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Slime Presta tubes

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Cycling Equipment
Published
4 December 2007
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6 December 2007
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meb
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  1. On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 17:36:35 -0700, [email hidden] may have

    Quoted message said:

    One word: swans.

    Cheers,

    B. Wooster

    Ah, yes. I had forgotten those. I fondly recall watching a fool at
    Yellowstone get much too close to some of theirs. He'd have been
    safer feeding the bears, I think. (Watching Stupid People Tricks at
    Yellowstone was often as entertaining as watching the wildlife.)

    --
    My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
    Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
    Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

  2. On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 17:44:07 -0700, [email hidden] may have

    Quoted message said:

    On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:12:00 -0500, "(PeteCresswell)" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    Per [email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    The tubes all have numerous patches. They take their turn in my tires
    as they cycle through this box and my frame bag:

    http://i24.tinypic.com/de5nao.jpg

    I would also note the seldom-mentioned advantage of numerous
    patches: additional puncture resistance.... -)

    Dear Pete,

    On the one hand, I'm still waiting for a puncture in a patch.

    That is, patches offer little protection, since eight patches cover
    less than 10% of a tube.

    On the other hand, I'm still waiting for a puncture in a patch.

    That is, maybe I haven't seen a punctured patch because they work so
    well as extra armor.

    Heh. Many years ago, when I first became acquainted with the
    tube-puncturing ability of bubbly rust on the inside of an EA3 rim, I
    had a patch get holed by exactly that mechanism. This was, in fact,
    the incident that taught me to look closely and carefully for that
    malady. I'd been in a hurry when the tire went flat, and I simply
    patched the tube and poked it back in; I didn't even pull the rear
    wheel off in the process. (The bike had saddle baskets and a 3-speed
    hub.) A bit over a week later, the tire was flat once more, and I had
    more time to look at it. When I saw that the hole was in the patch,
    and nearly lined up with the original hole, I got suspicious. The
    next day, I relaced my very first wheel. (We will not discuss how
    long it took for me to get it trued.)

    --
    My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
    Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
    Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

  3. [email hidden] wrote in news:5fhel3pg7sgh3ktgovlv01s3at1147ssel@
    4ax.com:

    Quoted message said:

    It does seem logical that water would evaporate and escape from the
    tube, just as air does, but it doesn't.

    Gases like N2, O2, and CO2 are soluble in rubber, with O2 escaping
    2.5~4 times as fast as N2 and CO2 escaping about 16 times as fast as
    N2. It's a chemical process, not a simple matter of the rubber acting
    as a physical sieve.

    Water doesn't evaporate appreciably from a rubber inner tube. If
    anything, the high pressure inhibits the liquid water from turning to
    gas. An inner tube filled with water will be full of water next year.
    A rubber lining is basically water-proof.

    Stan's tire sealant is known to dry up and is explicitly stated to
    require re-filling every few months. His stuff uses volatile liquids
    that are soluble through rubber.

    Slime doesn't seem to do that.

    You can check your punctured Slime tube by grabbing the end of the
    tube on the far side from the puncture and stripping it toward the
    tiny hole, forcing the Slime toward the puncture. You should feel and
    hear the gooshy mess moving and gurgling through the tube and see a
    drop of green appear from the hole.

    If it does, all is as well as it can be. The Slime is unlikely to seal
    the hole in an exposed and inflated inner tube. It works (when it
    does) when the pinhole in the tube is flattened against the inside of
    a tire--the longer the tiny tunnel through the tube and rubber, the
    more likely the Slime is to clog it.

    You may be simply expecting too much from your Slime tubes. Slime
    works about half the time for me on the pinpricks from goathead
    thorns, enough that I find it useful. Sometimes it seals impressive
    holes from things like staples, too, but usually not.

    Slime certainly doesn't seal worth a damn when I'm patching the bare
    tube. When I stretch the tube around the smooth round arm of a bench
    vise, I have to strip the Slime away from the hole until no more green
    appears and I can sandpaper the area for patching without spreading
    more Slime on the rubber.

    Well, perhaps Slime isn't water based. I read it is glycol based, but a
    search of their website did not reveal what its constituents are. The
    MSDS only said it was non-toxic. Clearly it does degrade, as Slime only
    guarantees it for 2 years in a tube. The tubes that would not seal for me
    were inside tires that repeatedly went flat inspite of spinning the
    tires, putting the leak at the bottom, etc. I have read accounts of
    others that stated it doesn't seal after so many years. If I can find the
    20" tube that may still be in my garage, I'll cut it open to see if it's
    dried up.

    --
    Larry Dickman <[email hidden]>

  4. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >> I've never seen such a valve stem. Would you please post a picture
    >> or give a link to a web site that shows one?

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > I don't have any way of posting a picture, however I have some in
    > the parts bin. They came in long and short varieties and have been
    > around for at least 20 years that I have knowledge of and probably
    > much longer. The base of the valve is flared outward making a wide
    > base. It passes through a valve sized hole via stretching the tube.
    > A washer is passed over the valve, and a thin nut is tightened, thus
    > squishing the tube between two flat surfaces (actually the flare
    > continued past a 90 degree angle creating a restrained less squished
    > volume between the two surfaces). Never leaks!

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    That isn't a removable valve core but a removable stem, the kind with
    which most latex tubes are equipped.


    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/tube-failure.html

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > I believe these valves were also sold separate from tubes, at any
    > rate I've seen a couple of bike shops with them - perhaps
    > harvesting from old tubes. I have some recollection that some 406
    > Air B tubes I bought had them installed. And I've swapped valve
    > lengths on tubes but I don't remember the brand.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    They are left over from a blown out latex tube. I'm looking for the
    removable valve core that isn't like the one shown earlier.

    Quoted message said:
    Andrew Muzi not quite helpfully said:

    Here's another shot:
    http://www.yellowjersey.org/NUVALVE.JPG
    and one more:
    http://www.yellowjersey.org/TUFO4216.JPG
    from:
    http://www.yellowjersey.org/tufo.html

    Quoted message said:

    The original claim was that there was a stem that separated lower down
    and revealed a valve core, in contrast to a valve stem removable from
    the inner tube. As you see, I am aware of mechanically attached valve
    stems, as you picture shows.

    Filling a tube with slime without being able to screw the dispenser
    onto a valve stem is a hassle, as is removing the stem.

    You are correct.
    None of the previous photos showed the valve _stem_ for a removable
    Presta valve. Try this:
    http://www.yellowjersey.org/PV2PART.JPG
    --
    Andrew Muzi
    www.yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971

  5. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I may or may not have an unslimed long-stem Presta tube in the
    parts pile with a base-demount design; I'll check.

    Quoted message said:
    Where's the hatrack said:

    The parts pile and the spares bags yielded no samples. Apparently,
    I either put them into tires that are still in service (or went away
    with a bike) or I pitched them after one failure too many. The ones
    in question were somewhat similar to a Vredestein long-stem, except
    the base was shorter and the part that screwed into it had the
    actual valve at the tube end of the demountable stem portion. I
    recall trying first to remove the core, and what I thought was an
    extension came off instead; upon closer examination, I noted that
    the core didn't come out; the valve seat was at the bottom of the
    "extension" tube. I don't recall looking for a brand name on the
    tubes, not that there's always one to find.

    Quoted message said:

    Someone in the bicycle business must have seen one of these or at
    least the champion of web searchers can find a picture. This is
    getting curiouser and curiouser.

    I did just upload a photo of the complete assembly , both removable core
    and now the internally-threaded Presta stem itself:
    http://www.yellowjersey.org/PV2PART.JPG

    As Werehatrack noted, these are useful not only with Slime but also for
    deep-section rims where a special extender seats in the valve stem and
    the actual valve is moved to the outside. Previous simple extenders did
    not allow the valve core to be locked closed.

    AFAIK Tufo pioneered these alternate-location Presta extenders, although
    removable core Presta valves have been around since at least the 1980s.
    --
    Andrew Muzi
    www.yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971

  6. [email hidden said:

    "]On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 20:44:59 +1100, meb

    Quoted message said:


    I tried pumping up a Presta valve Slime tube wheelset and had no
    success.
    These are factory Slime Presta tubes.

    I pumped these up a year and a half ago, now nogo.
    Wondering if perhaps the Slime has clogged the Presta.
    Anyone know if this becomes an issue with Presta tubes?

    If that is what has happened, is there a remedy such as a chemical or
    continued pressure at the valve or might that create other problems?

    Dear Meb,

    A stuck Presta valve isn't unusual with Slime tubes. Usually you just
    push down with your thumb and it breaks free.

    If that doesn't work, unscrew the valve assembly with pliers:

    http://i15.tinypic.com/8g8ps2b.jpg

    There are two tiny flats where the valve cap threads on. You can see
    one flat on the silver section near the normal knurled brass nut.
    Everything unscrews in the same direction--valve cap, Presta nut, and
    the whole assembly.

    The guts of the valve may be gummed or clogged with little white
    fibers. You can pull the fibers out with your fingernails, water will
    dissolve the Slime, and a quick huff-and-puff will blow any Slime out
    of the valve stem and back into the tube.

    Cheers,

    Carl Fogel

    I unscrewed the front wheel valve and got the fibers off the valve, washed it, poked a wire in the open brass valve base, put a little water in it, pump air in it (that gave me quite a splash of Slime), reinserted the core and it worked fine. It appears there is little drying out of the Slime and old Slime can splatter quite easily, and the adding of water is unnecessary in most instances.

    The rear was noticeably much more gummed up and the same process did not succeed on the first try. I'm going to remove the tube from the wheel and see if there are other issues not apparent.
    Since I have a plurality of road bikes with flat rears and plenty of rideable fronts, I've elected recumbents and mountain bikes rather than change tubes thus far.

    I managed to pinch flat a recumbent front last night when detouring into an unfamiliar area due to construction barricades on the bike trail. Since I was only half a mile from a Target, I elected to buy one of their brand sealant tires rather than patch mine in freezing temperatures. No idea if this a water based sealant.

  7. On Thu, 06 Dec 2007 00:29:31 -0600, A Muzi <[email hidden]> may

    have said:

    and now the internally-threaded Presta stem itself:
    http://www.yellowjersey.org/PV2PART.JPG

    As Werehatrack noted, these are useful not only with Slime but also for
    deep-section rims where a special extender seats in the valve stem and
    the actual valve is moved to the outside. Previous simple extenders did
    not allow the valve core to be locked closed.

    Apparently, the tubes that I ran across were not exactly like that.
    The base was very much like what's in that photo, though shorter; the
    extension was more like a stem with a non-removable presta, and it
    screwed into the short base. If I am recalling correctly, the bike
    from which I removed them would have been made around 1990, and they
    probably weren't original equipment. I'm wondering if these were just
    an early long-stem tube design that got slimed post-factory. OTOH,
    it's interesting that they could have the slime installed without
    getting the goo anywhere near the valve, and without having to screw
    the valve core back in past the goo. Of course, that's true for the
    long-stem tubes that employ a two-piece construction like the
    Vredestiens I keep around, too.

    Quoted message said:

    AFAIK Tufo pioneered these alternate-location Presta extenders, although
    removable core Presta valves have been around since at least the 1980s.

    --
    My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
    Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
    Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

  8. Quoted message said:
    Where's the hatrack said:
    Quoted message said:

    >> A stuck Presta valve isn't unusual with Slime tubes. Usually you
    >> just push down with your thumb and it breaks free.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >> If that doesn't work, unscrew the valve assembly with pliers:

    http://i15.tinypic.com/8g8ps2b.jpg

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > Not all Presta valves come apart this way, and trying this on some
    > of them will distort the valve body enough that the stem will be
    > deflected, preventing the valve from being able to seal
    > thereafter. (I discovered this experimentally by ruining one of
    > my own, and confirmed it on a sample of junked tubes from a shop's
    > trash bin.)

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    If it's full of slime, it most likely has a removable valve core.

    Quoted message said:

    The only slimed Prestas of my direct experience unscrewed at the
    base, not at the top. They had extra-long stems. The valve on
    those was not separable from the body. I don't know if they were
    "factory Slimed", but the goo inside was the color and consistency
    of the genuine Slime product. The results I obtained from them are
    part of the reason that I have not bought any subsequently.

    I've never seen such a valve stem. Would you please post a picture or
    give a link to a web site that shows one?

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    How do you put slime in a Presta valved tube?

    Quoted message said:

    Well, since you ask, I don't.

    So I should have asked, how one puts slime in a Presta valved tube?

    Jobst Brandt

    Dear Jobst,

    Lo, and behold! It turns out that the ship can be put in the bottle:

    http://www.slimesealant.com/index.php?p=faq#answer_1101_loc

    It's far too much work, but that's how Slime can be put in an ordinary
    Presta valve tube--without cutting a hole in the tube.

    Cheers,

    Carl Fogel

  9. Andrew Muzi said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >>> I've never seen such a valve stem. Would you please post a
    >>> picture or give a link to a web site that shows one?

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >> I don't have any way of posting a picture, however I have some
    >> in the parts bin. They came in long and short varieties and
    >> have been around for at least 20 years that I have knowledge of
    >> and probably much longer. The base of the valve is flared
    >> outward making a wide base. It passes through a valve sized
    >> hole via stretching the tube. A washer is passed over the
    >> valve, and a thin nut is tightened, thus squishing the tube
    >> between two flat surfaces (actually the flare continued past a
    >> 90 degree angle creating a restrained less squished volume
    >> between the two surfaces). Never leaks!

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > That isn't a removable valve core but a removable stem, the kind
    > with which most latex tubes are equipped.

    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/tube-failure.html

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >> I believe these valves were also sold separate from tubes, at
    >> any rate I've seen a couple of bike shops with them - perhaps
    >> harvesting from old tubes. I have some recollection that some
    >> 406 Air B tubes I bought had them installed. And I've swapped
    >> valve lengths on tubes but I don't remember the brand.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > They are left over from a blown out latex tube. I'm looking for the
    > removable valve core that isn't like the one shown earlier.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Here's another shot:

    http://www.yellowjersey.org/NUVALVE.JPG

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    and one more:

    http://www.yellowjersey.org/TUFO4216.JPG

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    from:

    http://www.yellowjersey.org/tufo.html

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    The original claim was that there was a stem that separated lower down
    and revealed a valve core, in contrast to a valve stem removable from
    the inner tube. As you see, I am aware of mechanically attached valve
    stems, as you picture shows.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Filling a tube with slime without being able to screw the dispenser
    onto a valve stem is a hassle, as is removing the stem.

    Quoted message said:

    You are correct.

    Quoted message said:

    None of the previous photos showed the valve _stem_ for a removable
    Presta valve. Try this:

    http://www.yellowjersey.org/PV2PART.JPG

    What did you think this picture showed of it wasn't a removable Presta
    valve? I'm waiting for the picture of the stem that separates near
    its root to expose the valve core. That is what I have not seen.
    I've seen plenty of separable Presta valve cores and stems as the
    pictures I took of them show.

    Jobst Brandt

  10. On Thu, 06 Dec 2007 00:08:56 -0700, [email hidden] may have

    Quoted message said:

    Lo, and behold! It turns out that the ship can be put in the bottle:

    http://www.slimesealant.com/index.php?p=faq#answer_1101_loc

    It's far too much work, but that's how Slime can be put in an ordinary
    Presta valve tube--without cutting a hole in the tube.

    It's not only far too much work, but often it will not work at all.
    The end of the valve rod is mashed to keep the nut from being
    unscrewed. In forcing the nut off over that end, the threads are
    likely to be damaged; I know, I did that on a couple of them when I
    was bored one afternoon while waiting for the compressor to pump up.
    Once the nut is off, it is not by any means a given that it will go
    back on...or that, if it does, it will tighten down properly.

    IMO, Slime is only reliably usable on a Presta tube when the valve
    core (in whatever form it may take) or valve stem extension (new
    style) can be removed to allow installing the Slime without
    compromising the valve.

    --
    My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
    Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
    Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

  11. Werehatrack said:

    On Thu, 06 Dec 2007 00:08:56 -0700, [email hidden] may have

    Quoted message said:

    Lo, and behold! It turns out that the ship can be put in the bottle:

    http://www.slimesealant.com/index.php?p=faq#answer_1101_loc

    It's far too much work, but that's how Slime can be put in an ordinary
    Presta valve tube--without cutting a hole in the tube.

    It's not only far too much work, but often it will not work at all.
    The end of the valve rod is mashed to keep the nut from being
    unscrewed. In forcing the nut off over that end, the threads are
    likely to be damaged; I know, I did that on a couple of them when I
    was bored one afternoon while waiting for the compressor to pump up.
    Once the nut is off, it is not by any means a given that it will go
    back on...or that, if it does, it will tighten down properly.

    IMO, Slime is only reliably usable on a Presta tube when the valve
    core (in whatever form it may take) or valve stem extension (new
    style) can be removed to allow installing the Slime without
    compromising the valve.

    Dear Werehatrack,

    A year or two ago, even more bored, I clipped the mashed end off a
    Presta valve rod (a removable version from a Slime tube), just to see
    if there was anything inside that I ought to know about. The hidden
    part of the rod turns out to be impressively flattened, possibly to
    keep it straight in the bore.

    A quick swipe or two with a file to smooth the end, and it's been
    sitting in my collection of little parts to fiddle with while
    pondering the computer screen.

    Here it is, its rod slightly bent and its rubber seal missing:

    http://i6.tinypic.com/6lux7jd.jpg

    I agree that a removable core is the only really sensible way to fill
    a presta tube with Slime--and I leave it to the factory.

    Cheers,

    Carl Fogel

  12. http://www.chemistryland.com/CHM107Lab/Lab7/Slime/SlimeDroolGreen.jpg

    -tom

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