"Bill Z." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
"Edward Dolan" <[email hidden]> writes:
Wrong (and even the most fundamentalist/extreme Muslims aren't doing that either - its for other reasons that a few small groups are killing people).
They are committing acts of terror. Do you even know what it is to kill innocents to further a political agenda? What is motivating them to do it is their religious faith.
"Bill Z." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Edward Dolan said:
"Bill Z." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > "Edward Dolan" <[email hidden]> writes: > > You need to learn something about the real world.
I get all my learning from Fox News these days. It is the only cable news channel that is balanced and fair.
Dolan is an idiot.
Fox News is on 24 hours a day and has some of the best commentators in the business (the very best by the way is Bill O'Reilly, another gentleman of Irish extraction like myself - and the only Bill I have ever heard of who is not an idiot).
"Bill Z." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Edward Dolan said:
"Bill Z." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > "Edward Dolan" <[email hidden]> writes: > >> "Bill Z." <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> news:[email hidden]... >> > "Edward Dolan" <[email hidden]> writes: >> > >> > You need to learn something about the real world. >> >> I get all my learning from Fox News these days. It is the only cable >> news >> channel that is balanced and fair. > > Dolan is an idiot.
Fox News is on 24 hours a day and has some of the best commentators in the business (the very best by the way is Bill O'Reilly, another gentleman of Irish extraction like myself - and the only Bill I have ever heard of who is not an idiot).
Dolan, you are an idiot.
Yeah, but we both know that is not true, don't we.
No, Dolan, you are truly an idiot. I'm going to ignore the rest of your rants that my newsreader just found, as you clearly just want attention.
"Bill Z." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > "Edward Dolan" <[email hidden]> writes: > > Wrong (and even the most fundamentalist/extreme Muslims aren't > doing that either - its for other reasons that a few small groups > are killing people). They are committing acts of terror. Do you even know what it is to kill innocents to further a political agenda?
George W. Bush, [censored] Cheney, Don Rumsfeld, and Richard Perl sure do. They've killed at least 75,000 innocent Iraqi civilians....
That number has to be about an order of magnitude too low. It should also be mentioned that about 4 million Iraqi refugees have been created by the Cheney/Bush led conquest of Iraq - equivalent to creating more than 35 million refugees in the US.
-- Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia "Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter
> "Bill Z." <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... >> "Edward Dolan" <[email hidden]> writes: >> >> Wrong (and even the most fundamentalist/extreme Muslims aren't >> doing that either - its for other reasons that a few small groups >> are killing people). > They are committing acts of terror. Do you even know what it is to > kill innocents to further a political agenda?
George W. Bush, [censored] Cheney, Don Rumsfeld, and Richard Perl sure do. They've killed at least 75,000 innocent Iraqi civilians....
That number has to be about an order of magnitude too low. It should also be mentioned that about 4 million Iraqi refugees have been created by the Cheney/Bush led conquest of Iraq - equivalent to creating more than 35 million refugees in the US.
www.iraqbodycount.org discusses their methodology, which is to count deaths they believe can be objectively confirmed. President Bush has, on occasion, cited the numbers on the web site without specifically referencing it.
In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Bill Z.) wrote:
> "Edward Dolan" <[email hidden]> writes: > >> "Bill Z." <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> news:[email hidden]... >>> "Edward Dolan" <[email hidden]> writes: >>> >>> Wrong (and even the most fundamentalist/extreme Muslims aren't >>> doing that either - its for other reasons that a few small groups >>> are killing people). >> They are committing acts of terror. Do you even know what it is to >> kill innocents to further a political agenda? George W. Bush, [censored] Cheney, Don Rumsfeld, and Richard Perl sure do. They've killed at least 75,000 innocent Iraqi civilians....
That number has to be about an order of magnitude too low. It should also be mentioned that about 4 million Iraqi refugees have been created by the Cheney/Bush led conquest of Iraq - equivalent to creating more than 35 million refugees in the US.
www.iraqbodycount.org discusses their methodology, which is to count deaths they believe can be objectively confirmed. President Bush has, on occasion, cited the numbers on the web site without specifically referencing it.
The methodology used in the study published by the Lancet is well accepted, and by that standard, one million excess deaths in Iraq would not be an unreasonable estimate.
-- Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia "Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter
George W. Bush, [censored] Cheney, Don Rumsfeld, and Richard Perl sure do.
Quoted message said:
They've killed at least 75,000 innocent Iraqi civilians....
That number has to be about an order of magnitude too low. It should also be mentioned that about 4 million Iraqi refugees have been created by the Cheney/Bush led conquest of Iraq - equivalent to creating more than 35 million refugees in the US.
www.iraqbodycount.org discusses their methodology, which is to count deaths they believe can be objectively confirmed. President Bush has, on occasion, cited the numbers on the web site without specifically referencing it.
That web site claims to measure Iraqi deaths due to violence, not deaths due to inadequate health care, bad water, etc., all due to the loss of infrastructure that occurs during a war.
Tim McNamara wrote: > In article <[email hidden]>, > [email hidden] (Bill Z.) wrote: > >> "Edward Dolan" <[email hidden]> writes: >> >>> "Bill Z." <[email hidden]> wrote in message >>> news:[email hidden]... >>>> "Edward Dolan" <[email hidden]> writes: >>>> >>>> Wrong (and even the most fundamentalist/extreme Muslims aren't >>>> doing that either - its for other reasons that a few small >>>> groups are killing people). >>> They are committing acts of terror. Do you even know what it is >>> to kill innocents to further a political agenda? > George W. Bush, [censored] Cheney, Don Rumsfeld, and Richard Perl sure > do. They've killed at least 75,000 innocent Iraqi civilians.... That number has to be about an order of magnitude too low. It should also be mentioned that about 4 million Iraqi refugees have been created by the Cheney/Bush led conquest of Iraq - equivalent to creating more than 35 million refugees in the US.
www.iraqbodycount.org discusses their methodology, which is to count deaths they believe can be objectively confirmed. President Bush has, on occasion, cited the numbers on the web site without specifically referencing it.
The methodology used in the study published by the Lancet is well accepted, and by that standard, one million excess deaths in Iraq would not be an unreasonable estimate.
The difference (in part) is that Lancet measured all deaths that were caused by the war and aftermath, whereas the web site mentioned in the post you replied to measured only the deaths caused directly by violence.
BTW, the number of U.S. deaths is understated too - they consider a soldier to have died in Iraq if he expires in Iraq. Medical care has gotten good enough that they can keep a many fatally injured soldiers alive long enough to expire after being taken outside of Iraq for treatment. If one dies on the plane after it has left Iraqi airspace, that one is not counted as having died in Iraq.
In article <[email hidden]>, Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> wrote:
> Tim McNamara wrote: >> In article <[email hidden]>, >> [email hidden] (Bill Z.) wrote: >> >>> "Edward Dolan" <[email hidden]> writes: >>> >>>> "Bill Z." <[email hidden]> wrote in message >>>> news:[email hidden]... >>>>> "Edward Dolan" <[email hidden]> writes: >>>>> >>>>> Wrong (and even the most fundamentalist/extreme Muslims aren't >>>>> doing that either - its for other reasons that a few small >>>>> groups are killing people). >>>> They are committing acts of terror. Do you even know what it is >>>> to kill innocents to further a political agenda? >> George W. Bush, [censored] Cheney, Don Rumsfeld, and Richard Perl sure >> do. They've killed at least 75,000 innocent Iraqi civilians.... > That number has to be about an order of magnitude too low. It > should also be mentioned that about 4 million Iraqi refugees have > been created by the Cheney/Bush led conquest of Iraq - equivalent > to creating more than 35 million refugees in the US. www.iraqbodycount.org discusses their methodology, which is to count deaths they believe can be objectively confirmed. President Bush has, on occasion, cited the numbers on the web site without specifically referencing it.
The methodology used in the study published by the Lancet is well accepted, and by that standard, one million excess deaths in Iraq would not be an unreasonable estimate.
The difference (in part) is that Lancet measured all deaths that were caused by the war and aftermath, whereas the web site mentioned in the post you replied to measured only the deaths caused directly by violence.
BTW, the number of U.S. deaths is understated too - they consider a soldier to have died in Iraq if he expires in Iraq. Medical care has gotten good enough that they can keep a many fatally injured soldiers alive long enough to expire after being taken outside of Iraq for treatment. If one dies on the plane after it has left Iraqi airspace, that one is not counted as having died in Iraq.
Not to mention the deaths of mercenaries. When the mercenaries are counted, the size of the Iraq occupation force increases to approximately three hundred thousand.
-- Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia "Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter
George W. Bush, [censored] Cheney, Don Rumsfeld, and Richard Perl sure do. > They've killed at least 75,000 innocent Iraqi civilians.... That number has to be about an order of magnitude too low. It should also be mentioned that about 4 million Iraqi refugees have been created by the Cheney/Bush led conquest of Iraq - equivalent to creating more than 35 million refugees in the US.
www.iraqbodycount.org discusses their methodology, which is to count deaths they believe can be objectively confirmed. President Bush has, on occasion, cited the numbers on the web site without specifically referencing it.
That web site claims to measure Iraqi deaths due to violence, not deaths due to inadequate health care, bad water, etc., all due to the loss of infrastructure that occurs during a war.
To be fair, Clinton killed hundred of thousands of innocent Iraqis this way, since he insisted on maintaining sanctions that did not allow Iraq to rebuild critical infrastructure, such as water and wastewater treatment facilities. Of course, these facilities were deliberately (the Pentagon admits to it) and illegally targeted by the US under Bush I.
-- Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia "Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter
"Bill Z." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> writes:
BTW, the number of U.S. deaths is understated too - they consider a soldier to have died in Iraq if he expires in Iraq. Medical care has gotten good enough that they can keep a many fatally injured soldiers alive long enough to expire after being taken outside of Iraq for treatment. If one dies on the plane after it has left Iraqi airspace, that one is not counted as having died in Iraq.
American casualties in Iraq have been minimal. Compared to most preceding wars that the US has ever engaged in the casualties are hardly worth mentioning. Both WWI and WWII had single battles which resulted in many times more casualties.
The issue is not the absolute numbers but that the government is misleading the American public about what is actually going on.
"Bill Z." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Edward Dolan said:
American casualties in Iraq have been minimal. Compared to most preceding wars that the US has ever engaged in the casualties are hardly worth mentioning. Both WWI and WWII had single battles which resulted in many times more casualties.
[At this point Bill Z should have indicated that he had snipped the rest of my message.]
Nonsense - what followed was a mindless rant that had nothing at all to do with the part I quoted.
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The issue is not the absolute numbers but that the government is misleading the American public about what is actually going on.
The government is under no obligation to tell you what you want to hear. The information is all there for anyone to look it up. Most of us don't much care about the details in any event. All we want is the big picture and that is what our government generously gives us.
As citizens who pay for this government, we have every right to insist that it will tell us the truth.
"Bill Z." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Edward Dolan said:
"Bill Z." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > "Edward Dolan" <[email hidden]> writes: >> American casualties in Iraq have been minimal. Compared to most >> preceding >> wars that the US has ever engaged in the casualties are hardly worth >> mentioning. Both WWI and WWII had single battles which resulted in >> many >> times more casualties.
[At this point Bill Z should have indicated that he had snipped the rest of my message.]
Nonsense - what followed was a mindless rant that had nothing at all to do with the part I quoted.
That doesn't matter, you need to indicate that you have snipped. Follow my example if you do not know how to do it.
Dolan, you are an idiot. Read the usenet guidelines.
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As citizens who pay for this government, we have every right to insist that it will tell us the truth.
The truth is there for the getting, but the government need not make it easy for you. Don't be so lazy, do your own research.
Wrong. When they put out numbers, I shouldn't have to cross check them or read the fine print.
On 04 Dec 2007 08:29:39 -0800, [email hidden] (Bill Z.)
Quoted message said:
Edward Dolan said:
"Bill Z." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
"Edward Dolan" <[email hidden]> writes:
> "Bill Z." <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > "Edward Dolan" <[email hidden]> writes: > > > >> "Bill Z." <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >> news:[email hidden]... > >> > "Edward Dolan" <[email hidden]> writes: > >> > > >> > You need to learn something about the real world. > >> > >> I get all my learning from Fox News these days. It is the only cable > >> news > >> channel that is balanced and fair. > > > > Dolan is an idiot. > > Fox News is on 24 hours a day and has some of the best commentators in > the > business (the very best by the way is Bill O'Reilly, another gentleman of > Irish extraction like myself - and the only Bill I have ever heard of who > is > not an idiot).
Dolan, you are an idiot.
Yeah, but we both know that is not true, don't we.
No, Dolan, you are truly an idiot.
No, but YOU are an incorrigible LIAR.
I'm going to ignore the rest of
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your rants that my newsreader just found, as you clearly just want attention.
-- I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!
"Bill Z." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Edward Dolan said:
> Nonsense - what followed was a mindless rant that had nothing at all > to do with the part I quoted.
That doesn't matter, you need to indicate that you have snipped. Follow my example if you do not know how to do it.
Dolan, you are an idiot. Read the usenet guidelines.
This has nothing to do with Usenet and everything to do with English Composition 101. I don't think you understand what a paragraph is about as opposed to a sentence or a phrase. Where the hell did you get your education? Your mind is untrained. Even Bill S (the kill-filer) noticed that much about you!
F___ off. The paragraph I snipped was simply one of your mindless, more or less insulting, rants. It had nothing to do with anything.
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Wrong. When they put out numbers, I shouldn't have to cross check them or read the fine print.
Oh yes you should! Citizenship has its requirements just like anything else.
Wrong - as a citizen, I have every right to demand that of my government. BTW, a smart manager would fire employees who lie about the facts - lying is counterproductive as bad decisions are made as a result. I'll "fire" politicians who lie about the facts too (facts regarding government business, not their sex lives), to the extent of a single vote.
