat. It's still possible in this
country to get meat from animals that were raised in a pleasant,
natural, outdoor environment and slaughtered in as humane and clean a
way as possible, but you'll have to do the leg-work yourself; the USDA
thinks that's just silly hippie stuff.

On the other other hand, if you're doing it because you think it's
healthier, well, that's just wrong; but you probably wouldn't be here in
the first place if you thought that.

--
Aaron -- 285/254/200 -- aaron.baugher.biz

Susan said:

AKA gray asphalt said:

I'm a vegatarian, so I guess there is nothing here for me?

Well, it certainly puts you in a minority, but vegetarians low carbing
for their health have participated here before ...

There are good and bad reasons for being a vegetarian. For
your health is a bad reason as non-vegetarian low carbing is
more healthy than any of the options used by folks before they
started for-health vegetarianism. If you started for your health
I say switch to a more healthy way still and that's the center
of low carbing. On the other hand doing it for religious or
moral motivations is a good reason that should be adhered to.
IMNSHO.

Quoted message said:

Tempeh, tofu, eggs, cheese, protein shakes can all help a lot, and
choosing vegetable carbs instead of starchy ones.

Since the carb/protein/fat ratios of low carbing call for less carb
and more fat that effects what plants sources need to be stressed.

Eggs and cheese will give a lacto-ovo-veg all the protein they
need and then some. Eggs have even used the logo "Nature's
most nearly perfect food" based on their amino acid ratios.
So for a lacto-ovo-veg it should be very easy to practice low
carb even at Atkins Induction levels.

A vegan trying to get to Atkins Induction levels of carb/protein/fat
ratios will end up using tempeh and tofu as the largest protein
sources and lots of assorted vegetable source oils for the high
fat percentage of Induction. For a vegan Atkins Induction will be
very boring, but each and every week starting day 15 gives 5
grams more of net carbs gets traded for the same total calories
of fat so it gets gradually less boring.

Were I a vegan I would definitely want to attempt low fat plan
types for 6+ months and only switch to low carb if I failed at that
attempt.

"Aaron Baugher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

AKA gray asphalt said:

I'm a vegatarian, so I guess there is nothing here for me?

It's possible to be vegetarian and low-carb; "Protein Power" has a
section on it. I suppose it depends on how strict a vegetarian you are.
If you'll eat eggs, dairy, and/or fish, that'll make it a lot easier.
If you won't eat any of those, you'll probably be eating a lot of tofu
and nuts and taking supplements to replace anything you're missing, but
it can still be done.

If you're a vegetarian for religious reasons, then that's of course your
business and I wouldn't try to talk you out of that. On the other hand,
if it's coming from a cruelty-to-animals angle based on what you've
learned about factory farms (and trust me, that stuff sickens me too, as
a dedicated carnivore), then you might want to look into
locally-produced "pasture-raised" meat. It's still possible in this
country to get meat from animals that were raised in a pleasant,
natural, outdoor environment and slaughtered in as humane and clean a
way as possible, but you'll have to do the leg-work yourself; the USDA
thinks that's just silly hippie stuff.

On the other other hand, if you're doing it because you think it's
healthier, well, that's just wrong; but you probably wouldn't be here in
the first place if you thought that.

--
Aaron -- 285/254/200 -- aaron.baugher.biz

I just like animals. I was getting by with eating chicken until a friend
dropped
off a few for us to take care of. They became pets. I guess I have a complex
or something. If I have about a talking vegetable or fruit I may have to go
on
a water diet. : -)

"Aaron Baugher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

AKA gray asphalt said:

I'm a vegatarian, so I guess there is nothing here for me?

It's possible to be vegetarian and low-carb; "Protein Power" has a
section on it. I suppose it depends on how strict a vegetarian you are.
If you'll eat eggs, dairy, and/or fish, that'll make it a lot easier.
If you won't eat any of those, you'll probably be eating a lot of tofu
and nuts and taking supplements to replace anything you're missing, but
it can still be done.

If you're a vegetarian for religious reasons, then that's of course your
business and I wouldn't try to talk you out of that. On the other hand,
if it's coming from a cruelty-to-animals angle based on what you've
learned about factory farms (and trust me, that stuff sickens me too, as
a dedicated carnivore), then you might want to look into
locally-produced "pasture-raised" meat. It's still possible in this
country to get meat from animals that were raised in a pleasant,
natural, outdoor environment and slaughtered in as humane and clean a
way as possible, but you'll have to do the leg-work yourself; the USDA
thinks that's just silly hippie stuff.

On the other other hand, if you're doing it because you think it's
healthier, well, that's just wrong; but you probably wouldn't be here in
the first place if you thought that.

--
Aaron -- 285/254/200 -- aaron.baugher.biz

I just like animals. I was getting by with eating chicken until a friend
dropped
off a few for us to take care of. They became pets. I guess I have a complex
or something. If I have about a talking vegetable or fruit I may have to go
on
a water diet. : -)

"Aaron Baugher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

AKA gray asphalt said:

I'm a vegatarian, so I guess there is nothing here for me?

It's possible to be vegetarian and low-carb; "Protein Power" has a
section on it. I suppose it depends on how strict a vegetarian you are.
If you'll eat eggs, dairy, and/or fish, that'll make it a lot easier.
If you won't eat any of those, you'll probably be eating a lot of tofu
and nuts and taking supplements to replace anything you're missing, but
it can still be done.

If you're a vegetarian for religious reasons, then that's of course your
business and I wouldn't try to talk you out of that. On the other hand,
if it's coming from a cruelty-to-animals angle based on what you've
learned about factory farms (and trust me, that stuff sickens me too, as
a dedicated carnivore), then you might want to look into
locally-produced "pasture-raised" meat. It's still possible in this
country to get meat from animals that were raised in a pleasant,
natural, outdoor environment and slaughtered in as humane and clean a
way as possible, but you'll have to do the leg-work yourself; the USDA
thinks that's just silly hippie stuff.

On the other other hand, if you're doing it because you think it's
healthier, well, that's just wrong; but you probably wouldn't be here in
the first place if you thought that.

--
Aaron -- 285/254/200 -- aaron.baugher.biz

I just like animals. I was getting by with eating chicken until a friend
dropped
off a few for us to take care of. They became pets. I guess I have a complex
or something. If I have about a talking vegetable or fruit I may have to go
on
a water diet. : -)

"Aaron Baugher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

AKA gray asphalt said:

I'm a vegatarian, so I guess there is nothing here for me?

It's possible to be vegetarian and low-carb; "Protein Power" has a
section on it. I suppose it depends on how strict a vegetarian you are.
If you'll eat eggs, dairy, and/or fish, that'll make it a lot easier.
If you won't eat any of those, you'll probably be eating a lot of tofu
and nuts and taking supplements to replace anything you're missing, but
it can still be done.

If you're a vegetarian for religious reasons, then that's of course your
business and I wouldn't try to talk you out of that. On the other hand,
if it's coming from a cruelty-to-animals angle based on what you've
learned about factory farms (and trust me, that stuff sickens me too, as
a dedicated carnivore), then you might want to look into
locally-produced "pasture-raised" meat. It's still possible in this
country to get meat from animals that were raised in a pleasant,
natural, outdoor environment and slaughtered in as humane and clean a
way as possible, but you'll have to do the leg-work yourself; the USDA
thinks that's just silly hippie stuff.

On the other other hand, if you're doing it because you think it's
healthier, well, that's just wrong; but you probably wouldn't be here in
the first place if you thought that.

--
Aaron -- 285/254/200 -- aaron.baugher.biz

I just like animals. I was getting by with eating chicken until a friend
dropped
off a few for us to take care of. They became pets. I guess I have a complex
or something. If I have about a talking vegetable or fruit I may have to go
on
a water diet. : -)